Who presseured them to release the paper before it was properly reviewed?
Why?
U. Utah pressured them. Read the books by Mallove, Beaudette, or this chapter by Peterson:
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Residual foam at the end would not impact the excess heat calculation, it is just a marginal amount of water left
Yes, of course. The residual foam weighs only a few milligrams.
Anyway, thanks for this observation, because it allows me to better clarify my criticisms to the F&P paper presented at ICCF3 (1).
As stated in the abstract, the object of that paper was to demonstrate the capability of the F&P effect to generate excess heat at a specific rates greater than 1 kW/cm3. In fact, page 16 shows the calculation that led to an Excess Specific Rate of 3700 W/cm3.
Well, page 16 shows by itself that that calculation is sloppy and wrong, because it doesn't take into account the energy fed into the cell in the entire boil-off period and because the experimental input data are not adequately documented or are misrepresented. This is sufficient to conclude, even ignoring the foam issue, that the ICCF3 paper doesn't demonstrate any generation of excess heat, contrary to what was claimed by their authors.
The foam, instead, explain how it was possible to induce many people to believe that half of the water content of the cells has vaporized in a short time (10-11 minutes in the ICCF3 paper), thanks to the availability of the videos that clearly show the formation and the settling down of the foam. The residual foam remaining at the end of each boiling phase is a further confirmation of the presence of the foam and of its role in providing the false impression that the water was rapidly vaporizing, as suggested by the lowering arrows superimposed on the demonstration video (2).
This persistent foam caused the experimenters a problem, because the cells don't appear completely empty at the end of the boil-off phase, so that the lowest arrows are all placed well above the bottom of the cells. In the video sequence of the Cell 3 boil-off, the only one where the foam vanished almost completely, they placed a second lower arrow at the real bottom of the cell, but using a video clip filmed 4 days later, as demonstrated in the previous jpeg (3). This kind of manipulations can't be done inadvertently.
In conclusion, the residual foam has nothing to do with the energy balance, it is just one indication, the most striking, that the 1992 experiment was a deliberate foam and mirrors show.
(1) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf
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This persistent foam caused the
foam and mirrors show.
Now your foam foetus has mirrors... when are the arms and legs due?
I fear it may miscarry.... its mother is a grainy video of a test tube ... not even a real test tube
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Many such alkali residues would vanish since they are very hygroscopic and absorb water from the air and redissolve spontanteously. Never tried it wil LiOD but I have no doubt it would do the same, especially as D2O is also hygroscopic.
Extremely unlikely that this is the case shown in the F&P videos. However, it's a good suggestion. To avoid misunderstandings, let's ask RB to use LiOD solutions at different levels of concentration.
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Extremely unlikely that this is the case shown in the F&P videos.
Is this another assertion
or is there evidence to back it up?
Did F and P use unhygroscopic LiOD?
It is a white hygroscopic crystalline material. It is soluble in water and slightly soluble in ethanol, and is available commercially in anhydrous form and as the monohydrate (LiOHH2O), both of which are strong bases. It is the weakest base among the alkali metal hydroxides.
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To avoid misunderstandings, let's ask RB to use LiOD solutions at different levels of concentration.
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Ascoli this is your foam baby... not mine... do your own midwivery.. prove LiOH produces foam and is not hygroscopic
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I don’t want to have to build the lithium salt test tube boiling rig...
There must be hundreds of similar arrangements out there somewhere.
Boil off a perfect blank, film the foam, etc.
There will be endless discussion on how good the replica is, so I recommend making a simple test tube boiler with a thin electrically insulated heater element to start, if starting from scratch.
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Paradigmoilia,
The theory F&P tested in this Boiling experiement was If the excess heat they measured at lower temepratures increased at higher temperatures.
This theory could also be tested using closed cells as Mckubre used with recombination catalyst and add on a condenser for the steam.
In such setup there would be no discussion on foam or carry over of droplets in steam.
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Paradigmoilia,
The theory F&P tested in this Boiling experiement was If the excess heat they measured at lower temepratures increased at higher temperatures.
This theory could also be tested using closed cells as Mckubre used with recombination catalyst and add on a condenser for the steam.
In such setup there would be no discussion on foam or carry over of droplets in steam.
True, however the foam seems to be the crux of this discussion, so I thought that a foam test might help answer some questions. If this discussion is still going on a year from now, without a foam/boiling in a test tube experiment, then perhaps I will tool up for the challenge. I don’t have the equipment to do a proper job of it at the moment.
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And After that, yes CF where ignored.
Exactly. Including the F&P seminal paper..
QuoteTherefore few physisists read their 1990 paper, but where critisized by Wilson and Morrison.
BotH where answerred by Fleischmann, and they never answerred back.
Evidently, they had no more time to waste.
QuoteAnd the mystery of LENR is still not solved.
When you will realize how a few cubic centimeters of foam have spurred hundreds of M$ of funding to study an inexistent phenomenon, you will be much closer to solving this mystery.
FWIK, the CF researcher which got one important factor of the solution was Stan Szpak (1). His dictum applies both sides.
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few cubic centimeters of foam
Show and tell in a real realisable reality test tube..
so the world can be saved...
the world is depending on you alone... Ascoli... and your foam
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Ascoli,
I believe the hardest pill to swallow for the physisists in 1989 was the fact that some non-physisists announced that there was possibly a new nuclear phenomen that the physics community had not yet noticed.
This was an unbearable insult, and the physists did some sloppy tests to kill them Quick and effectively.
As later proven one important factor as the loading ratio of D/Pd was way too low for most of the replication attempts (to mention one of the problems)
And again;
The 1992 paper described a hypothesis of higher power densities at higher temepratures. It is a continuation of the already excess heat phenomen discovered at lower temperatures.
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True, however the foam seems to be the crux of this discussion, so I thought that a foam test might help answer some questions. If this discussion is still going on a year from now, without a foam/boiling in a test tube experiment, then perhaps I will tool up for the challenge. I don’t have the equipment to do a proper job of it at the moment.
I have boiled lithium doped heavy water made for lab and NMR use from Cambridge Isotopes UK, it doesn't foam unless there is some greasy contamination there - that makes soap that makes foam. But in a clean system it just boils.
ETA- this had nothing to do with Ascoli's conspiracy fantasies btw, I just wanted to de-gas it.
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Note that Hansen published better graphs of the boil off data, including voltage.
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I believe the hardest pill to swallow for the physisists in 1989 was the fact that some non-physisists announced that there was possibly a new nuclear phenomen that the physics community had not yet noticed.
The problem is that physics has been vastly taken over by mathematicians, that miss the intuition of a classical physicist like Faraday, Herz, Heisenberg, Teller just to name a few...
There are thousand of fat ducks eating the ITER, CERN, Fermilab etc. money without ever producing something that really helps to overcome the problem of todays world.
But this is just a mirror image of the real society. People that work, invent, construct are cheated by the less skilled bankers, managers, politicians, lawyers.
Even more strange. Most countries are now run (and possibly soon ruined) by these fat ducks...
The same happened to Fleischmann& Pons, when finally a fat duck took over their old sponsor company...
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Ascoli this is your foam baby...
The foam we are talking about is a product de la brasserie IMRA, Côte d'Azur: FP's experiments discussion
Show and tell in a real realisable reality test tube..
Just watch the original videos produced by la brasserie, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OQu44UIC_s
You can see all the foam you want in a real test tube, with a real electrolyte, shown by the real brasseur to a real Japanese client.
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de la brasserie
The new title for your Nature submission.
I shall tell the Nz Herald News
I guess the world is saved. Praise Ascoli65... whoever it is.
I shall tell the NZ TV3.
It should be on the evening news tonight in 6 hours time.
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The 1992 paper described a hypothesis of higher power densities at higher temepratures. ...
No, no. It was not presented as hypothesis. Read carefully the abstract (1): "We present here one aspect of our recent research on the calorimetry of the Pd/D2O system which has been concerned with high rates of specific excess enthalpy generation (> 1kWcm-3) at temperatures close to (or at) the boiling point of the electrolyte solution."
And the conclusion: "We note that excess rate of energy production is about four times that of the enthalpy input even for this highly inefficient system; the specific excess rates are broadly speaking in line with those achieved in fast breeder reactors."
Quote… It is a continuation of the already excess heat phenomen discovered at lower temperatures.
Yes, in a certain sense, it was the evolution of the same phenomenon.
And this video (2) publicizes a further evolution 20 years later.(1) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf
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The Ascoli de la brasserie effect...breaking news
Out of philanthropy Ascoli will warn the enchanted researchers in the USA, and Italy.
Fleischmann has deluded you with foam.. group think group foam.. and don't forget the Japanese tricked out of millions of yen.""
Is it apocalypse or euangelion?
https://www.google.com/url?q=h…Vaw2Auz1tZnt8yNKpwllz33ET
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Ascoli,
I think it described excactly what I said.
The paper is reporting a result of a hypothesis of F&P, that the anomalous heat power density increase with temperature.
"......,present here one aspect of our recent research on the calorimetry of the Pd/D2O system which has been concerned with high rates of specific excess enthalpy generation (> 1kWcm-3) at temperatures close to (or at) the boiling point of the electrolyte solution."
It is therfore not describing the CF discovery as such (which was the subject of their 1990 paper) but a continuing research to test the range of the effect.
