[feedquote='E-Cat World','http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/06/09/if-you-were-in-andrea-rossis-shoes-what-would-you-have-done-andy-kumar/']Thanks to Andy Kumar for this suggestion for a thread While we are waiting for the commercial release of the e-cat, I was wondering if the e-cat followers here would have taken a different path than what Dr. Rossi has chosen. Admin could start a separate thread on the topic. If I were in Rossi’s […][/feedquote]
If You Were in Andrea Rossi’s Shoes, What Would You have Done? (Andy Kumar)
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Well, I am not much into scam and fraud, so I would most definitely have taken a different path. Given I still had my sanity.
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Andy,
My reply to this question on ECW got deleted - in fact I'm now permanently banned from ECW. That seems surprising since I am always polite there and contribute to the science discussion (well, actually, I'm one of the very few people who does science discussion).
So imagine my shock when this very 'ECW-friendly" reply got me banned. I read the other replies to your question there and this seemed very much in their spirit.
QuoteRossi has, so far, forgone the public adulation that his great invention surely merits for only 5 years.Perhaps, given that he seems quite fit and well-tanned – from sunbeds it seems – he expects to live till at least 90. I’m sure that his condos in Florida speak to his natural wish to live in comfort after his great work is complete.In which case another 10 years or so in secrecy would not be unreasonable.“A pleasure delayed is twice as sweet”And, anyway, while still awaiting the public recognition he deserves does he not have the support and devotion of a large number of readers of his blog? That must go some way to satisfying any human need that he has for approbation.Still, I recommend everyone here who looks forward to the change in lifestyle that Rossi’s invention will make throughout the world to go to his Blog and show, through favourable comments, that they appreciate his self-sacrifice. IMHO, the most helpful posts there would be just slightly combative: I’m sure Rossi gets bored with those who seem to fawn. If you properly acknowledge his superior knowledge and intellect I think he will appreciate being challenged.
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Beside the understatement against Rossi, you raise interesting question.
This kind of people prefer to be challenged than caressed, and most of them will work as long as they can walk.
One thing important to remind is that E-cat is now the product of Tom darden and [lexicon]industrial Heat[/lexicon] in Cherokee fund.
This is no more a personal story, and this may even worry Rossi who will not love to see his baby grow up and be independent.The delay to market is an interesting question.
From Ferrara and Lugano we see that E-cat is at the reliable prototype stage, but not yet industrial. The test plant may fail for a plumbing, or nuclear,reason, not invalidating LENR but demanding few years of work...
However not 5 years... in case of catastrophe, industrialization should take 2-3 years more...see how long it took to industrialize the transistor, the electric engine, the plane.
plane was flying about 1905, but in 1914 it was mostly prototypes who were directing shelling on the front... but in 4 years there was plane combat in the sky.
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Andy,
My reply to this question on ECW got deleted - in fact I'm now permanently banned from ECW. That seems surprising since I am always polite there and contribute to the science discussion (well, actually, I'm one of the very few people who does science discussion).
So imagine my shock when this very 'ECW-friendly" reply got me banned. I read the other replies to your question there and this seemed very much in their spirit.
That is curious. I suppose that it was not just this post, but perhaps the aggregation of quite a number of them. Finally, a bit a facetiousness might have been percieved (rightly or wrongly) and that kicked the switch. Of course, as a distance runner myself, I suppose it might have offended Rossi to be thought of in the "sunbed" set. If you live in Florida, you get tanned very easily, even with sunblock and hats, I've found. I've thought of answering the question "what would you do in Rossi's shoes" well I'd hope to have the ability to run ultramarathons at the 150 km level and above. Frankly I can't ever do that, too damned big, plantar fasciitis takes over at above 50 miles a week of training....
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Quote from Longview
a bit a facetiousness might have been percieved (rightly or wrongly) and that kicked the switch.
Quite a lot of facetiousness in that comment. But I believe it was almost indistinguishable in tone from many typical ECW comments. And my previous posts were just pointing out science issues, or their consequences.
I find it reprehensible that ECW does not post the Lugano recalculation paper. It can be criticised, and would if posted on ECW. But it is relevant to all the people doing replications, and without doubt of interest.
Tom
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I agree! Censoring communication is the enemy of scientific and technological progress.
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I agree! Censoring communication is the enemy of scientific and technological progress.
Nowadays, it is so easy to be smart. But, as always, even easier to be a complete moron.
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[feedquote='E-Cat World','http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/06/09/if-you-were-in-andrea-rossis-shoes-what-would-you-have-done-andy-kumar/']Thanks to Andy Kumar for this suggestion for a thread While we are waiting for the commercial release of the e-cat, I was wondering if the e-cat followers here would have taken a different path than what Dr. Rossi has chosen. Admin could start a separate thread on the topic. If I were in Rossi’s […][/feedquote]
His patent application was rejected ostensibly because he didnt tell them details about the nickel based catalyst he was using. He kept too much secret. He should have put as much info as possible about the composition and variation of the catalyst he observed in experiments. He was too suspicious about other parties stealing the catalyst after he published the patent. He probably would have been protected and progress on his reactors would have taken place quicker.
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The mysterious nickel catalyst that sometimes works and sometimes does not. Something like the F&P Pd catalyst. No one really understands the basics of this fusion reaction, Andrea Rossi included. Seems typical of a good research scientist who does not like to publish details about what he doesn't understand . Very easy to keep secret something you don't know.
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If I was in his shoes, I would probably be a lot more open about how the E-CAT works. I say this because it appears to be the most advanced and refined LENR reactor around. If he had of been able to deliver the ECAT in a reasonable timeframe I would say that the privatisation of his work is 100% perfectly acceptable and encouraged. However, the huge delays and subsequent secrecy shrouding the ECAT have robbed the world of what could be the most promising energy source known to mankind for several years now.
I respect the man greatly, but I think that not making the ECAT even slightly more open-source then it is currently doesn't play nicely with the open-science trend in LENR research that has proven to be of great use. Alas, his reactors are starting to be (crudely)replicated anyway and it could only be a matter of months before someone develops a reactor on par with his.Imagine what could of happened if he let the world know about what was happening inside of the ECAT that makes it tick so well. We would of had hundreds of people working around the globe on getting cold fusion to market, and the whole thing could of happened a lot faster.
In saying that, I really hope he gets to market soon, he deserves the success that would accompany. I think he should make the US Patent open-source though: That would help the cause of LENR dramatically.
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"Imagine what could of happened if he let the world know about what was happening inside of the ECAT that makes it tick so well. We would of had hundreds of people working around the globe on getting cold fusion to market, and the whole thing could of happened a lot faster."
Yeah I can imagine the impact on the World Economy that "Free Energy" would have. Without a great deal of planning the switch from burning oil for heat to hydrogen fusion would be devastating. Fortunately we have very intelligent planners in control that will ease introduction of this transition. Many people depend on their survival related to jobs in oil production. I like your reference to the ECAT ticking so well, sort of like a time bomb.
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"Imagine what could of happened if he let the world know about what was happening inside of the ECAT that makes it tick so well. We would of had hundreds of people working around the globe on getting cold fusion to market, and the whole thing could of happened a lot faster."
Yeah I can imagine the impact on the World Economy that "Free Energy" would have. Without a great deal of planning the switch from burning oil for heat to hydrogen fusion would be devastating. Fortunately we have very intelligent planners in control that will ease introduction of this transition. Many people depend on their survival related to jobs in oil production. I like your reference to the ECAT ticking so well, sort of like a time bomb.
You raise a good point there that I hadn't thought about. It could definitely have a devastating effect. As for those people who depend on oil production for a job: No amount of easing will help that problem, unless you're talking about a 2-decade long transition. If it wasn't for the devastating effects fossil fuel production and usage was having on the world, I would be fine with that. But action will have to be more drastic then that and it probably will be.
Also, there is nothing "Free" about LENR reactors. They cost less for energy production that's for sure, but everything has a price.
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Nanoscale reactors seem to tap into a mysterious energy source that has been referred to as "free". That's what I was referring to. Transmutation is responsible either at low amu or relativily high amu. Now it appears that it's not a free energy source. I'll have to revise my definition.
What devastating effects fossil fuel usage on the world? Carbon dioxide is the product and is quickly dissolved in the ocean or lakes and accounts for mineral growth. I measured the CO2 level in the atmosphere 50 years ago and see the same level now. Of course, the vast quantity of water will establish the level and maintain it constant. We like to overemphasize our piddling effect on the global situation. Volcanic activity in one large scale eruption overwhelms many years of our contribution of CO2, SO2 and H2S. It will probably be more than a 2-decade long transition to ease the economic effect, probably at least a century or more.
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I measured the CO2 level in the atmosphere 50 years ago and see the same level now. Of course, the vast quantity of water will establish the level and maintain it constant. We like to overemphasize our piddling effect on the global situation. Volcanic activity in one large scale eruption overwhelms many years of our contribution of CO2, SO2 and H2S.
Everyone else who has measured CO2 levels over the past 50 years has noticed approximately a 25% increase.
Oceanic absorption of CO2 is generally not regarded as a good thing: It lowers it's pH.
Volcanic eruptions and leakages account for about 2% of annual CO2 emissions. (600m tonnes vs. 30b tonnes)
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Nanoscale reactors seem to tap into a mysterious energy source that has been referred to as "free". That's what I was referring to. Transmutation is responsible either at low amu or relativily high amu. Now it appears that it's not a free energy source. I'll have to revise my definition.
What devastating effects fossil fuel usage on the world? Carbon dioxide is the product and is quickly dissolved in the ocean or lakes and accounts for mineral growth. I measured the CO2 level in the atmosphere 50 years ago and see the same level now. Of course, the vast quantity of water will establish the level and maintain it constant. We like to overemphasize our piddling effect on the global situation. Volcanic activity in one large scale eruption overwhelms many years of our contribution of CO2, SO2 and H2S. It will probably be more than a 2-decade long transition to ease the economic effect, probably at least a century or more.
I am sure you know that CO2 in water forms the weak "carbonic acid". In water, CO2 acts as an acidifier, and hence is more likely to account for demineralization.How many of your CO2 data points were taken from 50 years back? And how many recently? And were those taken from thousands of sites, globally? It does not take too much reading to see that we have signficant increase in global atmospheric CO2. For most, this is no longer a contentious issue. The main point now argued by a small minority of former "deniers" is that "it may not be man-made".
So, perhaps this CO2 talk is off topic. Arguing against global climate change here, from anecdotal data, is not likely to produce converts. Although it may make you a quite unique advocate for LENR. Most enthusiasts for LENR / CANR / CF accept that fossil fuels burning must be curtailed. I believe most here on this Forum also view LENR etc, as a possible "lease on life" for our planet, precisely because it forestalls and perhaps avoids fossil fuel combustion.
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Rossi could get a patent rapidly if he would show up at the patent office with a credible and truly independent test, officially done, by a major university or government lab. Or, better yet, two or three such tests done by different and unrelated organizations using method that they chose without his influence. He could also conduct a special demonstration for the patent office TO THEIR SPECIFICATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS. The experiments Rossi has allowed, all by individual professors working unofficially and on their own time, and done completely without proper calibration and control blanks, are worthless and THAT is reason he has been unable to publish in main line journals, why the AP and other major news sources pay no attention to him, and the patent office rejects his applications.
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"Everyone else who has measured CO2 levels over the past 50 years has noticed approximately a 25% increase."
25% increase seems like a huge amount, when stated in concentration in parts per million then and now it seems like a piddling amount. Reporting "% increase" reveals a hidden agenda.
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Stating that "Volcanic activity in one large scale eruption overwhelms many years of our contribution of CO2, SO2 and H2S" reveals a reliance on very poor sources, which suggests you are happy to follow someone else's agenda.
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Nanoscale reactors seem to tap into a mysterious energy source that has been referred to as "free". That's what I was referring to. Transmutation is responsible either at low amu or relativily high amu. Now it appears that it's not a free energy source. I'll have to revise my definition.
What devastating effects fossil fuel usage on the world? Carbon dioxide is the product and is quickly dissolved in the ocean or lakes and accounts for mineral growth. I measured the CO2 level in the atmosphere 50 years ago and see the same level now. Of course, the vast quantity of water will establish the level and maintain it constant. We like to overemphasize our piddling effect on the global situation. Volcanic activity in one large scale eruption overwhelms many years of our contribution of CO2, SO2 and H2S. It will probably be more than a 2-decade long transition to ease the economic effect, probably at least a century or more.
A CENTURY LONG? Screw that. If I get a reactor that has a COP of over 6, I'm releasing it commercially and the construction open source ASAP. I was not just referring tot he CO2 levels. Although if you do some basic ecology, there is more gaseous carbon dioxide in the ecosystem then ever before. Before you argue with me, go on the internet and search what I mean.
I'm referring to habitat destruction and atmospheric pollution mainly. Also, fossil fuel's have maybe 25-50 year of fuel yet. Sure, if you want to wait to then to switch to another energy source go ahead. Let's watch anarchy unfold while eating popcorn and pointing at all the people killing each other.
If I had the chance to flood the world with the cleanest, cheapest, most powerful energy source ever discovered by man I wouldn't hesitate.
