Electron-assisted fusion

  • This is not new. For what it's worth, this has been published in numerous reviews in peer-reviewed journals, and then one paper by me, and is unchallenged in the journals. I call the situation "strong preponderance." Hey, I'm easy. I will strike the word "strong." Satisfied?


    By “new”, I was referring to anything new in your argument, which might have changed since last time you recited it.


    There is practically no other major option on the table. There is very little contrary evidence. Those are rebuttable statements, but nobody has so far managed to get them into a peer-reviewed journal.


    Your focus is on the PdD FPHE effect. There’s obviously a lot beyond that in LENR research. Are the other areas well established? That’s a matter of debate. As for the PdD FPHE effect, it depends upon what you mean by "on the table." If by this you mean what LENR researchers take seriously, you might be right. If by this you refer to what the experimental evidence constrains us to consider, then induced decay/fission are also on the table.


    If I had "full confidence," I would not be stating "preponderance of the evidence," which is a qualified statement, not an assertion of proven fact. Really all I care about is that the evidence is strong enough to warrant serious funding, and that question has been answered.


    The phrase I used was “far too much confidence,” not “full confidence.” You speak with the confidence of the polemicist rather than the with the boring caveats of the scientist. Perhaps this is a description you’ll agree with?


    Alpha decay is great, as an idea. Produces helium, yes. But not at the experimentally know ratio, and would show other effects not observed.


    What conclusions can be drawn from the helium experiments are few: we have good evidence that there is a correlation of helium with excess heat in the PdD electrolytic system, and that something is producing more heat that can be accounted for by a chemical process. In addition, there are some researchers who report ratios that are on the order of 10's of MeV/4He. Some of the researchers believe this ratio can be quantified and that it is in the neighborhood of ~ 23 MeV/4He. But those conclusions are as of yet tentative. This situation leaves the parameters underdetermined, and as such the existing experimental evidence cannot be used to rule out alpha decay on the basis of a ratio that is not what we expect. This is straightforward to see when we allow the possibility that there might be a helium generating process and a heat generating process proceeding in parallel. Now we can expect helium to vary in relation to excess heat.


    That the experimental evidence currently admits of other interpretations is apparent from the need for more experiments to firm up the conclusions you describe.


    It is not too late, perhaps, to suggest to those doing the work that this or that should be tested. If it is not too expensive or difficult, they might do it.


    Yes, Eric, you have discussed this at length. Where is the result of all that? Can it be reviewed to determine if there is some clear conclusion?


    LENR researchers rightfully look for and plan experiments around what is of interest to them. I do not have the energy or motivation to try to influence them to look at the possibility of induced decay/fission, although I note that some experimentalists already report findings along these lines. I will be happy if a handful of hobbyists eventually take interest in it. (If it was unclear, I do not consider it something I have come up with; this possibility has been contemplated on several occasions in the past, even before 1989.)


    Unfortunately the extended discussions we’ve had are unavailable to the public. I’m on the fence as to whether to rehash the contents. I do not find it edifying to go over the same points several times.


    Get the number right, okay? 23.8 MeV is the theoretical value for energy from the production of helium from deuterium. And calling experiments by a dozen research groups, I think there were fifty or so total measurements, "several" is a bit, ah, distorted.


    Is “~ 23 MeV” or “23.8 MeV” more correct for describing the theoretical expectation in question? If you take a second look, you’ll surely see the tilde. You have corrected me, but your correction is incorrect. :)


    To get to the ~ 23 MeV/4He value, we must squint our eyes. First we might note and then look past the fact that the reported values are significantly less than ~ 23 MeV/4He, as is evident in Ed Storms’s histogram. Perhaps we’ll console ourselves with a thought about anodic stripping freeing up some 4He that is otherwise embedded too far into the cathode to be released into the offgass. We will not worry about the kinetic energy that will have been needed to accomplish such embedding. And we’ll also be happy with the assumption that there is a fixed ratio, and not a ratio that differs from experiment to experiment, as is actually seen in the wild. And on this basis perhaps we’ll conclude that we have a preponderance of evidence indicating the combining of deuterium, not necessarily via regular fusion.

  • The question of induced beta decay reactions (including electron capture) involves a different but similarly interesting thought experiment. Re the p + e → n reaction, I find this one unlikely for the reason you mention. But what about 3He + e → t, which requires only ~ 19 keV?


    I have to admit that I still don't understand ...
    In 1000K for LENR, thermal average energy is below 0.1eV ... while 19keV indeed looks better than 782keV ... it still seems extremely unlikely, and I completely don't understand how tritium could help? You would still need crossing the Coulomb barrier to fuse it with a different nuclei.
    Could you give an example of the entire sequence (leading to excessive energy from nuclear reactions in ~1000K)?


    The only way to avoid crossing the Coulomb barrier I can imagine here is going through something neutral like neutron - but it would require investing these unimaginable large 782keV energy ... or dineutron, but it so exotic that it seems we probably don't even know its mass or lifetime: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dineutron


    So currently I don't see a way for realistic LENR without crossing the Coulomb barrier - and the only way for doing it seems by using assistance of electrons.
    And if radial trajectories of electrons dominate, Gryzinski has gathered dozens of arguments for, it seems reasonable that such radial trajectory "jumps" between the two nuclei for a sufficient time - Gryzinski has been considering this kind of trajectories for molecular bonds earlier and so 27th April 1989 he was able to publish response in Nature to F&P (23rd March): http://www.nature.com/nature/j…38/n6218/pdf/338712a0.pdf
    He has started working on CF back then, mentions some calculations in his book, but I couldn't get anything concrete.


    Here is his 1990 New Energy Times comment: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199007.PDF
    1991 theory conference, but I couldn't find text: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1991AIPC..228..717G
    4 papers here, but I could get only 1: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/aca…sion/wais/cold-fusion.cat

  • The only way to avoid crossing the Coulomb barrier I can imagine here is going through something neutral like neutron - but it would require investing these unimaginable large 782keV energy ... or dineutron, but it so exotic that it seems we probably don't even know its mass or lifetime:


    An other guy who investigated some aspects of electron resonances is heffner : http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/DeflationFusion2.pdf


    His description of the effect is similar to the Japanese version of the 4D collapse. But he has no real mathematical model...


    Interesting is his collection of literature: A very contraversy finding of a H2O neutron scattering experiment is mentionned, which was, as usual, refuted by an other group, but with using neutrons with a far higher energy <== showing that they dindn't grasp the problem of sweet spot resonances...

  • Just to refocus more on electron:


    Here I found a clean, free reprint for the "electron" assisted ? decay rate change of Be7! (caught in a fulerene / electron capture).


    https://www.researchgate.net/p…density_functional_theory


    The effect is small +- 1% but clearly reproducible. The paper is of 2008, may be there was ongoing work.


    Added: The more concrete calculations:: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1001.1995.pdf

  • An other guy who investigated some aspects of electron resonances is heffner : mtaonline.net/~hheffner/DeflationFusion2.pdf


    He is writing exactly what this thread was supposed to be about (electron-assisted fusion):
    "D + e- + D ---> He + e- + energy
    D + e- + D ---> T + p + e- + energy
    D + e- + D ---> 3He + n + e- + energy"
    However, he hides electron dynamics behind "tunneling", "wavefunciton collapse" - these are popular QM terms used when we don't know what's happening there - we need to understand this hidden dynamics, finally calculate probabilities of such events.
    Eventually, he could present some quantum calculations, but I don't see anything like that in this paper.

  • I have to admit that I still don't understand ...
    In 1000K for LENR, thermal average energy is below 0.1eV ... while 19keV indeed looks better than 782keV ... it still seems extremely unlikely, and I completely don't understand how tritium could help? You would still need crossing the Coulomb barrier to fuse it with a different nuclei.
    Could you give an example of the entire sequence (leading to excessive energy from nuclear reactions in ~1000K)?


    Yes — I did leave out a critical piece of the explanation. Here's the sequence I have in mind to get to tritium:

    • Electrons concentrate in some part of a metal, e.g., a sharp point or a ridge, in the way they normally do.
    • A dynamic condition, e.g., a magnetic or electric field, causes this concentration to increase significantly for a moment.
    • Beta decay in a beta emitter with a normally long half-life is accelerated, releasing ~ MeV electrons.
    • Some of those MeV electrons scatter with 3He, leading to a small but detectable amount of tritium via 3He + e → t. Since the electrons are energetic, the 19 keV energy barrier will not present an issue.

    So currently I don't see a way for realistic LENR without crossing the Coulomb barrier - and the only way for doing it seems by using assistance of electrons.


    I think we agree on the importance of electrons, and we're just talking about different ways that those electrons might have consequences that line up with the results of LENR research.

  • 1. Electrons avoid concentration due to Coulomb repulsion ... assuming you could get 10x energy this way (flying hamster...), you just got from 0.1eV to 1eV scale ...
    2. Where this dynamic condition comes from?
    3. Sure beta decay is a good source for high energy electrons, but you need specific isotopes to produce it ... and such electrons produce high energy gammas ...
    4. Ok, some of these electron, you need a concrete source for, could allow for 3He + e -> t ... but still: so what? How tritium helps you with fusion?
    If you would like to fuse it with a different nucleus, you would still need to cross the Coulomb barrier ...


    The role of electrons is definitely crucial if LENR is true, but it's not about their high energy (unless reaching 782eV) or high concentration - high energy electron just pass by nucleus, high concentration of electrons repel each other.
    If true, LENR is an act of three actors: two nuclei and a low energy electron - attracted by both of them, what should be sufficient to stay for a long enough time near these sources of attraction, with noneligible probability.

  • 1. Electrons avoid concentration due to Coulomb repulsion ... assuming you could get 10x energy this way (flying hamster...), you just got from 0.1eV to 1eV scale ...
    2. Where this dynamic condition comes from?
    3. Sure beta decay is a good source for high energy electrons, but you need specific isotopes to produce it ... and such electrons produce high energy gammas ...
    4. Ok, some of these electron, you need a concrete source for, could allow for 3He + e -> t ... but still: so what? How tritium helps you with fusion?
    If you would like to fuse it with a different nucleus, you would still need to cross the Coulomb barrier ...


    Re (1), electrons avoid concentration due to Coulomb repulsion, to be sure. But there are two things to be pointed out here. First, these particular electrons only need to be concentrated and do not need to have lots of energy; indeed, having lots of energy would defeat their concentrating. The increased concentration, particularly in the nuclear volume and around the Coulomb barrier, could be expected to result in two things: (a) screening of the Coulomb barrier, which normally serves to attenuate the spontaneous processes of fission and alpha decay; and (b) an increased flux of electrons for electron capture and beta decay in nuclei for which these processes would be energetically favorable.


    Re (2), the dynamic condition comes from something in the environment. Two possible sources of perturbation come to mind: an applied magnetic or electric field (as will occur in electrolysis); or the electron bound to hydrogen or deuterium, when the hydrogen or deuterium adsorbs onto the surface of the metal. Because solid state physics is hard to model, we can infer that dynamic solid state physics is probably even harder to model. If the swings in electron density are significant as a function of time (think of water sloshing around in a big bowl), there’s the possibility of considerable screening for brief periods.


    Re (3), yes, this is true. Even with high electron densities, electron capture or beta decay would not be expected to occur in significant amounts except in the case of specific isotopes for which these processes would be energetically allowed.


    Re (4), tritium doesn’t help with fusion. I was just remarking offhand that 3He + e → t seemed more likely than p + e → n. I’ll mention again that I doubt there is fusion occurring at appreciable rates in LENR, and that other explanations should be sought out, if only as alternatives to keep in mind.


    The role of electrons is definitely crucial if LENR is true, but it's not about their high energy (unless reaching 782eV) or high concentration - high energy electron just pass by nucleus, high concentration of electrons repel each other.


    Here I'll agree with you that in general high energy in electrons isn't important, and that screening is. But although electrons repel one another as a result of Coulomb repulsion, it is also the case that they pool in sharp topological defects. On top of this, although in the steady state one can reasonably expect there to be little screening, the question is whether this is necessarily also true under dynamic conditions. The question to be explored is whether electrons in a metal can be made to concentrate more than has up to now been thought possible under non-equilibrium conditions.

  • Here I'll agree with you that in general high energy in electrons isn't important, and that screening is. But although electrons repel one another as a result of Coulomb repulsion, it is also the case that they pool in sharp topological defects.


    As many of us speculate, the binding force between H(0) etc. can only be of magnetic nature. I found a good summary paper dealing with different Van der Waals configurations.
    For the ones, who like to more deeply digging into the maths. I recommend to look at the following picture:
    A strong E (induced B) field loads a plane (surface) to a reasonable high potential and aligned H(0) start to get aligned in an energetic minimum order.


    Van der Waals forces have a 1/r6 dependency, which teaches us to look at the break even point (r0) where they become stronger than electron coulomb repulsion until the nucleus repulsion stabilizes the picture.



    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.2858.pdf

  • Eric,
    1) if you want high concentration of electrons, you can have a few dozens of them in a large atom - does increasing Z make LENR more probable?
    These electrons effectively screen the charge of nucleus down to zero ... but only asymptotically (and electric dipole/qudrupole/octupole may remain). While getting really close, this screening drops down to zero ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem ) - making essential only the single electron which remains between the two nuclei.

    Anions can have stronger screening, but again only asymptotically - it doesn't help when the two nuclei are really close.
    Electron concentration might be helpful in some initial stage, but the most of assistance is required in the final state - when the nuclei approach ~10^-15m distance so that nuclear force could take from here - in such distances there is just no place for a second electron due to tiny mass and huge Coulomb force.

    2) Applying external magnetic or electric field perturbs the dynamical equilibrium (Zeeman, Stark). Classically, the electron orbits became a bit shifted, and Gryzinski claims nearly perfect agreement for such calculations of diamagnetic properties ( http://www.sciencedirect.com/s…icle/pii/0304885387903337 for He, Ne, Ar, NaCl, KCl and CaCl2).
    Anyway, we are talking here about eV-scale of changes - very far from the required for nuclear transitions.


    3,4) I see you are talking about more general LENR, while I was thinking about the ones finally leading to excess energy - not from radioactive isotopes or fission.
    Neglecting situations with 782keVs for going through neutron, such excess energy requires crossing the Coulomb barrier - what, if true, requires electron staying between the nuclei for a sufficient time.


    Electron concentration, high energy electrons, external field applied, van der Waals force etc. might have some influence on the initial state.
    But the energy of Coulomb barrier is 1/r: crossing the last femtometers require more energy than getting to 10fm distance - this final state is the most crucial, and electron between the two nuclei seems the only factor which could really help.

  • Electron concentration, high energy electrons, external field applied, van der Waals force etc. might have some influence on the initial state.
    But the energy of Coulomb barrier is 1/r: crossing the last femtometers require more energy than getting to 10fm distance - this final state is the most crucial, and electron between the two nuclei seems the only factor which could really help.


    According to Mill's and others calculation the H electron density is not always of spherical symmetry. This can only be true for an average of averages...


    We have to find configurations which allow dynamic shrinking of orbits, which agree with the basic laws of Electrodynamics. In Rydbergstates some electrons leave the orbits what diminuishes the e-e screening. Just let your imagination flow and start to think!

  • Sure, the assumption of spherical density has lots of disagreements with reality.
    Effectively, this nonsymmetry can be asymptotically described by higher electric moments (dipole, quadrupole, octupole) and their oscillations - what is the base of later Gryzinski's scattering models, e.g. explaining the Ramsauer effect ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…r%E2%80%93Townsend_effect ).


    However, average electron-nucleus distance is relatively large (~10^-10m), and orbitals focus on dynamical equilibrium - which is greatly affected by the incoming second nucleus, which needs to get to 10^-15m distance, where any interaction with shell electrons becomes nearly negligible.

  • Quote

    1) if you want high concentration of electrons, you can have a few dozens of them in a large atom - does increasing Z make LENR more probable?


    These electrons effectively screen the charge of nucleus down to zero ... but only asymptotically (and electric dipole/qudrupole/octupole may remain). While getting really close, this screening drops down to zero ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem ) - making essential only the single electron which remains between the two nuclei.


    I will say that I suspect that increasing Z makes excess heat more probable. Take a stable heavy element such as tungsten for which fission or alpha decay would be energetically favorable, but for which the activation energy is high, and now run lots of current through it. I think you’ll observe a combination of fission and alpha decay as a result. The effect will be small enough to wonder about its origin, and any crud that develops will be chalked up to contamination or, of you’re measuring helium, to helium leaking in.


    I’ll mention again that I’m not considering the case of fusion, which you allude to by mentioning two nuclei. I’m suggesting LENR consists of induced fission and induced alpha/beta decay, and that fusion does not occur in appreciable amounts. By “LENR” here I’m referring to observations of excess heat and, in some cases, helium, and in some cases charged particle radiation and transmutations.


    To your point about the asymptotic screening of the nucleus on the part of bound electrons, this is an interesting and valuable observation. I’ll add to it that what presents a barrier to the breakup of a nucleus by fission or alpha decay is not the core nuclear charge, but the Coulomb barrier, which surrounds the nucleus like a sheath that extends some picometers out. Hence the suspicion it is there (outside of the nucleus) that screening would need to take place for breakup to occur.


    We might take from your observation, however, the thought that perhaps beta decay processes, which require overlap of any electron charge with the nucleus itself (and not just the Coulomb barrier, outside of the nucleus) will be more likely with lighter nuclei unstable to beta decay/electron capture and less likely, all else being equal, with heavier nuclei.


    Quote

    Electron concentration might be helpful in some initial stage, but the most of assistance is required in the final state - when the nuclei approach ~10^-15m distance so that nuclear force could take from here - in such distances there is just no place for a second electron due to tiny mass and huge Coulomb force.


    You’re referring to fusion above, which is not a consideration in the present proposal.


    Quote

    2) … Anyway, we are talking here about eV-scale of changes - very far from the required for nuclear transitions.


    I’ll mention again that it’s the screening that is important, and not the energy of the electrons. The suggestion is that MeV-scale nuclear transitions can be attained by having brief concentrations of electron screening, i.e., that some nuclei are on the edge of spontaneously disintegrating, and that a small input (screening) is what is needed to trigger this. In light of that point, matching up the energy of the electrons with the energy of the nuclear transition is not an immediate consideration.


    Quote

    3,4) I see you are talking about more general LENR, while I was thinking about the ones finally leading to excess energy - not from radioactive isotopes or fission.


    Neglecting situations with 782keVs for going through neutron, such excess energy requires crossing the Coulomb barrier - what, if true, requires electron staying between the nuclei for a sufficient time.


    You are correct that I’m considering LENR in general, but I’m also talking about excess heat. The fission of tungsten into smaller fragments will release on the order of 10’s of MeV per fission. Your reference to “staying between the nuclei for a sufficient time” appears to be an allusion to fusion, which I’m not considering.


    Quote

    Electron concentration, high energy electrons, external field applied, van der Waals force etc. might have some influence on the initial state.


    But the energy of Coulomb barrier is 1/r: crossing the last femtometers require more energy than getting to 10fm distance - this final state is the most crucial, and electron between the two nuclei seems the only factor which could really help.


    Hopefully the point made above about the Coulomb barrier itself (the area from the nuclear radius to some picometers out) needing to be shielded will partially address this objection. But there’s another possibility that I will raise here as well: if the shielding is anisotropic (e.g., only on one side of the atom), this gives us a new variable to play with.

  • I’ll mention again that I’m not considering the case of fusion, which you allude to by mentioning two nuclei. I’m suggesting LENR consists of induced fission and induced alpha/beta decay, and that fusion does not occur in appreciable amounts. By “LENR” here I’m referring to observations of excess heat and, in some cases, helium, and in some cases charged particle radiation and transmutations.


    @ Eric W: How would you then classify D-D sono-fusion? Special LENR leading to He4?


    I agree that the SF mechanism is a completely different one, but it happens on Pd surfaces, with the same result as PdD electrolysis.


    Regarding Beta decay: I saw many approaches calculating the statistical free flight behavior of an electron inside a nucleus. Are there models with a mirror-charge going the opposite way? Just reminding that a 223 eV (electron) is enough to induce Li-e capture LENR.

  • @ Eric W: How would you then classify D-D sono-fusion? Special LENR leading to He4?


    I agree that the SF mechanism is a completely different one, but it happens on Pd surfaces, with the same result as PdD electrolysis.


    Regarding Beta decay: I saw many approaches calculating the statistical free flight behavior of an electron inside a nucleus. Are there models with a mirror-charge going the opposite way? Just reminding that a 223 eV (electron) is enough to induce Li-e capture LENR.


    Regarding (Stringham's) dd sonofusion — my first question is whether Stringham is misinterpreting his results, although I am not sufficiently familiar with his work to have more than a question. You will be familiar enough to answer this question: are the products that Stringham sees the normal dd branching ratios (to ~ 50% p/t and ~ 50% n/3He, with a little helium thrown in), or are they the LENR result, where it's almost all helium?


    About beta decay, I wonder whether attempting to model a single atom is the right way to go. The system of interest is a solid state metal lattice, where the electron density is somewhat altered by the metallic environment. About the Li-e capture, this is an interesting detail. What implications do you draw from it? My assumption is that transients of electron density will have a much higher cross section for inducing beta decay than stray energetic electrons.

  • are the products that Stringham sees the normal dd branching ratios (to ~ 50% p/t and ~ 50% n/3He)


    It's the LENR branching ratio, about 1010 times more He4! I once thought LENR He3 is just a consequence of impurities in D2! But there was no correlation so far.



    About the Li-e capture, this is an interesting detail. What implications do you draw from it?


    My implication is simple. Current theory/or calculation misses one critical effect. Many recent experiments did show that Gammov etc. is completely off, if you find the sweetspot (223eV Li) resonance of a lattice. I hope that many scattering experiments will be started (like the famous Spin-Orbital Separation paper with its 931eV resonance) that use a very fine grain resolution for the input energy!

  • Ok, as the title says, I am focusing here on fusion. Other nuclear reactions have different issues, but the main goal and claims are LENR as amazing energy source - I cannot imagine without fusion and crossing the Coulomb barrier (?)


    To your point about the asymptotic screening of the nucleus on the part of bound electrons, this is an interesting and valuable observation. I’ll add to it that what presents a barrier to the breakup of a nucleus by fission or alpha decay is not the core nuclear charge, but the Coulomb barrier, which surrounds the nucleus like a sheath that extends some picometers out. Hence the suspicion it is there (outside of the nucleus) that screening would need to take place for breakup to occur.


    We might take from your observation, however, the thought that perhaps beta decay processes, which require overlap of any electron charge with the nucleus itself (and not just the Coulomb barrier, outside of the nucleus) will be more likely with lighter nuclei unstable to beta decay/electron capture and less likely, all else being equal, with heavier nuclei.


    The best way to experimentally test effective asymptotic view of atoms as electric multipoles (static + oscillating) is exactly through scattering with low energy electrons - they are charged and very light.
    It was introduced not by me, but in Gryzinski's 1970 paper ( http://journals.aps.org/prl/ab…10.1103/PhysRevLett.24.45 , then extended in his 1975 papers) as classical explanation for Ramsauer effect, which was previously believed to be purely quantum ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…r%E2%80%93Townsend_effect )



    However, this is only asymptotic behavior - while crossing from pico- to femto-meter distance, which is the most crucial during nuclear fusion, the electron cloud of a given atom becomes nearly negligible - the incoming particle feels practically only the charge of the nucleus ... unless there is electron staying between them.


    To support that, I have cited the screening coefficients for shell electrons:
    Z_eff = Z - s

    As you can see - this screening quickly drops with the distance (shell number) from nucleus: for 1s orbital, the screening is between 1 and 2. So dozens of electrons in such atom, are felt by 1s electron as just a ~2 elementary charges.
    And 1s electron is ~10^-10m distance - getting to femtometer distance, this screening goes to practically 0.
    This vanishing of screening is a consequence of the shell theorem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem


    So screening of shell electrons is practically negligible during the most crucial part of fusion process (pico->femtomemter, Coulomb potential says that you need 1000x more energy to get to 1fm than to 1pm).
    The only hope for fusion in 1000K is that a single electron stays between these two collapsing nuclei.

  • Ok — I will not further distract from the purpose of this thread of exploring Gryzinski's explanation in the context of an understanding of LENR that involves fusion. That you cannot imagine LENR being explained by something else is not uncommon. I'll just add that in adopting this line of reasoning you're giving yourself some difficulties that you'll need to handle, such as explaining the absence of the emission of an MeV gamma from the excited compound nucleus after the proton has (somehow) been pushed into the nickel nucleus.


    The Ramsauer effect is interesting; I'll try to better understand it.


    However, this is only asymptotic behavior - while crossing from pico- to femto-meter distance, which is the most crucial during nuclear fusion, the electron cloud of a given atom becomes nearly negligible - the incoming particle feels practically only the charge of the nucleus ... unless there is electron staying between them.


    I think we're thinking of electrons in the present context differently. You're thinking of individual low-energy electrons that are scattering off of ion cores. I'm thinking of an electron fluid in a solid state environment, which exerts its own force, and I'm thinking of "electron density" (a kind of probability) rather than individual electrons and two-body scatterings.

  • That you cannot imagine LENR being explained by something else is not uncommon.


    This is the common argument from ignorance. I.e, there is a mystery, something unexpected with standard thinking. The argument from ignorance runs in two directions.


    1. There must be a mistake, because I can't understand how this could happen. (This is a common "mainstream" reaction.) (This is sometimes stated as "it's impossible.")
    2. This must be X, because I can't think of any other explanation. (This is a common "fringe believer" reaction.) (This is sometimes stated as "It's proven!")


    Neither of these is "scientific." What is properly an allocation of resources heuristic (I'm not going to waste time checking out the person across town who claims to have a dragon in his garage, because that this is real is so unlikely it is not worth my time -- which is a reasonable response) becomes a reason to reject evidence as "probably wrong." That depends on belief in what is established, which, again, is routine, but if "believed" becomes an obstacle to the growth of knowledge, and especially in areas where "growth" could be enormous, we have become frozen into a very limited world.


    Both of these depend on a failure of imagination. If one cannot imagine how LENR might happen, one's imagination is deficient. And if one cannot imaging how evidence could be deceptive, one's imagination is deficient.


    I vote for imagination, in both cases. I love imagination. What it invents can be useful or otherwise, but opening that door does not actually cause brains to fall out. We actually get smarter, and life opens up.

  • Eric, regarding me being fixed on electron remaining between the two nuclei as the only reasonable explanation for hypothetical fusion in 1000K, so we had 260 posts in this thread and I honestly haven't seen any other reasonable explanation here (?)
    Chemistry, charge concentration, screening, topological defects etc. might be sufficient for taking two nuclei to picometer distance ... but fusion requires thousand times smaller distance, and so thousand times larger energy (V ~ 1/r).
    This is just far beyond such "electron-cloud-related" explanations - it is a completely different energy scale.
    If it's impossible for an electron to stay between the two nuclei, for this moment I don't see fusion in 1000K realistic - especially that it's hard to believe that nearly 30 years is not sufficient to get a single really clear demonstration.


    Regarding effective asymptotic treatment of atom as effective multipole, this is only one of many ways that can be used to test models of atoms in various scattering experiments.
    Scattering is nearly a direct way to ask nature about the structure of atom, and various scattering scenarios was the basic way for Gryzinski to infer and test his model - these his papers have >2000 citations: https://scholar.google.pl/scholar?hl=en&q=gryzinski

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