What LENR companies to invest in?

1st Official Post

    I read the latest article on E-catworld with great interest. It’s no doubt that this will be huge in a few years. LENR could be taking off any time soon, especially when Rossi’s one year test is finished in Feb/Mar. It would be nice to have an investment for the pure excitement but it’s difficult to know where to invest? Does anyone know which companies are open for investments at the moment? I have reached out to a few, Leonardo, [lexicon]Industrial Heat[/lexicon], Hydro Fusion, Brillouin with limited or no response.


    Any thoughts?


    Thanks.

    • Official Post

    Today it is like investing on Internet startup in 1993...
    This is time of private equities and tycoons.


    Some will say that LENR is uncertain, that their device may not work.
    It is not the greatest uncertainty.
    The first years of LENR revolution will be very bloody. many startup will be washed, many investments will be lost, and someone as improbable as Google or IBM may catch the wind...


    Best would be to invest either in "good future" (long alpha on the market), or in "uncertain future" (long beta).
    Anyway many says that the structure of the market, full of big corps, will change (uberization).
    If you can lose all your money invested, meet people, make due diligence, or invest in someone who did it. (eg: woodford funds)

    AlainCo: In a situation where there are a lot of uncertainty around the technology and around the players, I think one should buy LENR broadly to be more likely to pick at least one winner. People who bought IT broadly around 2000 made a killing if they managed to get out early. Also, LENR will not be saturated as a market in any near future - i.e. room for a lot of players in the beginning - I don't think the early years will be bloody because funding will be thrown at everything LENR related - the tough years will start once the technology and the market of that technology is much more established, further down the line.


    Mats002: A proxy investment in [lexicon]Industrial Heat[/lexicon] via Woodford - in that case I think Leonardo Corp proxies such as Hydro Fusion and other licensees could also be strong proxy investment at, probably, a cheaper valuation than Woodford.

    • Official Post

    Yes wide investment is a good idea... like betting on half of the horses in a race. This is lottery, but the winner will earn much more than the bets unlike in usual "sharing" lotteries. Here something is created by technology and entrepreneurship.


    Among the current startups, LENR-Cities have done a capital opening recently. I don't know if it is still open. Member of their LENRG ecosystem may be ready to open their capital, independently. LENRG component named "LENR-Venture" should be studied.


    LENR-Invest is creating an investment fund, and may be ready now.


    The problem is that the need for money is so huge that a modest investment, divided in a dozen of horses, will be useless for the startups. It should be gathered by a dedicated fund.

    AlainCo: Thank you I will look into suggested companies. Very interesting. Hope my budget is attractive enough.


    Got a response, by the way, from the company Hydro Fusion but I am not sure what to think about their NDA and “Investor Certification”? Is that a common practice?


    “Thank you for contacting Investor Relations at hydrofusion.com asking about current investment opportunities.


    Hydro Fusion is a UK Limited company and in order to receive information regarding ongoing share subscription offers, you must comply with UK legislation, which means you must be an eligible investor in compliance with the attached investor certification document. Should you comply, we ask you to sign the applicable investor certification (only one investor type is needed to be signed to comply) together with the attached NDA and send it to [email protected].


    Once the NDA and Investor Certification has been approved you will receive information about any ongoing share subscription.


    Note: Hydro Fusion cannot send offers to US citizens and reserves the rights to decline any investment not in concordance with Leonardo Corporation policies.


    Kind regards,


    Investor Relations - Hydro Fusion Ltd”

    The answer is relatively straightforward. You would short current energy stock like crazy. While the implementation and launching of any technology will take time the futures on energy will respond immediately......WRT to options timing becomes a critical element. However, followers of LENR should be able to recognize the impending success or failure of this highly disruptive technology as soon as someone actually markets and sells a working unit.

    • Official Post

    Shorting energy companies is not absurd but not bullet proof.


    good energy companye may, like Fujifilm, pivot intelligently to benefit from the revolution.
    Turbine designers, smartgrid specialists, good engineering companies, may be able to dump 90% of their asset and use the 10% to grow bigger than before.


    Take people like GE or Alstom... they have technology, knowhow, patents, but most of oall they have good engineers, and procedures to produc high quality products ?


    take Shell... they do oil research, oil petrochemistry, but they could move to synfuel (as they do on biofuel), to raw material prospections (linked to economic growth created by LENR).


    the best model is Kodak versus Fujifilm.
    Kodak had the best technology but enjoyed a good comfortable market and near died when the digital photography they invented nearly washed their markets.
    Fujifilm was able to pivot intelligently, toward digital camera, but also toward chemistry and thin films technologies.
    Being intelligent is not always embracing the revolution, dumping your past, but sometime exploiting your past to enter an old market where you are very competitive.
    If you are disrupted, why not "teslaize" someone else business?
    Imagine Areva entering the bunker business, the IT security busness, the food or drug market ? maybe they are better at making bunkerized technology, than at LENR ?
    Imagine Shell entering the food industry? Or the tourism industry ? Or the blackops business?


    this is very uncertain future. smart people may enjoy that moment.

    You should invest in Rossi. He was a professional "marathonete" don't ya know?


    Possibly a company (not well covered in LENR sites) "First Light Fusion" is
    worth looking at. They have USPTO patent applications for a type of sonofusion.
    Refer to the thread - "New Sonofusion Patent Application"
    New Sonofusion Patent Application


    First Light Fusion is a spinout of Oxford's intellectual property company,
    and has met their first round funding goal of about $35 million. See -


    "IP Group news 2015"
    http://www.ipgroupplc.com/medi…news/2015/2015-08-14.aspx


    Their Advisory Board includes Steven Chu (former US Energy Secretary.)


    The IP Group plc (LSE: IPO) portfolio includes First Light Fusion Ltd
    - not a "pure play" on sonofusion, however - and volatile, and risky.
    See London Stock Exchange chart --
    http://www.londonstockexchange…450GBGBXSTMM.html?lang=en

    Chances are if you don't have millions you won't be able to make a meaningful direct investment in LENR.


    Take Woodford for example; the % of their funds that is invested into [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] is only a few percents.


    Assume it 2%; if you invest $100k and the value of [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] is multiplied by 100 you would have made $200k.


    Not really the life changing billionaire making investment that one would expect from investing in such a groundbreaking tech.

    Agreed LENR Calender - your observation is key - and that is why when it comes to disruptive technologies one should go to the source - i.e. invest directly the companies dealing with LENR - typically getting 100x or 1000x the investment if successful. If u split $100k in to $10k or $20k chunks and invest in different companies and get 100x on any of those it will mean a $1-2 million dollar pay day on success. I.e. in order to have the upside it should be a pure LENR play not diluted by some mutual fund portfolio like Woodford's. The E-Cat technology seems to be the most advanced at present date (hence Woodford's investment) so Leonardo Corp, [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] or Hydro Fusion seems to be the best bet given current state of play (and yes I have invested in one of those :)).

    Nivin, there is no Energetics Technology in Israel anymore. In 2010 they moved to Missouri and what is left of them can be found at the University of Missouri under the name SKINR, the Sidney Kimmel Institute for Nuclear Renaissance.


    Here is a fairly recent report from SKINR: http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/108/04/0562.pdf


    They seem to be on the right track:
    "Facts that do not support nuclear model
    - No high-energy neutron or gamma ray emission.
    - No activation of materials in electrochemical cell."


    Here is another presentation of SKINR:
    https://mospace.umsystem.edu/x…esentation.pdf?sequence=1


    The slide "Involvement of UM Professors in SKINR-related Activities" is rather telling. It is a list of seven professors that are involved in the research. I am sure that they represent a lot of knowledge, but mostly of engineering type. What I am missing is at least one nuclear physicist.


    My prediction is that their only success will be to spend the $5.5 million donated by Sidney Kimmel. And if you want to invest in LENR you might just as well give your money to SKINR, it will make no difference, your return will be nil. At least they are honest people. I want to believe.

    I don't think that Rossi has ever gone beyond the testing and demo phases.

    I would not like to open yet another discussion on the reliability of Andrea Rossi, please.

    Just trying to figure out if there are any invest funds that care about innovations in this area.

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