Justa Guy test Justa Guy Justa Guy Hi Alan magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Yay, nicely done. What's the secret? Justa Guy Justa Guy Congrats, you've made it to the current MFMP Chat Window! You may want to actually view the video at this link at the same time, as this video is just a relay (with a net 40 second delay). Lee Shurie Lee Shurie @Justa Guy: Nice! Thanks. Justa Guy Justa Guy /watch?v=sS4z2zfCOLI Robertosiquieros Robertosiquieros I'm not getting any audio .. is that normal? Justa Guy Justa Guy yes Justa Guy Justa Guy no audio Justa Guy Justa Guy You may want to view the non-dalyed video and any possible audio from the link (using this one for chat): /watch?v=sS4z2zfCOLI Robertosiquieros Robertosiquieros Yeah, no audio on that either. No worries thx for reply Robertosiquieros Robertosiquieros So what we looking at anyway? I can't read any of it maybe my laptop screen isn't high enuf res. What's the erratic brown line? Justa Guy Justa Guy Go to the gear in the lower right (settings), click to get HD Res and make it full screen jonnyy40 jonnyy40 How long for it to get up to 1200?(I assume the bootom right temp numbers are the current level) Justa Guy Justa Guy Run started 8.5 hours ago ... In another 8 hours or so, things will start to get interesting ... Maybe tomorrow afternoon/night for 1200C? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Erratic line is voltage as dispensed by PID and sampled by HugNet board. Actual V is about 79. Skip Mark Saker Mark Saker what fuel we running, Parkhomov? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Length of run is undetermined. Depending on manual hold times as necessary. Skip magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Yes, Parkhomov nickel. Skip magicsnd1 magicsnd1 LiAlH4 from Consolidated at 10/1 Justa Guy Justa Guy Yes, but the amount is lower .. .More info here: facebook dot c om / MartinFleischmannMemorialProject Robertosiquieros Robertosiquieros Yeah first thing I did was click HD. So must be my display res. Never mind, will just follow the chat and glean what I can. Justa Guy Justa Guy No, it's unreadable for me, too Justa Guy Justa Guy 2 curves are T/C Readings with the slope Justa Guy Justa Guy Pressure is 4th color (bluish) Justa Guy Justa Guy Lower Left is Biined Counts from NaI Detector below 1 MeV Justa Guy Justa Guy Binned Justa Guy Justa Guy Hey Skip ... If you happen to create a new YouTube Link when this one expires, please post it here or in hangout or at MFMP FaceBook Site so I re-relay .. thanks! magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I hope I don't have to try. I'm not a windows guy. Skip Justa Guy Justa Guy lol ... k ... We'll just have to wait until Alan gets back ... I'm not sure about the refresh process, myself magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The Hangouts doesn't expire, does it? Justa Guy Justa Guy The Hangout will remain, but the YouTube Video running in it will expire every 4 hours or so, and a new link has to be passed around magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I don't know how to make that link. Skip magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I was sleeping (or trying) when Alan set it up. Skip Justa Guy Justa Guy ... Back on the YouTube Stream Generation Page, there will be something to click on to start it again ...then the link needs to be Copy/Pasted ... Justa Guy Justa Guy Don't worry about it, we'll just go a few hours without the video if/when it happens magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I'll try to figger it out when the time comes. Skip Justa Guy Time for a few zzZZzzzzZs L8r magicsnd1 magicsnd1 lucky... Robertosiquieros Robertosiquieros At what time is pressure expected to go over the hill? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Can't tell you a time but its due... Skip Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer hi Skip... the hangout should last for 8 hours... only live rewind restricted to 4 Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer on ECW sanjeev has made a link to a spreadsheet... last tab is where crowd is capturing long term data and graphing it Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer in ManyCam you can rotate images... you could rotate top left 180 to match schematics published Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer as I understand active is on the left with two K type tcs Opdehoede Opdehoede The foil ont hte left is to protect the transducer? Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer yes Opdehoede Opdehoede Is the vieuw on the reactor from above? Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer it has a maximum operating temp and this helps keep it under that Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer yes view from above... which should be interesting when it gets hot Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer I have been on a bus for last 20 hours... so sorry for not being able to assist as much as I would have liked. Opdehoede Opdehoede Hope the camera survives, and the picture could get wobbly from convection of the air Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer actually... still on it Opdehoede Opdehoede @ Bob , you are great, nothing to be sorry about Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer yes... my thought precisely... though I think it is a fair distance and zoomed Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer tnx... pressure is in line with Padua... around 22bar over gauge magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Yes, the active side is on the left. out of sight past the foil is a heatsink as well, to protect the pressure sensor. The camera is well above the reactor. Skip magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Hi Bob Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer Hi Skip. Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer you doing the night shift there? Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer hours 3 to 5 are the worst Opdehoede Opdehoede Just in case you are asking me, its midday here in Holland magicsnd1 Yup, I'm the late night babysitter. skip Bob Greenyer Bob Greenyer hey skip... how far from the reactor is the head/crystal of the scintillator? Opdehoede Opdehoede There should be a checklist for live open experiments, together with some tutorials for youtube sttings, datastreaming etc magicsnd1 magicsnd1 6 inches or so and we have a TC on it reading 24C Opdehoede Opdehoede Like the pilot has a checklist for take off magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Smarter people may not need it, but I would love such a checklist. Skip Opdehoede Opdehoede Complete with tutorials for every step of the checklist Opdehoede Opdehoede Do you have a stethoscoop Skip? :-) Opdehoede Opdehoede just kidding magicsnd1 magicsnd1 :-) Mike Henderson Mike Henderson Good morning. Do we have heat-before-coffee??? Opdehoede Opdehoede Morning Mike, coffee thats a good idea, its good for my self sustain mode magicsnd1 magicsnd1 It's the pressure that's getting to me... Opdehoede Opdehoede To much pressure, so longer slope of heating? Arnaud Kodeck Arnaud Kodeck Pressure doesn't decrase ... magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Nope, still going up. Unlike GS2 (?). Skip Mike Henderson Mike Henderson 333 psi, 20 atmospheres, wow. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Should have fallen over the cliff by now... Skip StephenC StephenC 333 psi should make good coffee?? StephenC StephenC Good luck today and thanks for including the Spectrometer data Mike Henderson Mike Henderson Isn't there a temp where Al2O3 starts gathering the loose Nitrogen to form AlN? I am assuming you did not purge the head space with H2 or such. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 We loaded in air. Skip Opdehoede Opdehoede Spectrometer. English is crazy, it once made a mistake and now have to repeat the mistake for all eternity. StephenC StephenC Is it not the same in dutch? Opdehoede Opdehoede Nope dutch-> termo-meter baro-meter Opdehoede Opdehoede meter means measuring device in Dutch StephenC StephenC Ahh ok good to know I live there at the moment ;) Opdehoede Opdehoede English: -> ther- mommeter Opdehoede Opdehoede bar- rommeter Opdehoede Opdehoede Just keep repeating the mistake and it will seem normal after a while Opdehoede Opdehoede :-) StephenC StephenC hah ok :) Uncle Sausage Uncle Sausage is someone twiddling the voltage knob? 38gerald38 38gerald38 Bob, some how my comments don't come on ecatworld anymore but they are complaning about the quality of the stream. I've read someware you use manycam to grab the screen. 38gerald38 38gerald38 i've had trouble with quality and manycam to, when making movies from the screen, I got much better result with microsoft media encoder x 64 Uncle Sausage is someone twiddling the voltage knob? 38gerald38 38gerald38 Bob, some how my comments don't come on ecatworld anymore but they are complaning about the quality of the stream. I've read someware you use manycam to grab the screen. 38gerald38 38gerald38 i've had trouble with quality and manycam to, when making movies from the screen, I got much better result with microsoft media encoder x 64 38gerald38 38gerald38 it's free and you can tweak a lot in compression and quality of the stream. maybe it work for you guys to. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The application of the voltage is controlled by the PID and sampled/displayed by the HUG board. The variac is at 78V or so. I will bump it up in a while... Skip Robertosiquieros Robertosiquieros English 'are' crazy, not English 'is' crazy ?? Andrea C Andrea C In the previous test pressure started decrease at 250°C and at 35 bars. Should we now assume that the pressure drop was due to leakage? Andrea C Andrea C i found the previous plot of temperature vs pressure, but i cannot post the link here. Andrea C Andrea C anyway, this time it seems that the pressure is not going down at all. Andrea C Andrea C and we are almost at 500°C Andrea C Andrea C without any sign of decrease, still incresing instead Uncle Sausage Uncle Sausage " the event is over" where to how? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Stand by. Trying to get it back up. Skip Opdehoede Whoopy, with CHAT, nicely done magicsnd1 ? Opdehoede Opdehoede Everybody, you have 30 minutes to go fetch the popcorn and beer. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 hello Andrea C Andrea C I rewrite here that we are waiting for the pressure to go down(we are at 500°C and still increasing, while decrease should have started at 250°C). californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 Hi I am really Ed Pell californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 What is the pressure at? Andrea C Andrea C 362 psi Andrea C Andrea C in the last update, still increasing Andrea C Andrea C 25 bars@ 478°C californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 hats off to Alan on the quality of the seal Andrea C Andrea C sure Andrea C Andrea C but now i'm courious to see what happens californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 indeed Andrea C Andrea C maybe the limiting factor is the pressure itself, 32 bars in the previous test before decreasing. Andrea C Andrea C we'll see Andrea C Andrea C i assume the powder is exactly the same Andrea C Andrea C but maybe in lower quantity? Andrea C can some member clarify, please? californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 I think there is less "empty" space in this run, which would cause higher pressure Andrea C Andrea C but we are at lower pressure actually Andrea C Andrea C mmm Andrea C Andrea C the previous run reached 32 bars Andrea C Andrea C but at a lower temperature Andrea C Andrea C can even be due to the fastest increase in temperature used in the previous test Andrea C Andrea C maybe this time we will not see a peak in temperature nor a decrease because the slower step up allowed a best absorbtion Andrea C Andrea C could this be the case? Andrea C Andrea C sorry...peak in pressure, not temperature californiadreaming33 That makes sense to me, slow ramp may avoid high peak pressure by absorptiion at lower temperature Andrea C Andrea C i think the reactor broke Andrea C Andrea C i'm watching it on lenr forum and seem that the reactor is not working anymore Andrea C Andrea C i'm not sure anyway Andrea C Andrea C waiting for updates Opdehoede Opdehoede @ Andrea, are you infering that from the LENR forum chat? Andrea C Andrea C yes, maybe i misunderstood Andrea C Andrea C i'm not english, sorry Opdehoede Opdehoede "main reactor is go" ? Andrea C Andrea C yes, i guess is working fine? Andrea C Andrea C or gone? Andrea C Andrea C :D Opdehoede Opdehoede Yes it is fine, it was a parody on a rocket launch. :-) Andrea C Andrea C ok, thanks :D Albin Hubert Albin Hubert do you see any video ? Andrea C Andrea C no Opdehoede Opdehoede I am pelgrim108 on the LENR forum chat. Andrea C Andrea C ok, opdehoede, now i got it Opdehoede Opdehoede Stream is live now here: XXX*youtube*com/watch?v=l7T9pa5wjfM Opdehoede Opdehoede stay here for the chat Andrea C Andrea C thanks Andrea C Andrea C the active temperature cannot be seen lol Andrea C Andrea C the camera is pointed in the wrong direction Opdehoede Opdehoede I am reading 478 psi for the pressure I think, not sure Andrea C Andrea C indeed, 33 bars Andrea C Andrea C google docs not updated anymore Andrea C Andrea C still at 362 bars Andrea C Andrea C psi* Ian Walker Ian Walker magicsnd1 You need to move the graph display to the tight cannot see the active reactor temp Ian Walker Ian Walker *Right Opdehoede Opdehoede Someone will do it by going through the recorded stream probably Opdehoede Opdehoede @ Ian, good chance that MFMP is not watching this chat Andrea C Andrea C i guess they are lowering the temperature to fit some pressure limit Andrea C Andrea C temperature is slightly decreasing sometimes Andrea C Andrea C while pressure is stable Ian Walker That is what happened at the beginning of an absorption phase last time. Andrea C Andrea C spreadsheet updating, check it out Andrea C Andrea C anyway fueled temperature missing there too Andrea C Andrea C lol Andrea C Andrea C i try to warn them on the facebook page Andrea C Andrea C about the camera position Opdehoede Opdehoede From Skip on ECW: Opdehoede Opdehoede Alan is awake now and hopefully he can fix my screw ups shortly Justa Guy Justa Guy I'm awake, too Andrea C Andrea C i PMed alan too Jonas Hellö Jonas Hellö I just love that this too is purple.?? On the other hand it seems to have no temp..! Opdehoede Opdehoede Could the low resolution be due to double streaming? Opdehoede Opdehoede Ok, never mind, I see that resulution has improved already Justa Guy Justa Guy I just set up the relay again: youtube*com/watch?v=FmirPpEYo6I Justa Guy Justa Guy for chat Opdehoede Opdehoede Thanks Opdehoede Opdehoede Just read that this chat will be closed any minute now, so everybody come over to youtube*com/watch?v=FmirPpEYo6I ..... Justa Guy test Opdehoede Opdehoede Working great Justa Guy Justa Guy Maybe, but where is everyone now chatting at? lol Opdehoede Opdehoede lol Justa Guy Justa Guy I think my 8 hours might expire soon, though Justa Guy Justa Guy THis is the original official feed: youtube*com/watch?v=l7T9pa5wjfM Justa Guy Justa Guy We should just chat here and watch a 40 second delay of that original Opdehoede Opdehoede I agree Opdehoede Opdehoede I will try to scare everybody away from the other chat Justa Guy Justa Guy OK, I must get some food in me ... brb ... lol Justa Guy Justa Guy ty Lee Shurie Lee Shurie @Justa: thank you very much for putting up this event with a chat stream. magicsnd1 Yeah, thanks for your help. We're looking at options for a better platform, but this is what we have now and you made it work! magicsnd1 magicsnd1 We have the temperature controller on hold now, with the core at just over 900 C. The pressure is finally showing signs of dropping, so we'll leave the system at this temperature for a while to see. Opdehoede Opdehoede thanks for the update, have you seen places where the green line went higher than the calibration? ( have you seen LENR candidates) Justa Guy Justa Guy I need someone to invite me into the [apparently] latest Google Hangout or e-mail the link. Opdehoede Opdehoede I dont know how that works. This is the link to Alans google + site Justa Guy Justa Guy I'm there, thanks Justa Guy Justa Guy All is sorted out for now Opdehoede Opdehoede Great Justa Guy Justa Guy I don't know how I still have the SAME YouTube Link I had last night. Perhaps I'm still [barely] under the 8 hour expiration umbrella, or I found some trick to maintain the same URL link ... lol Opdehoede Opdehoede Have you seen the temps on the graph? exiting Justa Guy Justa Guy Not really ... Thanks for mentioning it amongst all the morning chaos ... I see the pressure is falling Opdehoede Opdehoede Fueled reactor is now higher temp than dummy magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Yes, something interesting there.. Justa Guy Justa Guy Ah, OK ... Do we know the Heater Current or Coil Resistances? Opdehoede Opdehoede Yellow line represents voltage to the two coils Opdehoede Opdehoede Thats all I can give you Justa Guy Justa Guy I s'pose Alan has the matched Coil Resistance in the Write-up somewhere, that's all we need to know, if the resistances aren't changing vs temp/time magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Coil resistance is 8.5 ohms. The power level will have to be calculated from the data after the test, but it will be arond 400 watts at this temperature. Justa Guy Justa Guy ty magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The important thing is that the temperatures are diverging in a way that suggests a heat source inside the active core. Justa Guy Justa Guy Is that the total coil resistance for the 2 cells, or just 1/2 of the total coil? Opdehoede Opdehoede I think its at 11 C diff. right now Andrea C Andrea C things are starting to be interesting... magicsnd1 magicsnd1 There's only one coil, with one turn spread slightly at the center to separate the two heating zones. So 8.5 ohms end-to-end Justa Guy Justa Guy That's what I imagined ... So if we were to estimate the Effective Heating Coil Resistance over each cell, that would be about 8.5/2 - 1 approach lead resistance Andrea C Andrea C OT: on cobraf are shown some new pictures of the upcoming levi's new test Justa Guy Justa Guy The Background Peaks that do show up on the NaI Detector are most likely Potassium Decay Chain X-rays due to the Cinder Blocks and surrounding cement in the room, as far as I'm aware of. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Another possibility: the absorption of h into Ni is endothermic, so the drop in pressure might cause the temp differential. I'll let it cook for a while. Andrea C Andrea C ok, good point Justa Guy Justa Guy I cal them "Cinder Blocks" but I really have no idea what they are, sorry! magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Regarding the source og background radiation, I did a long ambient sample before the test and the software can correct for that (after the test). I store the data hourly. Justa Guy Justa Guy kewl Justa Guy Justa Guy Cement has a lot of Radioactive Potassium Isotopes in it, as I recall from 1989 ... lol magicsnd1 magicsnd1 the blocks are "light concrete" construction material so there may be some K mixed in with the lime feedstock when they're made. Justa Guy Justa Guy I will work on the video loss ... brb Justa Guy Justa Guy OK, just a glitch on my end Opdehoede I am seeing a persistent hot area on the fueled side magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The active region is on the left in the live camera image Opdehoede Opdehoede Anybody having problems with the stream pausing? Opdehoede Opdehoede Justa his stream is pausing on me Andrea C Andrea C me too Justa Guy Justa Guy Yeah, I think my time might have expired ... brb Opdehoede Opdehoede 30C diffence Opdehoede Opdehoede I like it. Justa Guy Justa Guy OK, Video Relay is fine, here Justa Guy Justa Guy Alan, ty for informing us that the left side in the video is active ... I assumed from the CAD Drawing that it was the opposite ... ?? Opdehoede Opdehoede Video relay is working fine here also Justa Guy Justa Guy Well, this is sad ... we only have 10 in chat ... If it doesn't get above 15 I'll be very disppointed since we could have done all this by sitting in the Google Hangout :( magicsnd1 magicsnd1 That brief light change was me opening the lab door. Justa Guy Justa Guy OIC magicsnd1 magicsnd1 If someone drops a hint in e-cat world or Vortex that something interesting is happening, we'll get plenty of customers... Andrea C Andrea C lol magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Temp delta is now 33 degrees, so it's still increasing. Justa Guy Justa Guy Alan, does the UCS30 Software have a cursor/marker feature? ... Placing one @ 511keV would be nice Andrea C Andrea C the only not lenr explaination could be some change in thermal conductivity due to charge melting, as pointed out elsewhere. Andrea C Andrea C but i don't know Justa Guy Justa Guy OK, we were up to 14 chatters at one point ... Tahnks guys for cloning into the chat room :) magicsnd1 The center of the spectrometer horizontal scale is 516 kev. Close enough? Justa Guy Justa Guy lol ... OK, fair enough ... I thought it was 535kEV because that's the best my screen can do on the video ... I see that it is 516keV magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The hangout screen shows 68 watchers. Where are the rest? Justa Guy Justa Guy They don't know where the chat is being held at ... I just posted to quantumheat org just now Andrea C Andrea C i don't think the counter here is reliable, i was talking to another user before and the counter was showing 1 user Andrea C Andrea C we were at least two Justa Guy Justa Guy OK, I posted again at MFMP FaceBook Page to inform all of the Relay/Chat Link Justa Guy Justa Guy youtube*com/watch?v=FmirPpEYo6I Opdehoede I posted another link to this caht on ECW Justa Guy Justa Guy ty Opdehoede Opdehoede The main article on ECW is still linking to the defunct stream Justa Guy Justa Guy Yeah, we made a real mess of things, didn't we? Justa Guy Justa Guy ... Only in California :) magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Anyone have Frank Ackland's personal email. He's the one to fix that. Andrea C Andrea C frank is not online on fb Andrea C Andrea C what is the next target temperature? ss dd ss dd YES finally a live chat James Rovnak James Rovnak Is alan available here, just tuned into site Justa Guy Justa Guy lol @ ss dd James Rovnak James Rovnak What are PID settings for test - noticing some thermal osillations Justa Guy Justa Guy ss dd, if there is a way to mess up a live experiment, we will find a way to do it in California :) Mark Saker Mark Saker ive just google chatted him but no response yet - says he's onlnie though ss dd ss dd 70 pepople on the other vid? Lee Shurie Lee Shurie I posted on LENR Forum to let people know we're over here. Justa Guy Justa Guy That's the raw feed link though, ss dd ... Unfortunately we don't have a chat window there :( ss dd ss dd poseted on the other youtube Opdehoede Opdehoede I ordered Frank to change the link in the article, via a comment. Opdehoede Opdehoede on ECW James Rovnak James Rovnak Should we consider putting spectrum analyzer on pressure line to see LENR process directly when it occurs? Justa Guy Justa Guy wonderful ss dd ss dd so when did the 600 set point start exactly Justa Guy Justa Guy lol @ James ss dd ss dd i guess its 590 Andrea C Andrea C Acland may be busy, not usual for him to lose this kind of events ss dd ss dd which is 990 inside the core Justa Guy Justa Guy looks like the relay feed has stalled, here Justa Guy Justa Guy brb ss dd ss dd oh no everyo9ne leavning Justa Guy Justa Guy I will get the feed back and I might need to pass out a new URL magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I set the hold at 590 C around 13:50 UTC. Opdehoede Opdehoede @ Andrea, I agree, he is a busy guy. Justa Guy Justa Guy looks like the feed prob was nonexistent; I just keep losing the view magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Oh, I just emailed Frank with this link. Hope we can keep it working. The stream is lagging the hangout by about 6 minutes, but it's still working. Andrea C Andrea C maybe we better not call too much people LOL Justa Guy Justa Guy Alan, if you refresh this link, you will be back to the 40 second delay or so Kristian Sandberg Kristian Sandberg Are the (fine sampled) voltage and current recorded to allow a power input analysis later? (Seems like the voltage displayed in the feed is too coarsely sampled for such analysis) magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I'll try it Justa Guy Justa Guy Actually 1 minute delay here Andrea C Andrea C 5 minutes here Andrea C Andrea C just refreshed magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Still 6 minutes for me. Not important as long as it keeps streaming. Opdehoede Opdehoede Frank Acland changed the link to the original working stream, not to this one Justa Guy Justa Guy @Jristian ... I'm not sure where the current is being saved but we do know that the total coil resistance is 8.5 ohms from one end of the lead to the other, and that it's close to a 50/50 split magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Kristian, all the data is saved with about 2 seconds resolution. The power calculation is done post-test using that data in a spreadsheet. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The current is not sampled but I have a full calibration of the coil resistance vs temperature and that is also used in the spreadsheet calculation. Justa Guy Justa Guy Each lead looks like about 6 inches long ... Come to think of it, everything is 6 inches, right ... lol Kristian Sandberg Kristian Sandberg Great, thanks! ss dd ss dd so the data recording on the sheet restarted right after the 590 set point Lee Shurie Lee Shurie Alan do you have a target pressure you want to reach before ramping up again? ss dd ss dd 90 mn to see a clear 25 degree crossover ss dd great Justa Guy Justa Guy 4??7 PM Friday, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is 9??7 AM Friday, Pacific Time (PT) Justa Guy Justa Guy ( : 37 Justa Guy Justa Guy 9 : 37 Justa Guy Justa Guy 4 : 37 ss dd ss dd 7 hours diff Andrea C Andrea C the difference in temperature looks like a perfect exponential, we are approaching the asymtote and probably will not move from that ss dd ss dd makes sense to keep that temp as long as the temp diff is increasing Andrea C Andrea C i think the asymtote should be around 45°C Andrea C Andrea C looking at the graph magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Every 1-=15 minutes thare's a fairly abrupt drop in the pressure of 1-2 psi. The temp differential seems to go up shortly after each of those events. One is happening righ now, so watch for it. ss dd ss dd that could take another couple hours to get to the asymptote Justa Guy Justa Guy FYI: It looks like the Video Feed to here drops out or stalls a lot and you need to refresh or look at the original video feed ss dd ss dd Im just here for the chat Justa Guy Justa Guy lol ss dd ss dd watching the other vid ss dd ss dd alan you got mail ss dd ss dd popped up on the vid magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The diff is now 39, so still increasing. Andrea C Andrea C could be some resonance? Opdehoede Opdehoede Parkhomov newest pdf has a photo of Alan in it magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Not resonance, the pressure drops and stays down, step-wise over 1-2 minutes. Opdehoede Opdehoede yadi*sk/i/JFRE30PmgwCud Andrea C Andrea C yes, there is the new independent levi et al replication setup too Andrea C Andrea C so it see, Opdehoede Opdehoede Levi holding a nice Glowstick Opdehoede Opdehoede MFMP glowstick is better looking Andrea C Andrea C i see a girl in one picture, maybe evelyn foschi Andrea C Andrea C looks like her Andrea C Andrea C even if the picture is very small Emily Moisan Emily Moisan the delta T seems driven more by the fueless reator reducing its temp than the fueled reactor gaining temp Andrea C Andrea C can't see anything right now Andrea C Andrea C buffering Opdehoede Opdehoede buffering here also penswrite penswrite I think the plan is to hold the fueled reactor at 600, for awhile. If there is a LENR reaction, the no-fuel reactor gets cooler, at any given power input Justa Guy Justa Guy The live feed is still oK Justa Guy Justa Guy I need to do something about this relay feed Emily Moisan Emily Moisan so the power input is the same for both ractor but driven by fueled reactor temp ? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 @Emily, the PID controller is reducing the power to maintain the active side at a set point. Thus the null side drops in temperature. Justa Guy Justa Guy brb Emily Moisan Emily Moisan cool Opdehoede Opdehoede live feed here: xxx*youtube*com/watch?v=l7T9pa5wjfM penswrite penswrite Emily: yes Opdehoede Opdehoede I have them both open magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The delta is now 40 C and still diverging. Watch for the pressure drop coming up. Andrea C Andrea C my exponential has gone wild, it seems Emily Moisan Emily Moisan anyway to mesure an instant COP from fueled reactor ? being that fueless is = 1 ? Opdehoede Opdehoede The unfueled looks to have more overall glow, could it be that it is putting out more heat? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Don't judge it by the glow. That is visible light from the heater coil shining through the translucent cover tubes. The thermocouples are the way to measure temperature, not the light output. Justa Guy Justa Guy be back in 10 minutes Opdehoede Opdehoede @Alan, but the termocouple could be above a local hotspot Opdehoede Opdehoede Are the TC readings an average over time? Emily Moisan Emily Moisan @opdehoede would'nt this have shown in the temp readings from the begining of the experiment ? Unless the TC has moved ? penswrite penswrite should all be relative Justa Guy Justa Guy ... I'm back and now investigating why my "Public View" of this relayed video stream has stalled Nigel Appleton Nigel Appleton mine too magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The thermocouples were carefully calibrated before the fuel was added. The reactor has not been touched since the experiment started, so nothing has moved. The data in the stream is 30 second averages Justa Guy Justa Guy GO here to see the video in the meantime, but stay at this current stream for chat: youtube*com/watch?v=l7T9pa5wjfM Opdehoede Opdehoede @ Emily, I dont know James Rovnak James Rovnak can anyone ascertain cycling in glow & its period Opdehoede Opdehoede @ James, its about 5 sec per cycle magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The cycling in the glow is the PID controller doing its job, with a cycle time of 5 seconds. The thermal time constant of the reactor is about 12 seconds. James Rovnak James Rovnak Well just maybe LENR is visiting us now? Wish we had a spectrum analyzer on analog pressure signal to look more directly at process like Rossi with his stethascope Lee Shurie Lee Shurie These are very interesting results we are seeing. Whatever the eventual interpretation there will be much to learn from this. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 We have a long way to go with this experiment. Later today I'll ramp the temperature up another 100 degrees in the core. But I want to see the pressure drop more first. James Rovnak James Rovnak I thought the thermal time constants related to thermal storage in heat sink might be in excess of a minute like thermowells in power station magic. thanks for your input! magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I measured the 12 sec. time constant with the GS2 reactor by watching the core temperature respond to an abrupt power step. ss dd ss dd pressure is dropping really slowly, this might take a long time magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Yes, slow pressure drop. But the tempe delta is now 43 C and still increasing. " If it works, don't fix it" Lee Shurie Lee Shurie Well said @magicsnd1 ss dd ss dd ya as long as the delta is increasing no point risking breaking things californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 I can not read the temps. Is the active side 43C above the null? californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 This is Ed Pell ss dd ss dd 42 now ss dd ss dd but it went to 44 Lee Shurie Lee Shurie Yes @california Ian Walker Ian Walker Hi all just to correct a misapprehension has "... being that fueless is = 1 ?" californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 yahoo!!!! magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Yes, active side is 43 C above null. Hi Ed, make sure you set the Youtube resolution to 720P(HD). James Rovnak James Rovnak ssm around carefully as you know it eventually needs no external power to maintain itself being self stabilizing with radiation heat losses.? Ian Walker Ian Walker Hi all just to correct a misapprehension has "... being that fueless is = 1 ?" this is incorrect Fuel-less is allways <1 (less then one) californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 Thanks Magic I can now read the numbers californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 Everybody say load slow looks like they are right Ian Walker Ian Walker That was a question regarding COP magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Any estimation of COP will have to wait until post-test analysis to get accurate power data. Brian Albiston Brian Albiston Alan, can you remind us what the key differences are between this test and the last test? It's half the fuel load right? californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 This is historic. We have data showing the onset of excess heat. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 along with null radiation! magicsnd1 magicsnd1 There are two main differences: first, this test is a split cell with half filled w/alumina rod. half the volume, half the fuel load. Brian Albiston Brian Albiston 0.3g nickel and 0.03g LAH? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Second, this test uses 0.3 g of Nickel powder supplied by Parkhomov. His analysis showed significant presence of carbon in the Ni. Brian Albiston Brian Albiston What nickel powder did you use for GS2? penswrite penswrite Alan, any grinding--or straight from Parkhomov? James Rovnak James Rovnak Magic I think time constant varies with absolute temp with 4th power & is lower here magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The GS2 test used Hunter AH50 5 um carbonyl nickel powder, purity unknown but probably >99.5% Justa Guy Justa Guy FYI: As y'all can see from the Video Relay Feed here, all I can do is get the live feed to advance a small amount, then stall, unless I reset everything and dish out a new link ... sighs Lee Shurie Lee Shurie Thanks for your efforts @justa magicsnd1 magicsnd1 James, the thermal time constant is for conduction within the reactor structure, from the heater coil to the core. Justa Guy Justa Guy I will reduce the video resolution and keep trying magicsnd1 magicsnd1 JG, the stream is working here in SC. Are you watching behind a Big Blue firewall? James Rovnak James Rovnak Sorry I meant time constant is about a minute here & controller is cycling at process time response here Brian Albiston Thanks for the info Alan. I want to echo @penswrite's question. How did you mix the fuel? Justa Guy Justa Guy Alan, your feed is fine, but I cannot seem to keep the relayed video going at this URL magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The fuel was mixed in a small plastic cup using a stainless spatula. Not ground because the consolidated Chem. LiH powder is quite fine already. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Justa, what I meant was that the video on THIS feed is now working well, tho it stalled a while back. penswrite penswrite Thanks, Alan. Maybe find another cup to drink from, then.?? Justa Guy Justa Guy Yes, I can have it show for a few seconds, then the stream needs to be reset, manually californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 google hangout is good for the video and youtube is good for the chat Justa Guy Justa Guy lol James Rovnak James Rovnak magic I'v also measure time constant from loss of power at various temperatures glad to see you estimate penswrite penswrite @720dpi, with a good screen and feed, the resolution is still lousy. The data is good, though, and the chat is fun. penswrite penswrite Is there some good reason that chat isn't working on the live stream? Justa Guy Justa Guy Yes, that's true pens ... I still can't read the upper right graph parts well ... A better solution would be to shrink the left side images and blow up the right side ones or .... Justa Guy Justa Guy Show each of the 4 screens in succession jonnyy40 jonnyy40 I read above that 'Levi et al' reproduced Parkhomov's experiment? Justa Guy Justa Guy I am working on that solution for the future penswrite penswrite Jonny, let's cross our fingers that we are witnesses to LENR-live, here! Justa Guy Justa Guy @pens, it's a setup issue with Google Hangouts that needs to be resolved ... Bob Greenyer knows how to do it but I have never tried it and need to go thru the steps, solve it, then pass it on to Alan californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 I do not know how you did the clip for the lower right but since we are all offering suggestions, a clip of just the temperatures numbers and a clip of just the pressure number might be bigger James Rovnak James Rovnak I think we are would be nice to look at zero suppressed spectrum of pressure traces at this point for LENRs signature californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 I googled how to turn on the chat in hangout it gives the details californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 what does zero suppressed spectrum of pressure mean? Justa Guy Justa Guy By default, chat should be enabled, but I think Alan had to use the default hangout setup instead of using wirecast, then backfeeding it into the hangout that way magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Ed, I tried zooming on the data numbers but the aspect ratio of the Manycam quad screen is fixed, so it won't help unfortunately. James Rovnak James Rovnak Magic measured glowing osc at Denis' test of fuel element glow in the night air at about 15 sec & thought he was bumping into LENR as PID would not go 10 1200 C set point Glow Fish Glow Fish A question, during the calibration run, did the thermocouples read any increasing difference as the temperatures went up? Just making sure the difference isn't due to the new coils extending. penswrite penswrite Thanks for the zoom try, at least. Cheers! Glow Fish Glow Fish As mentioned in the brief about the new glowstick construction. James Rovnak James Rovnak zero suppression subtracts out dc ave leaving only osc to resolve with spectrum analyzer where LENR sigature lies. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 James I see thanks magicsnd1 James, because of the DAQ auto scaling there is noise of +- 0.3 psi in the pressure data. a high-pass filter such as you suggest would leave nothing but that noise. James Rovnak James Rovnak Magic what are your PID controller settings now that I know who you are? James Rovnak James Rovnak I realize that magic thats why I said analog signal should be measured magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Regarding the thermocouple calibration, that data was published on the MFMP Facebook page, and showed a delta of about 10 C at this operating point, with the NULL side higher. Glow Fish Glow Fish Ah. Thanks Finlay MacNab Finlay MacNab Can't load the video. I think that is why there are only 5 watching James Rovnak James Rovnak Nice work by the way majic how do you find time to talk to us? californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 Magic I hope you will let this run for a few days penswrite penswrite ??Cigars and balloons, Alan, if the temperature trend continues/enlarges! penswrite penswrite (No champagne from that plastic cup, though.) magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I plan to let this run as long as it's still yielding useful data. I make the time because it's important, and I have good help from MFMP, especially Skip who came here from Vancouver for this test. James Rovnak James Rovnak Now are you going to push Rossi's ssm up & down the load ramp majic? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Who is Rossi? penswrite penswrite Nobody knows. James Rovnak James Rovnak Andrea Rossi with the stethoscope no less! penswrite penswrite Doctor. James Rovnak James Rovnak You know Parkhomov's friend californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 The guy who took Piantelli's idea? James Rovnak James Rovnak I think the LENR process wil autostabilize here if you do nothing else majic, just maybe? Jim penswrite penswrite I'd settle for really cheap hot water--whoever sells it to me!~ Glow Fish Glow Fish 28 bar. That is impressive. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 since there is so little fuel an excess heat production of only 5000 watt-sec would show none chemical source James Rovnak James Rovnak californa progess sits on the back of many liberal friend, its conservatives that hold the world back, IMHO? Incidentally California by trio is favorite song! jonnyy40 jonnyy40 Is hydrogen absorption into nickel exothermic?not my question but i'd like to know too californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 I currently live in New York State but am moving to California :) James Rovnak James Rovnak This is a moment all nuclear engineers have been waiting for & dreaming about & now its happening - thanks magic! Glow Fish Glow Fish What is the current data sampling rate? californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 on the one hand touch nothing if things are working on the other hand Magic is the data secure? Ca a copy be made while in process? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The data sampling rate is set to 1 second but the HUGnetLab board isn't able to maintain that, so some samples are skipped. Call it 2 seconds. Glow Fish Glow Fish Thanks magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The data is quite secure, stored in a MySQL file by the Apache server that runs the HUGnetLab system. The server is running in a small laptop with battery backup in case of power outage. John Howard John Howard I have a simple request: can the reactor be physically marked to denote which way is up? It might help in forensic analysis. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 cool John Howard John Howard Firax's reactor blew but it's not clear if the hotspots where on the bottom or top. James Rovnak James Rovnak magic are you controling temp on a 1 sec sample temp thats near aliazing stability point you know. James Rovnak James Rovnak Sorry I think that was stupid comment you must be using analog input to controller? James Rovnak James Rovnak Im sure Firax was played with by the LENR spirit IMHO! Glow Fish Glow Fish Would aliasing really matter? I doubt there is a large amount of high frequency components. The reactor has a fair amount of thermal inertia anyway. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 the pressure is stabilizing???? Glow Fish Glow Fish I think the coil supply is controlled by a separate external PID controller anyway, not the HUG board. James Rovnak James Rovnak Digital controller can go unstable by not sampling fast enough & sampled data theory can calculate this point. Analog controller are not bothered by this except signal filtering magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The PID is an Auber SYL2352P with its own thermocouple, mounted about 4 mm from the one for active data. James Rovnak James Rovnak Yes, thanks Glow Fish Glow Fish The pressure looks fairly steady now. Any expectation that is will drop? Justa Guy Justa Guy Sorry, folks ... I've kinda given up on relaying the video for now, because I think I need to create another URL Link and I don't think it's worth it at this point Glow Fish Glow Fish I have both streams open at the moment, one for chat, one for video. Justa Guy Justa Guy When Alan's Video Expires I will fix it up and send out the new chat/relay link Justa Guy Justa Guy That's the way to go, GlowFish, until this is all resolved James Rovnak James Rovnak majic I see where the controller has no manual mode as did Denis' which LENR did him in when he tried to get to 1200 C be careful ssm could overwhelm your control as Denis' was! californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 Magic do you have an estimate of the power difference needed to make the 40C temperature difference? californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 I am guessing about 40 watts Andrea C Andrea C 45°C really was the asymptote of the exponential, besides it took 3 hours to reach the point, as if something had a thermal time constant that long. James Rovnak James Rovnak Great day Majic, loved watching you tame LENR, be careful now! californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 at this rate is will take more tan 20 days for the pressure to come down!! Glow Fish Glow Fish Assuming that the nickel is not saturated under the current conditions. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The temp delta in the core is now about 100 C. This is about 40 watts on the power chart from GS2 at docs.google.com/file/d/0BxxJkjesxe4kUUNrNlI1ZmV0UlE/edit Andrea C Andrea C thanks magic James Rovnak James Rovnak Remember LENR dosen't want to be controlled when it is in the self sustaining mode (Rossi's ssm) & you may have to do it in manual to save fuel element from overheat accident! Andrea C Andrea C 40 watts, and very stable, as it seems californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 super, every four minute it exceeds chemical! Andrea C Andrea C very constant diffenence Glow Fish Glow Fish Is the resistance of one heater coil still about 10 Ohms? Glow Fish Glow Fish Sorry, the whole coil is 10 Ohms? Justa Guy Justa Guy The whole coil is about 8.5 ohms magicsnd1 magicsnd1 No, this heater coil was 8.5 ohms cold. I'll go have a look at the ammeter and give you the number at this temp Justa Guy Justa Guy From one end of the lead to the other Glow Fish Glow Fish Thanks californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 let me throw out the idea that the slow pressure fall at this point may be due to the consumption of H atoms by the reaction (whatever that is). Justa Guy I think the H2 Gas is collecting on the surface of the Nickel ... Occassionally, an H2 Gas Molecule (or some other Gas Molecule) comes by and hammers one into the Nickel Subsurface magicsnd1 magicsnd1 It's currently right at 9 ohms, including the leads. This matches the calibration of 8.96 ohms at this temp. Justa Guy Justa Guy ty Alan Glow Fish Glow Fish Thankyou Justa Guy Justa Guy Of course the first thing that happens is the H2 gets dissociated/split into atomic H at the surface, and then the H gets hammered in. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 In order to get 40 watts assuming a reaction that gives off 1Mev we need to consume 2.5E14 H per second Glow Fish Glow Fish So with an RMS voltage of about 57V (A little hard to pin down), the peak coil power is sitting around 360W. Not sure of the duty cycle ratio to get the average though. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Don't use the 30 sec. average voltage data shown as RMS. The voltage at the coil terminals is currently 86.3 v. RMS sine wave, with on/off duty cycle set by the PID controller. Doug Collinge Doug Collinge Is the live data being published anywhere? ss dd ss dd so 40 watts of "extra" power and what is the input for the active side? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The data files will be uploaded complete shortly after the end of the experiment. Not available live. Glow Fish Glow Fish Ok. At 86.3 volts, the coil is being pulsed at around 830W. Still need to take into accoutn the PID duty cycle to get the actual average. ss dd ss dd so very small cop still if those numbers are right Glow Fish Glow Fish But seeing as the average voltage is about 44V with the actual being 86, Ill assume a 50% duty cycle. So the coil power would be around 415W? Glow Fish Glow Fish On average? James Rovnak James Rovnak Magic as you are at a low perecentage of ssm power contribution to load there are no controller issue here, its when you get to much higher contributions that it will play havic with PID controller. Justa Guy Justa Guy The PID Controller is mainly Proportionating the output, right? ... When it gets in trouble, it turns the Voltage all the way off/on, I s'pose. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 There are only 3.6E21 H atoms to start with we need to "burn" 2.5E14 per second to get 40 watts. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 This is 1 in 1E7 used per second. James Rovnak James Rovnak Its auto adjusted with fuzzy logic so we don't kown what the actual settings are! Thank alan for pointing out spec sheet for me! californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 all gone in 90 days running Andrea C Andrea C the excess energy till now should be of the order of 0.1 KWh or so Justa Guy Justa Guy I've played with PID Settings quite extensively on High Vacuum Systems ... I have quite a few Ogden ETR-9300 s James Rovnak James Rovnak Great calc California we are witnessing prof positive of Cold Fusion Today! ss dd ss dd so on this graph docs.google.com/file/d/0BxxJkjesxe4kUUNrNlI1ZmV0UlE/edit if I look at the lower curve, the power for 600 degrees is just below 300 Opdehoede Opdehoede Hot from the press: me356 is maybe going to work for a big Russian company as lead scientist for LENR ss dd ss dd so 340/300 would be cop=1.13, is that good enough for a half assed estimate? James Rovnak James Rovnak Justa Alan say the are using Auber SYL2352P do you have experience with that one - fuzzy logic tunning? ss dd ss dd or did I use the wrong curve Justa Guy Justa Guy I think the Ogden has Fuzzy Logic, but I would have to go back and check.... penswrite penswrite Parkhomov had cop rise with higher temperature; lotsa headroom to go to 1200 degrees. Glow Fish Glow Fish Hmm. The duty cycle must be lower then. According to those curves, the power should be around 300W not 400W. ss dd ss dd I see someone has added a" rough cop" value in the spreadsheet ss dd ss dd ok glowfish so I read right James Rovnak James Rovnak Yes we are now to raise ssm content of LENR going higher ss dd ss dd 13% anomalous heat is interesting at these temps Justa Guy Justa Guy When your PID Controller & Feedback Thermocouple are doing a good job, Output Voltage will become very constant. What is the +/- scale of the Voltage Graph? Can't see what it is. James Rovnak James Rovnak Good for me356 a great engineering display in his tests! ss dd ss dd in the spreadsheet someone calculated T1^4/T2^4 to be 1.21 Opdehoede Opdehoede @James, Indeed Glow Fish Glow Fish Which spreadsheet are you referring to? James Rovnak James Rovnak Getting better with each passing minute & warming an old nuclear engineers heart, no less! ss dd ss dd glowfish: the firax one is being used to collect data every 15 mn ss dd ss dd docs (dot) google.com/spreadsheets/d/15ODbN9Oq6Pjyp9A61hdX0-fBJIXBBKMk7­Ei06PzTc-Q/edit#gid=1291075296 Glow Fish Glow Fish Thanks ss dd ss dd link not working James Rovnak James Rovnak Good show Justa been a long time since I have been behind a PID controlle & to thin fuzzy logic has finally made it - just starting as I was finnishing up career! ss dd ss dd glow fish: bit (dot) ly/1J959hC californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 time in Moscow? ss dd ss dd pick the mfmp gs3 data tab ss dd ss dd people reused the spreadsheet from Firax's experiement ss dd ss dd I'm not a scientist but the temp diff is equal to the voltage amirite Glow Fish In this case, it is one coil so you can only really calculate the total power input into the one coil. The assumption is that the coil power is shared between the two partitions. Glow Fish Glow Fish The temperature difference is due either to LENR or to slight differences in the two halves. However, the differences were calibrated out in the dry runs. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 ss dd thanks for the graphs ss dd ss dd I calculated that the pressure would get below atm in about 100 hours ss dd ss dd patience everyone penswrite penswrite Less than 1/2 a nickel's nickel is producing a lot of anticipation and entertainment in the peanut gallery! californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 happy to see there is an off-site copy of the data this is so very important penswrite penswrite Yeah, kudos to MFMP for open science. Justa Guy Justa Guy looks like a new Video URL might be coming up Glow Fish Glow Fish .Pressure does seem to have dropped a bit now. Glow Fish Glow Fish About 10psi? John Howard John Howard I see that Kanthal A1 melts at 1400'C. Whats the upper limit on the thermocouple? Glow Fish Glow Fish Actually from the spreadsheet, 24psi from the last recorded peak John Howard John Howard Type K appears rated only to 1260'C Justa Guy Justa Guy As I recall Alan said he is confident that he can hold 1250 C indefinitely, and that he is prepared to take it something like 100 C hotter for no more than an hour or so, where failure might occur californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 this is plenty exciting right here John Howard John Howard @justguy Thanks! I was just wondering where the upper limit of the equipment is. eosvenus eosvenus This is the external thermocouple, so if you reach 1250C, you would already likely have melted the nickel internally (1455C). John Howard John Howard Ah right! Justa Guy Justa Guy Yes, I think that pushing things to even 1250 C shouldn't be done unless all other "tricks" are exhausted. John Howard John Howard I guess that if the reactor climbs above 1400' we lose it. John Howard John Howard Unless there is somewhere to dump the heat. Justa Guy Justa Guy brb jonnyy40 jonnyy40 Is Pons still alive? Don't know how or who will kiss it better for him ss dd ss dd I think it is worthwhile to secure this 600 degrees "datapoint", but a higher COP at a higher temp would be much more convincing californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 This is a history making experiment as is. Let it run out. There is next month for new experiments Justa Guy Justa Guy Pons is still alive ss dd ss dd with a COP around 1.1/1.2 people will come up with explanations why this isn't LENR, so I think it would be worth attempting a higher COP penswrite penswrite I think the plan is to raise the heat after an interval. If the pressure is declining, there is an argument to hold for awhile longer. ss dd ss dd no rush though californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 the longer it runs the better the chance of see resuts in nuclear composition of ash penswrite penswrite I'm savoring this apparent success! penswrite penswrite Elemental transmutation (alchemy) might be hard for skeptics to explain away. jonnyy40 jonnyy40 Parkhomov had 1.13 'only' at the extreme end of the experiment before meltdown for 12 seconds? (I thought) ss dd ss dd true the nuclear analysis should be interesting Andrea C Andrea C Was the calibration run done with dummy powder as well? eosvenus eosvenus How is the fueled chamber tracking against its calibration run? It has been fairly steady over the empty chamber, but how close was it to the empty chamber during calibration? Andrea C Andrea C or was both chambers empty? eosvenus eosvenus Ah, is it filled with a powder? I misunderstood that it was empty penswrite penswrite Parkhomov reported cop of 2.58 @ 1290 degrees. ref.: ParkhomovPaper_20150129_English.pdf jonnyy40 jonnyy40 lol Andrea C Andrea C we are asking the same question eosvenus :D jonnyy40 jonnyy40 I'll be quiet,thanks for not staring or making tutting noises penswrite penswrite I think "empty" has an (empty) alumna rod inside. penswrite penswrite alumna tube, probably Andrea C Andrea C ok, so no nickel powder Justa Guy Justa Guy All, I have something I would like you to think about, concerning this experiment, if I may take a few minutes of your time.... Justa Guy Justa Guy I am not suggesting this be done, but here goes .... Justa Guy Justa Guy S'pose we decided to end the experiment right now.... magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Yes? Justa Guy Justa Guy We then re-calibrate the cells as best we can ... By recalibrate, I mean they are crude calorimeters and let us see if they have changed in their characteristics ... Justa Guy Justa Guy We make the assumption that when the power is turned off (for a good amount of time) any excess heat reaction has ceased... magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Unclear on the concept! Calibration of the thermocouples over the full temperature range takes about 4 hours, allowing for settling time. Justa Guy Justa Guy Exactly Justa Guy Justa Guy Full calibration magicsnd1 magicsnd1 meanwhile the fuel which has been carefully processed by 18 hours of slow heating, will cool and probably won't reactivate. Justa Guy Justa Guy S'pose that we find that the calibration has changed, and now the purported excess heat really isn't excess heat, but a calorimeter with different characteristics that account for the deviatiion... eosvenus eosvenus right, the lithium aluminum hydride melts at 150C, and then mixes with the nickel powder, the slug we would have now after cooling would not be guaranteed to perform in the same manner. penswrite penswrite Let's not autopsy the golden goose before we see all the golden eggs (she?) can produce. Justa Guy Justa Guy Would that be difficult for any of us to swallow? magicsnd1 magicsnd1 So if we shut it down, that's all she wrote except for the post analysis. We're right at the sweet spot. As soon as the stream is restarted, we'll do a step up in set point and watch it take off. Justa Guy Justa Guy Again Alan, I am NOT suggesting we do this at this time. penswrite penswrite I think Alan plans to goose this goose, in due time. ?? Justa Guy Justa Guy I am posing that Q to all of you... How would you explain it? ss dd ss dd OMG new set point coming up guys@! eosvenus eosvenus About the only benefit to stopping now, would be to see if we get a self sustained heat after cutoff phenomenon, and we would have to sort out how much heat retention is contributed from melted metal Justa Guy Justa Guy The reason I am asking you this question, is I was faced with the same question back in April of 1989 Justa Guy Justa Guy And that is what we found out magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I hope to keep this run going for several days. The cell and data system are the best yet and working well. Justa Guy Justa Guy We had many cells to sacrifice so we did Justa Guy Justa Guy Again Alan, you seem to be defending this and I am NOT suggesting that this be done. Justa Guy Justa Guy I am asking you all how you would prove that it could be possible. Justa Guy Justa Guy Because that is exactly what I discovered with a PF-type Cell ss dd ss dd Justa Guy are you sort of playing devil ss dd ss dd s advocate eosvenus eosvenus Justa, from what you are proposing, as long as the reactor isn't destroyed, this could simply be done after this run is complete. Justa Guy Justa Guy lol yes I am Justa Guy Justa Guy Yes Eos Justa Guy Justa Guy You are right, as long as the cell isn't damaged Justa Guy Justa Guy It can be done eosvenus eosvenus A 'post-calibration' run with everything in place exactly as it stands. It would make sense in the future, but I would want to see the analysis of the fuel post-run without any risk of invalidation Justa Guy Justa Guy Yes, Eos ... We only did this type of experiment when we had a half dozen cells running and could risk it. ss dd ss dd what kind of cop would we need to dispel any doubt? Justa Guy Justa Guy OK, I will take a crack at answering that eosvenus eosvenus So, I would say, we see excess heat from the fuel in this reactor. Lets let it run its course and look at the fuel, and save this untouched post-run re-calibration test for a later date. Justa Guy Justa Guy That is an excellent idea eos, as long as we can stave off the temptation of ruining it eosvenus eosvenus It makes sense to do that test later, but if the fuel ash shows transmutation, that is the far more important outcome of the test. Justa Guy Justa Guy Anywho, thanks for all your time and I hope you think really hard about this. californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 my vote is for running as is as long as it lasts or until Alan and Skip fall over from boredom Justa Guy Justa Guy It's one of the most immediate Qs a skeptic is going to confront us with Justa Guy Justa Guy lol Justa Guy Justa Guy Did we lose the video? eosvenus eosvenus It would be great to be able to run it for as long as there is sustained extra heat and pressure changes?? See how long it takes to burn out. James Rovnak James Rovnak wise to keep running at this point to build up proof positive of nuclear ash. Parkhomov was understaffed & burned his element out prematurely as did dennis & me356 - lets get proof positive, no alan? eosvenus eosvenus Seems from Rossi's point of view that might take awhile though ;) magicsnd1 magicsnd1 No danger of boredom with so many questions to (re) answer). Next time I'll build a web site with all the docs & dwgs & a chat window. But not today... californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 nuclear ash is more convincing than a cop of 1.6 with ash you can send sample around the world for others to see for themselves penswrite penswrite I'm not sure what Alan's and Skip's alchemist predecessors would have made of transmuting Ni to Cu, etc., but the mainstream physics community would probably have to be impressed! eosvenus eosvenus Transmutation is the proof in the pudding Justa Guy Justa Guy Again, it seems that some of you are taking this thought, to apply to this run and doing something about it, and that is the furthest thing from my mind, as it is all of yours (from your responses) californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 LENR community will be impressed the MS science will first say contamination penswrite penswrite For the moment, we are savoring the moment, while we bask in the glow. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 This system will run at up to 1250 C in the core for many hours, so we have a long way to go before a burnout will allow me some rest. That's a good thing. Justa Guy Justa Guy Anyway, sorry for taking up your time ... Carry on! californiadreaming33 ss dd how is the google doc spreadsheet connected to the real time data? I am impressed magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The current hangout will terminate in about 15 minutes. We'll start a new one immediately and Justa will give us a new Utbe stream with chat. ss dd ss dd little hands are typing the numbers every 15 ss dd ss dd not me though ss dd ss dd collaboration spreadsheet californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 LOL penswrite penswrite big hands, clapping californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 sneaker net Justa Guy Justa Guy If you look at the excess Mass & Heat Capacity of the Fuel/Charge, it wouldn't make sense that it would allow such a deviation to be real, but in the case I was involved with, it did. ss dd ss dd i made the temperature scatter plot- my humble contribution magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Is that you Ecco?. magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Anyway, thanks for the hard work. penswrite penswrite sorry you got burned, once, Justa Justa Guy Justa Guy Did we lose the Video Feed or is it just me? Justa Guy Justa Guy No, didn't get burned at all, pens californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 not just you penswrite penswrite new link? ss dd ss dd part 3 feed looks done Justa Guy Justa Guy Yes, Alan needs to create a new link I think, and then I will create a new relay link that has chat magicsnd1 magicsnd1 The hangout video is still running but just a few minutes left. Watch for an invite to a new one. Justa Guy Justa Guy Thisa is a chance for Alan to try and gain chat Justa Guy Justa Guy he can experiment ss dd ss dd Justa Chat please Lee Shurie Lee Shurie Hangout video has ended for me too Justa. Justa Guy Justa Guy yes, just ended in GOOGLE Hangout Justa Guy Justa Guy We need to give Alan some time to play around and see if he can establish a Chat Session, too Justa Guy Justa Guy Hopefully Alan will come back with a link here, and then I try to establish a Video Relay/Chat Link if we have no chat again ... Then I will broadcast the links to MFMP Facebook and Quantum Heat Pages jonnyy40 jonnyy40 Justa Guy are you saying that the result is 'too good' at such a low temperature compared to the Parkhomov experiments? Justa Guy Justa Guy No, not at all Justa Guy Justa Guy I was only hoping to stimulate your thoughts on how you would defend something like a 5 or 10% excess heat value Justa Guy Justa Guy Because they will all be asking this (the skeptics) jonnyy40 jonnyy40 (not a scientist just an interested layman) trying to understand californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 the internal temperature is quite high, even higher than the calibration would suggest because the heat source in in the core not half way out (wire heater) eosvenus eosvenus Right, but you are saying the 5-10% would be from heat retention by the fuel somehow? Justa Guy Justa Guy yes Justa Guy Justa Guy My argument would be (as a devil's advocate) that the calorimeter changed and that accounts for the apparent excess heat eosvenus eosvenus I'm trying to think of how the fuel having a higher capacity for heat retention would have looked earlier in the test run, wouldn't it mean it would take longer to heat up than the dummy core? penswrite penswrite youtube.com/watch?v=ubMekgFXByg californiadreaming33 californiadreaming33 thanks pen eosvenus eosvenus If we were talking about the 5-10% range, that should be visible in the current test data ss dd ss dd still no chat ss dd ss dd MFMP need a CTO Justa Guy Justa Guy Not just take different times to heat up, but insulate the calorimeter such that it's Heat Capacity has changed eosvenus eosvenus Right, but if that was the case, we would also see that as taking longer to heat up eosvenus eosvenus Sorry, that is more of a question rather than a statement ;) penswrite penswrite I want a LENR water heater. Soon. Justa Guy Justa Guy lol eosvenus eosvenus Alan, is the plan to step up now that we are on a new stream? Justa Guy Justa Guy I think he doesn't have the new stream yet, and is trying some things out, to avoid changing the link eosvenus eosvenus Interesting, it has dropped back to only 40C above now ss dd ss dd we do have new stream Justa Guy Justa Guy No, that might be recorded video from before Lee Shurie Lee Shurie I vote for Justa for CTO.?? Justa Guy Justa Guy OK, what is the link? ss dd ss dd penswrite posted it if you scroll up a bit Justa Guy Justa Guy Here's the new link: youtube*com/watch?v=ubMekgFXByg ss dd ss dd youtube.com/watch?v=ubMekgFXByg penswrite penswrite hd resolution seems worse Justa Guy Justa Guy OK, I will start a new relay/chat Link and pass it on here, in a bit. Justa Guy Justa Guy brb eosvenus eosvenus Where is the recorded data spreadsheet available? ss dd ss dd bit (dot) ly/1J959hC Lee Shurie Lee Shurie docs dot google dot com/spreadsheets/d/15ODbN9Oq6Pjyp9A61hdX0-fBJIXBBKMk7Ei06PzT­c-Q/edit#gid=1291075296 eosvenus eosvenus I must be missing something, which tab in the spreadsheet should I be looking at? ss dd ss dd mfmp gs3 dat eosvenus eosvenus Oh, wow, no idea how I missed that. ss dd ss dd ya thats the best part of the experiment magicsnd1 magicsnd1 That's a beautiful job ss. Thanks! penswrite penswrite If Magic's still hanging out in this chat, when do you plan on giving it more power? ss dd ss dd not my job ss dd ss dd sanjeev reused the sheet what was used for firax magicsnd1 magicsnd1 I meant nice work by whoever is doing it. ss dd ss dd bunch of people filling the numbers ss dd ss dd with their little fingers greasy from all the popcorn magicsnd1 magicsnd1 Power step coming momentarily. Pressure just crossed below 400 psi, what I was waiting for. ss dd ss dd 400 is a nice random number penswrite penswrite Great! Next step to 700? ss dd ss dd exciting times ss dd ss dd id bet on 750 ss dd ss dd =1190 internal eosvenus eosvenus Popcorn! that is what I was forgetting! ss dd ss dd that was the original plan penswrite penswrite Champagne! (Sticky, though.) eosvenus eosvenus So, looking at the data, it seems there was about a 5% difference in temperatures until we got around 350C, when the fueled reactor started to catch up (goes to Justa's question about heat capacity eosvenus eosvenus and by looking I mean 'rough eyeballing' Lee Shurie Lee Shurie Yahoo! Could be interesting. ss dd ss dd i thought the fueled reactor caught up after we got to 590? eosvenus eosvenus it caught up then, but it looked like it was starting to close the gap earlier (but I was just eyeballing the numbers , so this could easily be wrong) ss dd ss dd to me it just seems like random noise before 590 ------------------------------ ss dd there we go ss dd ss dd only 30 sec lag Justa Guy Justa Guy lol Justa Guy Justa Guy I had to cut down the video qualtiy ss dd ss dd whoever was typing the numbers got lost ss dd ss dd I had to take over ss dd ss dd now Im stuck doing it ss dd ss dd looks like the temp went up a notch eosvenus eosvenus Am I back in the right spot? eosvenus eosvenus You are right SD, it is back and forth between 8.5% and 10.5% until right at 590 Justa Guy Justa Guy FYI: I placed MFMP Chat/Relay Part 4 Links at MFMP FaceBook and Quantum Heat Web Sites ss dd ss dd so i guess this is going to be a slow ramp up? Justa Guy Justa Guy Sorry for the delay, but I had to decrease the Video Bandwidth due to overload Justa Guy Justa Guy If you want a better video picture, link also to the original --> youtube*com/watch?v=ubMekgFXByg eosvenus eosvenus I've got the original feed running in another window Justa Guy Justa Guy Excellent Brad Lowe Brad Lowe there a link to analysis of what I'm seeing? Justa Guy Justa Guy You can be our "Eagle Eyes" kinda person ;) ss dd ss dd bit (dot) ly/1J959hC - MFMP GS3 data eosvenus eosvenus docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15ODbN9Oq6Pjyp9A61hdX0-fBJIXB­BKMk7Ei06PzTc-Q/htmlview?sle=true# Brad Lowe Brad Lowe I can't read the plots.. But someone said Alan is seeing excess heat.. eosvenus eosvenus or that easier to use one :D eosvenus eosvenus about 40C extra eosvenus eosvenus peaked around 45.87C over Brad Lowe Brad Lowe That seems excessive.. :) Justa Guy Justa Guy ... Maybe there's a Chipmunk in there runnin` around eosvenus eosvenus Between 594 and 597 on the fueled side is where it started producing more heat, which is very close to 1000C internally. eosvenus eosvenus the empty side started dropping heat actually, I believe someone said earlier that they cut back power when the fueled side spiked eosvenus eosvenus so between 7:30 and 7:45, they went from 593.18 fueled and 601.92 empty to 597.83 fueled, and 596.16 empty. After that the empty temp keeps dropping and fueled stays around 605 for a long time eosvenus eosvenus empty dropped to around 560 at that time. Brad Lowe Brad Lowe Any means to detect He? Any elemental analysis before/after planned? eosvenus eosvenus sorry, dropped to 560 as its stable temp on the empty side. eosvenus eosvenus Just the gamma spectrometer as far as I'm aware eosvenus eosvenus They reset that every hour or so eosvenus eosvenus Also, the PSI has been dropping steadily eosvenus eosvenus slowly but steadily Justa Guy Justa Guy We are at a very high pressure compared to Parkhomov at this temperature, aren't we? eosvenus eosvenus Looks like they bumped power, temp is up to 634.91 / 591.32, and voltage was 45 with 401.5 PSI eosvenus eosvenus Voltage just went up to 50.95, so they may be stepping again eosvenus eosvenus Brad, this 40C difference has held for over five hours now :D Ed Pell Ed Pell no increase in delta with up temperature this begs the question what happens when temperature goes down? Brad Lowe Brad Lowe Super awesome. wish I could see the charts... (I vote for 4 streams at a low fps instead of quad view!) Will wait for the write up. eosvenus eosvenus It has gone from a stable 40C over to 43.5 C over after the power bump Ed Pell Ed Pell true consistent with 0.9 factor eosvenus eosvenus They just changed the power fairly recently, so it may take a bit for it to stabalize 15.11.06