Airbus & LENR : "The Challenge"

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    Opening the ISCMNS Workshop on LENR in Toulouse, Jean-Francois Geneste (Executive Chief Scientist of Airbus Innovation) have presented the Chalenge to LENR innovators .


    This challenge was presented initially during the LENRG event organized by LENR-Cities in Milan just before ICCF19 :
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/foru…y-Milano-Airbus-and-LENR/


    Here are the slides of his presentation
    0-1 introduction.pdf


    The Challenge is based on a thermoacoustic engine they developed for space applications, and will be black box but independent (no interference) :


    There are also some slides about their interest in LENR, not for plane propulsion, but for space applications, and APU energy.


    And one slide, on the need of some theory, at least a phenomenological formula.


    For space propulsion, I think the Papp engine would be a better fit than a heat engine. I am starting to become convinced that it's real, as well as that what's going on with it is related to PdD LENR helium production.


    It is a bit unfortunate that so little is known about this engine that focusing on it would not be an effective way to win over Airbus engineers.

    ^If you mean you're convinced the Papp engine is real, you are beyond all resonable help.


    But it does not amaze me. That's how it must be to believe crazy things: if you believe in one, it is natural to believe an other.

    • Official Post

    So this challenge shows that Airbus itself is not interested in LENR yet?


    It is just and only Geneste who is working on it in his spare time because of his personal interest?
    Did I understand this correctly? He has no official order to work on this?


    Oh man, I'm getting more and more disappointed by this conference...

    Papp was a schizophrenic, sociopathic con man. A relative of mine was a physician who treated him in the 1960's for a self-inflicted gun shot wound. Papp claimed a hit man did it. According to my relative, who knew Papp, the guy was a flaming nut case. A total whack job. BTW, noble gases do not and can not provide free energy.

    • Official Post

    As I understand Brillouin is working on it's own solution. with a classical stirling.
    Hydrofusion is linked to Rossi, and share the same problem as Lugano test replication.
    For Neofire I don't know their level of development, but it may not be enough performant or reliable.


    Another explanation is that they don't read LENR-Forum enough, and missed the report on Milano LENRG Event :D .

    Well. Geneste obviously lost his marbles, so it is somewhat interesting to see, how much longer he can continue using Airbus' name in connection with his fantasies.

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    Papp was a schizophrenic, sociopathic con man. A relative of mine was a physician who treated him in the 1960's for a self-inflicted gun shot wound. Papp claimed a hit man did it. According to my relative, who knew Papp, the guy was a flaming nut case. A total whack job. BTW, noble gases do not and can not provide free energy.


    Everything you say may be 100 percent true, and Papp's engine might still have had something cool going on with it. In particular, I think the electric arcing might have accelerated the decay of the thorium alpha emitter he was using. Do you disagree that this might be something that is possible?

    • Official Post

    Papp engine is missing a clear description and replications.


    It is far from the level of replications and scientific data available for classic PdD LENR, and even for NiH or Plasmoid...
    I will not invest a cent on it, but if someone can propose a design to test...

    Quote

    Papp's engine might still have had something cool going on with it.


    I suppose so, in the same sense as "pigs can fly." It sure was cool as a scam though, until it blew up, killing a man during a demo. Papp said it was because Feynman unplugged it but that is very unlikely. More probably, Papp had it rigged with explosives or an explosive fuel-air mixture.


    http://hoaxes.org/comments/papparticle2.html

    BTW, Geneste doesn't work for Airbus. He works for a small subsidiary called Airbus Group Innovations which is specifically tasked with doing "way out" research and investigations. There is no official endorsement of anything related to Geneste and LENR within Airbus, the large aircraft manufacturer. If you can find to the contrary, I'd love to see the link or cite.

    Yeah, read the article and the other stuff available. "Hoax" and "scam" are what the wikipedia guardians and Feynman called it.


    Quote from Mary Yugo

    I suppose so, in the same sense as "pigs can fly."


    Here is why I think it might have been real:


    http://physics.stackexchange.com/q/212660/6713


    Hopefully you will be kind enough to apply your knowledge of this area of physics to answer my question negatively, which will benefit the physics graduate students and professors who, along with me, are waiting for an answer.

    Geneste has been titled as "executive chief scientist" at Airbus innovation. I think I have read that title at least on E-Nut World, maybe here too (hrmmmhh..)


    But is he?


    If he is not, whatta hell are you whackoes talking about?

    • Official Post

    Please get better information On Airbus.
    I made an article on Airbus Innovations.


    Jean Botti , CEO of Airbus Innovation is in charge of innovation (Chief Innovation Officer), but also of group IT architecture, of group technical choice.
    Jean-Francois Geneste is qualified as "Executive Chief Scientist", which is the highest level for experts for that organization.
    He participate the group Executive Committee (ExCom).


    You should also wonder what is doing Bernhard Kotzias with LENR. Sure someone with more information that you have.


    what is shocking me, comparing your positions of skeptic, the media silence, and the authorities silent tolerance in public, and many discrete commitments, is that no control authority, no academic authority, no funding agency, does moan about what is happening.


    In fact I know why.
    This is just an evidence that we are fooled by media and that politicians have no bollocks, but are not stupid and have informations.
    No news in fact.

    With due respect, isn't Papp producing rotary power? If so, how can that be useful in free space? I suppose that the "thrust" can to used to do work on something other than a piston or turbine. I suppose that puts us back to ion thrust engines, which work OK in space. But of course I am ignoring the novel drives presented here recently. Forgive my "addiction" to conservation of momentum. It is a reflection of "old physics" admittedly.


    BTW, What is good reference link for Papp, that you find convincing and simple enough for those with at least basic college physics and chemistry for majors. Thanks!

    Quote from Longview

    I suppose that the "thrust" can to used to do work on something other than a piston or turbine. I suppose that puts us back to ion thrust engines, which work OK in space.


    That's the idea I had. Take thorium and shine a laser at it or run a current through it, and, if my hunch is correct, the activity will increase during the laser pulse or current. This would, then, be an enhancement of the existing ion-thrust approach. If we had a LENR battery, it could be used to drive the laser or electric current.


    The Papp engine comes in only insofar as Papp might have been exploiting a previously unknown detail about alpha emitters such as thorium.

    Quote from Longview

    BTW, What is good reference link for Papp, that you find convincing and simple enough for those with at least basic college physics and chemistry for majors. Thanks!


    Papp's third patent provides a good technical overview [1]. Beware, though, because he either made the whole thing unnecessarily complex (e.g., with the description of the complex set of steps needed to prepare the gasses) or his lack of mental balance led him into whacked out theories on what was going on. A pair of entrepreneurs who think they figured out what made the engine work think that noble gasses aren't even needed and that air can be used [2]. That points another finger to whatever was being subjected to the electric arcing (e.g., thorium) rather than a special mix of noble gasses.


    All of this aside, one thing that is cool about the engine design is that if you can control the activity of an alpha emitter, using it to ionize and expand an inert gas sounds like a very efficient way to make use of the energy that has been released.


    [1] https://www.google.com/patents/US4428193
    [2] http://bit.ly/1W4o44d

    Thanks Eric. Interesting.


    Thorium sounds like a good candidate. Are there lighter weight alpha emitters that might give much higher output to mass ratio for such application?. Of course it would have to be an alpha emitter with relatively long natural half life, otherwise it would be exhausted too fast for long endurance power output.


    Is there other evidence of laser stimulation of alpha decay other than say Letts / Hagelstein?... it is a fascinating idea to me.


    And of course we have Lipinski UGC which would use lithium 7 and hydrogen (via microwave proton generators, as described many times in Review of Scientific Instruments, and elsewhere). I never thought of theirs being a candidate deep space sustained thrust source before.... it is really a very clear application, with the lightest possible fuels and surely very high specific impulse for the functional equivalent of an "ion" engine.

Subscribe to our newsletter

It's sent once a month, you can unsubscribe at anytime!

View archive of previous newsletters

* indicates required

Your email address will be used to send you email newsletters only. See our Privacy Policy for more information.

Our Partners

Supporting researchers for over 20 years
Want to Advertise or Sponsor LENR Forum?
CLICK HERE to contact us.