Slice of MIT: Carl page "coming out" comment on LENR

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    on Slice of MIT Alumni blog, Jill Hetch Maxell compare the difficulty to tell you support nuclear energy, citing Sam Briton
    “The challenge of coming out as LGBT sure gives you a lot of practice for coming out for nuclear energy.”.


    Carl Page, known for his participation to ICCF19 and a recent article on EDGE.ORG, comment this article adding that coming out on LENr is even more controversial, giving among other insightful sentences, this quote:
    "However Science is not a consensus sport. It is a dictatorship. All humans can be wrong. Only nature’s vote counts. And nature speaks regularly."


    [news=100,meta][/news]

    Has Carl Page invested, Mats002? And if so, how much and with whom? Just curious. He's pretty woowooish so it wouldn't mean much either way.

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    Has Carl Page invested, Mats002? And if so, how much and with whom? Just curious. He's pretty woowooish so it wouldn't mean much either way.


    Consistent with your nefarious methods, have you tried to contact Page and work your feminine wiles on him to move his head and heart away from belief in LENR? If not, why not? Curious minds what to know.

    Axil, if Page asks me, I will tell him. Dick Smith *asked me* about Defkalion. He personally initiated the [lexicon]conversation[/lexicon]. After a few emails, we spoke on the phone two or three times. He did not invest. I was not his only advisor of course. Some NASA associated dude was misleading him in favor of investing, so in the end, I asked him to demand at least one, properly controlled and calibrated experiment to show the Hyperion worked, done by some person or organization of Smith's choosing, not affiliated with Defkalion like maybe EarthTech. Of course Defkalion refused and now they are history, belly up, cadaverous and embalmed. Elforsk's CEO was easily reachable and had already given money so I contacted him and got a courteous reply. Far as I know, Page has not ventured money, is not publicizing plans to do so and has not contacted me so I will withhold my nefarious methods until one or more of those considerations changes.

    • Official Post

    Mary, Brillouin was tested by SRI, McKubre and tanzella.
    It is clear that McKubre is competent, because when Garwin and Lewis tried to put their nose in their lab, a rare even when skeptic go to the lab far from TV and armchairs, they found nothing to criticize except "it is not possible" wildcard answer.


    So you accuse McKubre, Tanzella, Godes, of fraud in front of US congress ?
    Sure girls have balls. :thumbup:

    Should we care about what Carl V. Page Jr. has to say about LENR?


    https://edge.org/memberbio/carl_v_page

    Quote

    Mr. Page's experience ranges from hardware to Internet companies, and from startups to large multinationals.


    At the root of LENR's to be or not to be is physics. With Page's background i think it is very probable that he has great difficulties to decide if a LENR statement is a truth, a mistake, wishful thinking, or a downright lie.


    Therefore an article like this https://edge.org/response-detail/26753
    is just a hodgepodge of selected LENR "likes" introduced in the standard way: "In 1989 Pons and Fleischmann ..."


    LENR "dislikes" are mercifully hidden with a couple of question marks as proxy.


    So I think it is time to leave this Page, bye bye for now.


    Talking about time, I will go and check if Orbo has transmuted any more time to energy. They have had all night to work on. :)

    Alain,


    Nobody knows what tests McKubre supposedly performed on Brillouin. None have been replicated. Brillouin's previous releases were gobbledygook (meaningless claims and silly diagrams filled with typographical errors). Godes doesn't seem very bright when interviewed or discussed. It is certainly far from clear that McKubre is competent. I suspect he's a woowoo. McKubre attends to virtually any LENR claims including Rossi's. Also the ridiculous garbage about Papp noble gas engines from the very obviously lying Rohner brothers. His approval means absolutely nothing. Nobody knows if Brillouin has anything. I rather doubt it but there is no little coherent information about them, who knows?


    Quote

    “This is a power source that mankind needs to have. We need to make a push and get this energy out in the hands of people.“—Dr. Michael McKubre TeslaTech 2012


    http://coldfusionnow.org/tag/papp-engine/


    I assume but don't know if this quote is accurate.


    I don't know if it's "fraud in front of the US Congress." If so, they wouldn't be the first. In this instance, I suppose it could be Thomas Clarke's favorite excuse for scammers, self delusion and simple errors. No way to know until they disclose more which they have had ample time to do. A little straight-forward calorimetry and a long run would be nice. I am always suspicious when supposedly highly energetic devices (Brillouin claims to have a prototype industrial "boiler") require power from the mains. Especially when the power sources is supposedly "nuclear."

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    Give me evidence that McKubre is not more competent than were Lewis and Hansen in electrochemistry ?


    to be serious, McKubre with his isothermal flow calorimetry showed he was very competent, and surviving to Lewis and Garwin lab investigation is good symptom.


    McKubre like most LENR scientist is far from endorsing E-cat test as they consider it is not done scientifically, but under business context.


    You are right that Brillouin test are not fully published (there was presentation at ICCF17 and poster at ICCF19), but McKubre is clearly supportive to the reality of the technology and to Godes claims of COP=4 with control.


    As usual you cast innuendo of fraud , not daring to say it clearly .


    You say Brillouin and McKubre are in a scam process ? You can ! just prove it!


    Tell it clearly, and don't hide your conspiracy theory under FUD.

    Many fundamental discoveries made by dropout, or young professionals. They probably his half-taught did not know that you can not do, and nothing happens. Sometimes they accidentally turned.


    A venerable academics - for example, believes that "the stones from the sky can not fall." Still - think about the number of legs flies and Aristotle. It's credibility - afraid to go against him. And prove him wrong flying nearby. Yes, and fear for their reputation. Reluctance clown look, even if they do not agree with the "official" theory.

    Dear s_grey,
    I have a theory (or guess). I think that you write your comments in Russian and then you Google translate them. In any case, it is sometimes very difficult to understand what you mean.
    Kind regards, H-G


    Like this, perhaps:
    Уважаемый s_grey,
    У меня есть теория (или угадать). Я думаю, что вы пишете комментарии на русском, а затем вы Google перевести их. В любом случае, это иногда очень трудно понять, что вы имеете в виду.
    С уважением, Н-G ;)

    • Official Post

    DARPA paid SRI/McKubre to test various LENR claims:


    http://energycatalyzer3.com/ne…dmits-working-for-darpa-2


    "Dr. Michael McKubre of SRI or the Stanford Research Institute; said he has tested between 12 and 15 low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) technologies for the United States government. If that wasn’t enough, McKubre said his team was able to replicate at least five of those technologies."


    Mary is doing what he always does...throwing out insults with little, if any discretion.


    McKubre has impeccable credentials. His SRI lab is the "go-to" for LENR verification as the article shows. They wrote the book on LENR calorimetry. If SRI says it is LENR...then it is LENR.


    McKubre's associating himself with Brillouin means BE is legitimate, and the effect they see is real.

    Shane, on the surface Mike McKubre may appear to be a sensible man. But you know how it is with reputation traps, it takes only one of them to catch you, and the only way to get out of it is to repent your sins.


    The Papp engine is such a trap and it is easy to find several different statements by McKubre on the internet where he clearly believes it to be a working concept. Here is on example: http://coldfusionnow.org/tag/papp-engine/


    And as of now I have seen no sign of repentance from McKubre for supporting these ideas that not even deserve to be counted as pseudo science.


    No ifs needed here.

    • Official Post

    H-G,


    Thanks, I was aware of McKubres comments on Papps machine, thanks to MY and JC hammering on it for years now. In fact, had you not mentioned this, MY would have surely done so. It is one of his standard rants. ;)


    After taking into account McKubres many other accomplishments, I choose to ignore this bit of old history. We all make mistakes, if indeed he feels today it was a mistake? Had he taken the easy career road, kept to noncontroversial research, he would be well respected in electrochemistry circles. He knew the risk of taking this path, and I give him, as I do the other LENR pioneers, a lot of credit for doing what they did, and do. Probably most have something they wish they could take back.


    Until there is an LENR+ commercial product, or an LENR cell/reactor that reliably produces the effect, and also transportable to other labs with the same results, every LENR pioneers obituary will have an * mark, noting their involvement in the controversial field. It is the mark they bear for their beliefs.


    Don't lose heart. The Papp engine was and still is real and honest as anything can be. It is the only LENR system to be patented. It passed an impartial third party test conducted by the patent office as a prerequisite to the issuance of the patent. All of Papp's technology has be patented. Furthermore, the patent office awarded to Papp, patent of the year honors for the patent of his engine. Papp also showed that Richard Feynman was a jackass, a liar, and a know nothing, in count and got his employer to pay a huge settlement for killing and injuring observers at a demo the Feynman destroyed. Feynman sets the tone for all Papp's present day detractors, jackasses, liars, and know nothings.

    Feynman on Papp:


    Quote

    The case was settled out of court, and Mr. Papp was paid something. I guess there's a certain amount of wisdom in not going to court, even when you're right...


    Feynman was forced by CalTech to settle to avoid legal costs. That's all. And the settlement was probably confidential and didn't cost much. If you have contrary documentation, Axil, show it instead of spouting the usual believer BS.


    http://hoaxes.org/comments/papparticle2.html


    Papp was a paranoid schizophrenic and a chronic liar and con man. I actually met someone once who was one of the physicians who treated him for a self-inflicted gunshot wound which he claimed he sustained from a hit man chasing him in the desert. Clue: if a hit man had been after him in the desert, he wouldn't have made it to medical care for a harmless soft tissue wound in his arm. This physician's professional opinion was that (in other words) Papp was a nut case.

    @Shane


    Name a single, just ONE, convincing "accomplishment" from McKubre in the field of *HIGH POWER* LENR. Brillouin is irrelevant because it is flamingly unproven.


    @Alain


    Quote

    You say Brillouin and McKubre are in a scam process ?


    As usual, you are attributing to me remarks I never made. I have no idea if McKubre's infatuation with Brillouin is error or fraud. I sort of think he's honest but very gullible but I have no way to be sure. I also get the same flavor from Brillouin that I got from Steorn, Rossi, and (must not forget) Defkalion. Unfortunately, they release no complete experiment and certainly none independent so I can't know for sure. But if I could get someone to bet some large money, I'd bet against Brillouin having high power LENR.

    Axil posted

    Quote

    All of Papp's technology has be patented.


    A patent alone proves nothing, but the eventual materialization of it does.


    August 1, 1972 Papp was awarded a US patent for:
    METHOD AND MEANS FOR GENERATING EXPLOSIVE FORCES


    At this time a patent was valid for 17 years from issuance. This means that the patent expired in 1989, a year the importance of which we all know only too well from every story that was ever written about cold fusion.


    For soon three decades this patent as been free to exploit for anybody. Why don't you do that axil, and as soon as possible. When Rossi is finished with the Flat-Cats he may found Leonardo Noble Gas Engine Corporation and beat you to it.


    Of course he will also start a new blog, the name of it will be "Journal of Unclear Pysics". :)

    Quote from Mary Yugo


    Papp was a paranoid schizophrenic and a chronic liar and con man. I actually met someone once who was one of the physicians who treated him for a self-inflicted gunshot wound which he claimed he sustained from a hit man chasing him in the desert. Clue: if a hit man had been after him in the desert, he wouldn't have made it to medical care for a harmless soft tissue wound in his arm. This physician's professional opinion was that (in other words) Papp was a nut case.


    Papp was all that you say but his engine worked as verified by the US patent office. Autism is common among adults. Over the years, I have observed similarity in the behaviors demonstrated by both Papp and yourself. While such individuals struggle with their affections, we must only hope that such behavior does little damage to society.


    As Rossi states:


    Andrea RossiJanuary 22nd, 2016 at 3:45 PMRiccardo Ciazza:
    I understand that you bet with your friends that I was going to obtain a peer reviewed publication in a prestigious and well known site.You won, you should get the value of the bet: my apparatus has been published in the most important and sought after peer reviewed publication of the world: the USA Patent Office. No publication is more rigorously peer reviewed and more important than the USPTO publication, also for its enormous implications related to the industrial world.Go cash your bet!
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

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