The psychology of Andrea Rossi - Why DIYers deserve our attention, while Rossi does not.

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    I think we are all making a mistake when communicating with Rossi.

    He wants himself to be seen as a saviour. He wants attention, wants to be admired. He wants to present himself as a very important person.
    Our media todays allow him to do so. He has a professional website, like a person such as Elon Musk would have.
    He enjoys the state of looking like a "smart hero" who is developing the energy solution for all mankind in this time of despair.
    If we really want to see if there is something behind Rossi's claims, we have to stop giving him the attention he is longing for.

    For this purpose, his devices are always in development and new ground-breaking ideas are constantly proclaimed. For him, it pays out more, in terms of "attention points".

    He talks about next generation devices, while there aren't even the first generation devices out there. Fully aware, that
    10 years more or less can make the difference in the fight against the critical 2° warming of our climate.

    Hence I would advice to stop showing news about the E-Cat. Do not visit the JONP website, nor the E-Cat website anymore.

    We have a lot of openly and scientifically (as to the extent of their budget) working groups and people around here, who deserve this attention.
    Rossi should be ignored.

  • From my POV it is a (mild) waste of talent that all these people work on "replicating" a Rossi device that we have no reason to expect works. Why not other more plausible (according to many here) systems?

    The beauty of Rossi's "hot cat" is that it is simple enough for amateurs to build, difficult enough to measure that you need care to avoid artifacts, and a glowing tube that might emit kW of free power is much more emotionally satisfying than an electrolytic cell.

  • Dear Majorana,

    One of my readers came with the idea that the 1MW test will be a failure however Rossi being the world's best scammer -will be celebrated as a hero.
    Your idea Rossi is narcissistic therefore we better should ignore him completely-is also very interesting. Actually not Rossi is important but his generators- after 5 years from the first demo at Bologan U. we still do not have the absolute certainty thta it works LENR+ style (that is COP over 3 and power density over 1000W per gram reaction mixture.)

    I am spending many hours daily searching for LENR info and I can tell you that without Rossi it would be indistinguishable from hopeless- at least for somebody focused on technology.
    IF Rossi has indeed solved the LENR+ problem than his narcissim would be not a serious flaw.

    If he and his team works really seriously, then the technology is naturally in continuous
    development that is a general rule I know from experience.


  • Peter, you say "If he and his team works really seriously".

    Judging from a recent statement by Rossi the extent of the teamwork can be questioned:

    "This plant belongs to the first generation, substantially it is equal to the plant tested in Bologna in the Winter of 2011; the next one will be different and I am already designing it (again: F9)."

  • Dear H.G. Branzell

    I m convinced thta there were essential changes from 1MW plant 2011 to the present one; Rossi's problem seemed to be with controll long start-up and shutdown- remeber the Cat Mouse issue- no details known. He needed some stimulation method beyond thermal shocks,
    If you read my blog you could see that I consider re-design normal and I do not expect positive-positive results i.e. system ready for mass commercializtion THEN; massive excesss heat is the awaited positive. High COP values- decently uniform from day to day is satisfactory.
    What do you want tell more exactly about team work at Rossi?

  • DIY open science is the fastest way to demonstrate the existence of LENR/Chemical induced nuclear reactions and by that spread the knowledge which is critical for this tech to develop without dependencies to single people like Mills, Rossi, Kesche and other self proclaimers with weak-to-none transparency.

    DIY open science LENR has so far clearly demonstrated a number of weakness' of thermocouple measurements, pyrometers and thermal imaging methods. This is GOOD science, even if in the end no effect can be found.

    If the effect can be demonstrated beyond doubt, well - we are all aware of the importance of that.

  • The problem with LENR as a field is that many of it's best known proponents, like Rothwell and McKubre, and even Peter Gluck, give credence to obvious scammers like Defkalion and Rossi. Instead of that, they should absolutely demand that people like those should do proper tests of their claims including truly independent experiments done by truly credible sources. Instead the work is done by some obscure and negligent professors. McKubre even attends to claims from that lunatic Papp!

    As for duplicating Rossi, I suppose it makes a bit more sense now that he supposedly revealed the composition of his secret sauce. But did he really? First, the story was that nickel was the fuel and it underwent a nuclear reaction to form copper. Improbable without any radiation or copper isotopes other than the natural distribution. But wait! Rossi claimed that his reaction made gamma radiation but that his reactors thermalized it with a small amount of lead. Lots of luck with that! Not only has nobody ever shown this radiation in a Rossi device, but a simple google search reveals that LOTS of lead is required to thermalize gamma radiation and it would not fit in Rossi's tiny ecats.

    Now, the current Rossi story (I call it Rossifiction) is that nickel is a catalyst for an unspecified nuclear reaction starting with lithium aluminum hydride and ending in the 62 isotope of nickel exclusively and entirely. How exactly does that make the slightest sense? (Well maybe it does in some Axil fantasy!) But not in the real world.

    So how would one even try to go about replication? Which of Rossi's changing scenarios would one emulate? Why would any of them even be credible?

    Maybe some are trying to replicate P&F. If so, you'd better know that millions of dollars and twenty years of work by well qualified people have been unable to provide a reproducible and provable replication. So again: good luck with that too!

    The problem is that with people like Rossi, observers and believers alike tend to forget all the idiotic claims (obvious lies) which came along the way. They continue to believe these prevaricators. The lies are justified with silly reasons like fooling the competition. Really? What competition? The world doesn't much know or care about claims like Rossi's. But if Rossi lied all along the way, why isn't he lying about everything? Why is there anything of his worth the work and trouble to replicate?

    And Peter, Rossi's "problem" isn't control. It's his uncanny ability to sabotage each and every experiment, demo and test so that it is wide open to huge doubts. He can't seem to do a single proper calibration in 5 years (9 if you believe the fairy tale he wrote in his first patent application about heating a factory in Italy with an ecat in 2007). Or is that just misdirection to put off competition too?

  • I have just posted a thread on the psychology of Andrea Rossi and others.

    Occam's Razor suggests that the simplest solution is most often right. That may be applied to both Rossi and Randall Mills.

    They are both charismatic and very persuasive. They select their followers after in dpth meetings where the unwitting are hypnotized.. Those that cannot be hypnotized are de=selected from demonstrations and testing. for example' Levi's rediculous performance at Lugano is best explained by this form of undue influence.

    Mills generally subjects potential investors to lengthy presentations. Donald Trump freely admits that he uses these techniques to make sales. Forbes magazine has an article how he is using these subliminal tactics to garner support for his election.

    I submit that this psychological expanation is a simple account of how the Lugano professors performed in such an inept manner in 2014.

    I am sure they have been embarassed and wonder how they had authored such a magnificently awful Luganp reprt.

  • There is a common feature of both Brullouin, Piantelli and Rossi. They all use Nickel/hydrogen system and a stimulus system.

    So either they all got it or none of them has it.

    Triggering and stimulus is a vital ingredient. I think there's the failure of many or all replication attempts.

    To sum up what I've stated earlier on triggering;

    1. Brilliouin is using electrical stimulation on their reactor.

    Ref. Mckubre stated on Brillouin: "The fact that the Q pulse input is capable of triggering the excess power on and off is also highly significant.”

    2. Swartz have discovered something interesting:
    "Astonishingly, it has now been discovered that high intensity, dynamic, repeatedly fraction- ated, magnetic fields have an incremental major, significant and unique, complex, metachronous amplification effect on the preloaded NANOR⃝R -type LANR device"

    "H-field pulse sequence was delivered (dH/dt ∼1.5 T with 0.1 ms rise time × 1000–5000 pulse"


    3. Rossi is using some kind of electromagnetic stimulation....

    I have tried to Ask him several times on stinulation, but he allways says "no comment" or "confidential"

    A reason why Rossi will not comment on stimulation of the core may be because Piantelli allready have patented such mechanisms, as I referred to Below.

    So Rossi is using stimulation, but don't want to talk about it, since he may "get Piantelli on his back"?

    The only thing I find in the Rossi patent claims are "reinvigorating" reaction by "varying" a voltage source.

    Which could mean varying AC voltage with some high frequency (at what Herz?), and thereby creating some extra stimulating magnetic fields....for "reinvigorating" the core.....

    But he can not state it in his patent, since it is allready protected by Piantelli.

    4. More on stimulation, this time from Piantelli patents:

    "........impulsive trigger action consists of supplying an energy pulse"

    ".....trigger means (61 ,62,67) for creating an impulsive action (140) on said active core (18), said impulsively action (140) suitable for causing......"

    " impulsive application of a package of electromagnetic fields, in particular said fields selected from the group comprised of: a radiofrequency pulse whose frequency is larger than 1 kHz; X rays; v rays; an electrostriction impulse that is generated by an impulsive electric current that flows through an electrostrictive portion of said active core...."

    "- an electric voltage impulse that is applied between two points of a piezoelectric portion of said active core; an impulsive magnetostriction that is generated by a magnetic field pulse along said active core which has a magnetostrictive portion."

    "Such impulsive triggering action generates lattice vibrations, i.e. phonons..."

    5. Bockris: "It is interesting that the excess heat, caused by RF stimulation, reaches a maximum value and, after a certain time, falls to zero. A possible explanation is that the RF stimulates only the deuterium nucleus at the near surface of Pd. It is well known that, due to the 'skin effect,' high frequency alternating currents are felt only up to a certain depth (called 'skin depth') "

    Ref. Bockris

    6. Mckubre et. al paper:

  • Any honest LENR enthusiast /researcher should make clear they have no symphaties for Andrea Rossi.

    Of course, I don't believe myself that LENR as a phenomenon exists at all.

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    To be sincere, I don't follow Rossi says so much. It may be interesting as "hypothesis" , but most he says is not proven, and sometimes either wrong or simply misunderstood...
    However I follow what is around, and this is amazing, far from a scam artist theory.

    Saying Rossi is a human being, with ego, is basic psychology. You cannot say Scientific Community get caught in groupthink by a handful of big ego and a crowd of conservative followers, without accepting there is hysterical priests of new reality, strong ego, ambitious entrepreneurs, would-be "heroes of the world", stubborn realists...

    The world is symmetrical, and the human factors which ruined Cold Fusion beginnings have also supported it's development in the underground and now in Fortune and FT.

  • The small energy yield and intermittency of the PdD system is obviously a big hurdle for development. The transistor had the same kind of problem in it's infancy. It is likely there where many unbelievers of it at the time.
    The most functioning seams to be presented by Hagelstein/Swartz but where did the 101 lecture go? Why stop putting it on display???

    The NiH system seams to have the solution to both the drawbacks of PdD; energy yield and repeatability. DIY open science should keep working on the Piantelli-Rossi-Brillouin line to get closer to truth.

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    As I remember reading article (lost them) the period of disbelief and drawer storage was in the 1920-30s about PN parasitic junctions (in Germanium).
    *Hard to find data on that period as officially nothing happened.

    there was one patent for a FET transistor in the 30s, and it have been replicated painfully recently while most believed it was not working. il lost the details...

  • @brian ahern

    While I appreciate your description of Rossi and Mills and why people believe him, I have a slightly different one. Rossi's great skill, in my opinion, is in choosing his "marks" (believers, victims, dupes, gullibles, whatever). The professors were maybe hypnotized but if so, they were chosen by Rossi because his skills allowed him to detect that they were good subjects for this sort of hypnosis. It constantly amazes me that Rossi persuaded Kullander, Essen, Levi, and the Swedish professors, not to mention countless LENR enthusiasts, that it was perfectly OK to conduct each and every experiment and demo without a proper calibration. And with a different method for each rather than repairing the defective prior method! And when Rossi allowed (very rarely) proper methods (Hydrofusion's failed test), everyone explained away the failure. The ecat also conveniently failed to work at all, early on in 2011, when Rossi was visited by Quantum (Australia) and NASA. That despite Rossi saying at the time he was testing DOZENS of reactors in his "factory." Everyone has forgotten that debacle as well. Nobody asked Rossi why he didn't simply substitute and demo another reactor if the first one failed. There are indeed good hypnosis subjects among Rossi's believers and LENR believers in general. Hey, McKubre still attends to the idiotic stories about Papp!

    Alain wrote:


    The world is symmetrical, and the human factors which ruined Cold Fusion beginnings have also supported it's development in the underground and now in Fortune and FT.

    Can someone please parse and explain that sentence to me? I tried for a while and I can get absolutely no sense or meaning from it!

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    Rossi knows we want info, and makes us grovel to get it. It's either play his game on JONP, or get shut out from the only window open into the Ecat world. So we swallow our pride, kiss his you know what, and get rewarded with a bone. Woof woof. :)

    I don't ask questions there. Not a bad idea if everyone boycotted, but I doubt that will be very successful. This forum doesn't run on, or need Rossisays, but another one does.

  • No bones, Shane. Just a perpetual stream of non-information, mis-information obvious and flagrant lies, and self-serving BS.