Testing Edmund Storms Hydroton theory

    • Official Post

    From exchanges on CMNS, Peter Gluck reports the announce by Edmund Storms of his project to test his theory experimentally :



    Positive or negative, the result will make LENR theory advance. :thumbup:

  • as far as I know his organization is
    "LENRGY, LLC, Santa Fe, NM, USA,"


    LLC probably mean commercial (I'm not a US lawyer).


    Thanks Alain, I hope someone who knows Dr. Storms, or he himself might see my inquiry. For those in the US, the 501 c3 designation is not difficult to acquire. Once in place, it assentially allows others to donate money toward one's non-profit efforts, and for such a donor to realize a tax deduction for that charitable donation.


    And I am also not an attorney, nor a CPA, so do your own due diligence in pursuing this route toward funding. It is a worthwhile effort in my opinion, for anyone in the LENR field.

    • Official Post

    On the site dedicated to his latest book "LENR Explained" about his theory, Edmund Storms publish this announce with a progress report.


    Currently it describe the experimental setup (electrochemical cell in a seebeck calorimeter).
    Pictures are missing in the report, but this one in the article give you vision of the setup.


    • Official Post

    Edmund Storms just said that The calibration of his seebeck calorimeter is done.


    Quote


    A Seebeck calorimeter uses thermoelectric converters (TEC) to create a voltage proportional to the rate at which heat energy leaves the calorimeter. The present design consists of a water-cooled aluminum box with TEC covering the inside of each surface. Consequently, the amount of heat energy leaving the box is measured regardless of where this loss takes place. A calibration using a known source of heat energy is required to calibrate the device.




    If I understand well, it will be able to detect excess heat above 50mW.

    Quote


    Two different types of uncertainty affect the values of excess power. Accuracy of the absolute value of excess power depends on the care used in measuring the power applied to the calorimeter as current and voltage and the care used in achieving a calibration equation largely independent of random variations in the Seebeck voltage. The second more common uncertainty is created by changes in the reference temperature that cause random fluctuations in the Seebeck voltage. The set value of the reference temperature is not important; only its variation with time has a noticeable effect. These variations create an error band that is most noticeable at low excess power. Both of these potential errors can be evaluated by applying the chosen calibration equation to an electrolytic cell known not to produce any excess. The apparent excess power is shown in Fig. 7 as a function of time after various values of current are applied to the electrolytic cell. The cell takes about 40 minutes to reach equilibrium and maintains a value within about 50 mW of zero excess energy, which is the magnitude of the random uncertainty. Based on this behavior, a claim for excess energy requires an apparent excess energy greater than 50 mW and all individual values for excess energy can be considered uncertain by ±50 mW. A large part of this uncertainty results from random temperature changes in the flowing water used to produce the reference temperature and changes in room temperature.


    It is calibrated through either an electrolytic cell, a resistor in the cell, or quartz light tubes.

    Quote


    Two different methods are used to apply known heat energy, with several variations involving the electrolytic cell or resistors external to the cell. Electric power can be supplied to the electrolytic cell containing a platinum cathode, which is presumed to produce no excess energy. Or electric power can be applied to a glass covered internal resistor located in the electrolyte, as can be seen in Fig. 1.
    The electrolytic cell can be removed and two quartz light bulbs (12 V, 50 watt) can be substituted for the resistive load provided by the electrolytic cell and the internal resistor, as shown in Fig. 2. These sources of heat are totally independent of the electrolytic cell and any chemical reaction that might take place therein. In addition, their use allows the calibration to be extended to higher power than the electrolytic cell permits because boiling of the electrolyte limits the maximum power.


    The apparatus is designed to apply power to the internal resistor during electrolysis for the purpose of changing the cathode temperature without changing the current applied to the cathode. This applied power must have the same effect on the Seebeck voltage as do the other sources of applied power, hence requires calibration. The circuit used to switch power to the internal resistor from a separate power supply can be seen in Fig. 3.


    Some isoperibolic calorimetry method in the electrolytic cell will be able to confirm the seebeck measurement, but will be less precise.

    Quote

    When the electrolytic cell is used, another method to measure excess energy becomes available. The difference in temperature between the electrolyte and the surrounding air in the Seebeck box can be used as an isoperibolic calorimeter to obtain a rough measure of power being generated in the cell. Figure 6 shows the relationship between this temperature difference and power applied to the electrolytic cell when using a platinum cathode. Because temperature gradients exist in the electrolyte, this method is suitable only to verify excess energy is being generated as indicated more accurately by the Seebeck method.


    Edmund Storms allowed me to publish it here (it will be published too on lenrexplained).
    PROGRESS REPORT #2.pdf


    Competent people will sure appreciate more.


    to appreciate what he have done, some may love to read this student guide to cold fusion :
    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEastudentsg.pdf


    or his big book
    http://www.amazon.com/Science-…mprehensive/dp/9812706208


    by the way it may give ideas to replicators... (power and temperature are not the same, but...)

    • Official Post

    The progress report is published on lenrexplained
    http://lenrexplained.com/2015/08/progress-report-2/


    nice photo of the cell and calorimeter


    • Official Post

    Edmund Storms will publish soon a 3rd progress report on LENRexplained.com


    He observed and corrected a calorimeter drift, caused by "curing". It was observed during a routine recalibration. (NB: I see here the fruit of a long experience, I take lessons).
    He also worked on PdAg alloy preparation which is not easy (need H2 O2 flame), the activation of the surface (need avoid Cl contamination) and measurement of composition by EDX...

    • Official Post

    Peter Gluck report more informations from exchange with edmund Storms
    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.f…-booksnot-elegy-plus.html


    Quote from "Peter Gluck"


    PROGRESS REPORT #3.pdf


    I have asked Ed for some details and here is his answer (thanks for the permission to share them with the readers):

    • Official Post

    The report #3 is published on lenrexplained
    http://lenrexplained.com/2015/08/progress-report-3/




    Quote


    Preparation of samples: The samples are prepared by melting together Pd and Ag using a flame. The initial flame used LP gas and oxygen, which placed significant carbon in the material and caused many blisters to form on the surface after reaction with deuterium. These blisters interfere with making an accurate measurement of thickness.


    Fig. 2 shows a large blister on a typical sample. Many of the blisters were too small to detect by eye. In addition, the flame was not hot enough to fully melt the entire sample, leaving an unmelted region where the sample contacted the graphite sheet on which it rested. Consequently, a uniform composition of silver was difficult to achieve.



    ...

    • Official Post

    Edmund storms continue his work, and will publish the 4th progress report on lenrexplained.com soon.


    He explore the behavior of various PdAg alloys, expansion, loading, Open Circuit Voltage (an indicator of surface state, loading...).


    Great job from my point of view... To understand what he does, reading his first book "the science of LENr" is useful.

    • Official Post

    Here the article about this 4th progress report, on LENR explained :
    http://lenrexplained.com/2015/…t-of-important-variables/


    the report is there as PDF:
    http://lenrexplained.com/wp-co…/08/PROGRESS-REPORT-4.pdf



    • Official Post

    Edmund storms publish on LENRExplained a 5th progress report.
    this time ther is some apparent anomalous heat.
    The work, as usual for Ed Storms is very cautious, and precision is great compared to the signal observed.


    http://lenrexplained.com/2015/09/progress-report-5/
    http://lenrexplained.com/wp-co…/09/PROGRESS-REPORT-5.pdf




    • Official Post

    The result are signigicant.


    For me the best result, is not the excess heat (+360mW compared to +/-20mW, about 9 sigma ) but correlation of heat with mesured radiation.It is well described in section 2, page 4


    In this study, a large GM detector is placed within 2 cm of the cell wall and the detected radiation is required to pass through about 1 cm of electrolyte and through 1 mm of Pyrex. A photograph of the arrangement is shown as Fig. 3 in Report #1. The surface of the cathode is parallel to the surface of the GM detector. The normal flux in the absence of any radiation generated by the electrolytic cell is about 70 c/s. A similar GM detector is located about 3 meters from the cell outside of the calorimeter and is used to detect changes in background radiation. No changed in background radiation flux is observed during these studies.


    ...


    Although the measured radiation flux is small, it correlates with the amount of power produced. The detected radiation is expected to be a small fraction of that being generated at the cathode and would consist mainly of the high-energy tail. Having samples able to generate more excess power will make possible measurement of the energy. Now that radiation can be detected, use of cells having a thin window is encouraged in order to increase the amount detected. This study will be continued in the future.


    another result is the evidence that the local temperature is a key parameter, compared to current density.



    The previous interpretation of how applied current affects power production is wrong. The important variable is actually the temperature change caused by the applied current. The composition at the surface produced by the current is apparently not important. Instead, small changes in temperature determine how much power can be produced by the nuclear reaction, which is an amazing realization. Now theory must explain how this effect is possible. Consequently, this behavior has important implications to the creation of an explanation for the LENR process. At the very least any theory proposing to cause LENR at low temperature can be rejected. Now that temperature is found to be the important variable for creating excess energy, use of high-applied current in future studies is no longer required. Several advantages become apparent. Use of a low-applied current will reduce the amount of impurity deposited on the surface and the tendency for the cell to explode when the recombiner fails will be reduced.


    in the future he plan to test the effect of Laser light, like other did (Dennis letts ,...)..

    • Official Post

    Jed Rothwell publish a page on this experiment,
    http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=1714



    There is a sub-blog on lenrexplained.com :
    http://lenrexplained.com/tag/progress-report/


    note that the report have been corrected.
    http://lenrexplained.com/wp-co…SS-REPORT-5-corrected.pdf
    I remember that there was an error in the count of radiation, in cpm, not cps (per minute, not per second).

    • Official Post

    Edmund Storms will publish soon a 6th report, which mostly continue like 5th.


    One goal was to study the method to make the palladium active.


    The calorimeter behave well and suffer from no drift.


    It seems the radiation observed (report 5) is (mostly) an artifact, linked to temperature.

    • Official Post

    Here is the article on Cold Fusion Now


    This report extends the insights described in Report #5 and shows that several common conclusions about LENR are wrong. These errors have handicapped efforts to achieve reproducibility and have lead several theories in the wrong direction.


    PROGRESS-REPORT-6 Additional behavior of pure PdD (1.3Mb)


    Temperature plays a significant role in affecting the amount of power produced by LENR. The activation energy for power production is very similar to the activation energy for diffusion of D in PdD. This behavior is consistent with my theory in which temperature is described as helping D reach the NAE by diffusion through the surrounding lattice.

  • I can not wait for the next episode. Edmund is a very good writer, as also a very good expirimentalist. I would have loved to work with him on those topics.


    I hope he will be successful to explain, or at least give hints to the activation process which something that Rossi keep absolutely secret.

  • HOW TO RESPOND TO Dr STORMS EXPERIMENT (in a single unedited post):


    (1) Point out something missing from the report...


    Quote

    Shane, would you like to analyse how significant are the claims of excess power proportional to temperature increase (and therefore applied electrical power)?
    You won’t find it easy, because the writeup here does not directly relate excess power to applied power, even when the ratio is crucial and tells you how marginal are the results.


    (2) Make up a number out of thin air. You are an expert after all...


    Quote

    However I’d guess the apparent excess power is around 2% of the input power.


    (3) ATTACK! Reference the number you just made up...


    Quote

    These results are scientifically bankrupt, because they do not even remotely demonstrate anything extraordinary. The author does not seem bothered. If he were, he would with utmost care examine the ways in which this slight error might be an artifact proportional to temperature or applied power.


    (4) Throw in a quick argumentum ad populum, whilst besmirching the whole field...

    Quote

    Anyone outside the LENR field, with a 2% linear with temperature increase error in a calorimeter, would immediately check carefully for calibration errors. The exact proportionality is a give away.


    (5) Toss in a quick red-herring...


    Quote

    No chemical or other process would be expected to be sensitive to temperature difference between ambient and the reactor in this fashion


    (6) GET PERSONAL! Castigate everybody involved for their foolishness...


    Quote

    You have to ask: are these guys laughing at us? Or just incompetent.
    However, they seem to provide good PR, enough to sway people like you?


    Absolutley charming, Thomas.




    Sometimes it's better to ask, than to make things up:
    http://lenrexplained.com/2015/09/progress-report-6/#comments


    :lenr:

    • Official Post

    Edmund Storms publish his conclusion, that temperature is the main driving factor.


    Quote


    ...

    • The LENR process is not initiated when a sample of Pd is initially loaded to high composition. Additional treatment is required to cause the LENR process to start. Once this additional treatment is successful, LENR will take place over a very wide range of deuterium concentration, even after all D is removed and the sample is again reacted with D.
    • Only certain batches of Pd can be activated. One of the requirements for successful activation is lack of significant excess volume formation when the Pd is reacted with D.
    • Excess power produced by an activated sample is very reproducible once it is initiated as long as the surface is not removed. This behavior is consistent with the surface being the location of the nuclear reaction based on the behavior of helium release.
    • Once the LENR process starts, the amount of current applied as electrolytic current has no effect on the amount of excess power produced. Only the temperature of the active surface has any effect on excess power production, with higher temperatures producing greater excess power. We can assume that once a sample is activated, simply exposing it to D2 gas and heating it would cause excess power production. In other words once the sample of Pd is activated, use of electrolysis is no longer necessary.
    • The activation energy for excess power production based on the temperature effect is similar to the value for the activation energy for diffusion of D in PdD. We can assume excess power production is controlled by how fast the D can diffuse from the surrounding lattice to the NAE where the nuclear reaction occurs.
    • So called life-after-death will result in eventual destruction of the sample if the temperature is not controlled, as some people have observed. In other words, the system suffers from positive feedback as Rossi has also experienced using the Ni-H2 system. This positive feed back is generally not observed because the amount of power produced relative to the rate at which it can be lost is small.
    • Once the role of electrolytic current is understood, the F-P method can be seen to have the same basic behavior as all methods found to initiate LENR, including the Ni-H2 system. In other words, no reasons exists based on observed behavior to consider the Pd-D2 system different from the Ni-H2 system. Only the reacting isotopes are different which naturally would produce different nuclear products.

    ...

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