I don't get it

  • So I glanced at the jazz coming out of MFMP and I am sorry I just don't get it. There is talk of gamma rays and x-rays and zig-zag what not (difficult to say looking at the graphs) that appear to be generated by the test device. How does that convert or translate into energy? Can anybody explain so that a layperson can understand what is going on?

  • Frank,

    The claimed gammas are at a level many many OOMs lower than would be needed to generate measureable heat. So that is a red herring. Obviously gammas carry energy like all e-m radiation and that is thermalised when the gammas are stopped (typically by lead shielding).

    The claim is for one trace from a gamma scintillation spectrometer that appears to show a sudden increase in gammas by a factor of 10. The level is still very low around possible background, but the jump is very notable and I believe they made no changes to the experimental setup.

    But, maybe somone opened a door, or walked somewhere, so disturbing floor dust, or maybe the switchon process causes somone to disturb floor dust. Dust being pushed into the air between the scintillator and the experiment is enough to account for such a one-off result.

    Anyway, if it is reproducible MFMP will no doubt be able to find cause.

  • But, maybe somone opened a door, or walked somewhere, so disturbing floor dust, or maybe the switchon process causes somone to disturb floor dust. Dust being pushed into the air between the scintillator and the experiment is enough to account for such a one-off result.

    I would like to know the nuclear basis for this statement. If the floor dust is that radioactive where Alan lives, I think it would be a dangerous place to call home. The amount of energy detected in the GS5.2 experiment would have been plenty to set off radiation alarms at most facilities that handle radioactive materials and monitor for radiation in the hallways. Such contaminating materials (radioisotopes) display a gamma line spectrum when detectable and are identifiable by this line - this was not seen. Radon and its daughters are very hard to detect via gamma because all of the decay chain emit alpha or beta.

    The high energy broadband spectrum measured in GS5.2 had plenty of signal-to-noise and no evidence of radioisotope lines, making it a unique signal. The fact that the signal showed in only a few of the 24 integrations, and never while the reactor was inactive, provides further correlation of the signal to the reactor activity. The lead cave around the NaI scintillator limited the field of view of the detector to a small solid angle that did not include much more than the active LENR test cell. All of these combine to make your explanation for the signal source to be essentially null.

    The much more likely explanation is that the gamma signal came from the active reactor. It included such high energy photons that the source of the photons would have required an accelerator capable of continuously adding energy to particles to build up high particle energy, OR, it required a nuclear source mass deficit to impart enough energy to create MeV+ class particles/photons via single action. Since there were no nearby particle accelerators and it is unlikely they were created ad hoc inside the reactor, it is highly likely that the energy resulted from a single object nuclear action. This means that the signal detected was the result of nuclear reaction.

    While not enough radiant flux was measured in GS5.2 to have created measurable excess heat, this radiation signal is a clear indication of the onset of some type of LENR. While excess heat is the desired outcome, measuring the nuclear sourced radiation in the experiment provides a sensitive metric with which to begin experimental optimization of the reaction. Excess heat is a terrible metric in the early phases of experimentation because it is very difficult to measure with enough accuracy to discern whether you have improved your experimental result or not.

  • Hm? And there I was thinking I was a fool for being the gadfly on the forum. Feeling bad I told myself not to lament. I am in a no lose situation. If LENR is Rossi's scam bull then I was onto it all along. If it is real then I don't have to worry about how to heat my huge enormous ranch house in the winter. So I decided to look at what MFMP is presenting. It looks like a Hong Kong market. I asked my kid, a chemistry student in university, to look at it. Maybe he can make heads or tails of it. At first glance he looked confused but he will try to digest it with the help of his professor. I have this funny suspicious feeling that Rossi may have paid them off in some way. If his bull is replicated then someone might come along and offer him millions to buy him out.

  • Even if I was willing I don't have millions. Rossi is talking about buying ABB robots. [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] probably does not have a single straight screwdriver in the shop. They are the ones trying to sell to some big company that comes along and wants to buy them out, not me.

    As for take it and do it, I am not a chemist. I don't think you need any special skills besides a basic knowledge of science to quickly realize that MFMP is not making a whole lot of sense. This also goes for Parkhomov. 1,000 forum entries out there about him "duplicating the effect" without one critical word about what it is exactly that he duplicated? You are told it is not heat it is something else. Well if it is not heat then what is it??? It's not electricity that will come later. Ok, I get that part. Is it gamma rays or xrays? Hardly proof in and of itself. I work with xrays and nobody has ever referred to an xray generator as a cold fusion device. So what exactly is it that they have discovered??? Sorry to be the kid who claims the emperor has no clothes.

  • Many many years ago, there lived a scholar - Aristotle. He said that flies 8 feet. For trying to count the legs of a fly students expelled from schools. Since then, little has changed.
    There are experimental data. There is a theory that not explains them. While not become extinct generation authorities deny these facts - and it will continue. The case is not alone. Read about I. Semmelweis. It will take 5 minutes, very informative. And about the meteorites that fall from the sky can not ...
    Scientists are people, they tend to err and hold on to what they have been taught.
    Experiment primary. The theory is secondary. It is much easier to find an explanation why this is not working than an experiment. People are lazy.
    Another draw your attention to the fact that the same Parkhomov Rossi, Lenz - heated to 1200-1300 degrees +. Replicators is heated to 800-1000-1100. And then wrote that they did not work.
    I worked for a reactor with excess heat for about 40 minutes. Of course, I do not have faith, I am not an authority and a lot of mistakes with measurements .. Here, new experiments do.

  • This is not about experimental or theory. This is about leaps of faith. I looked at the Bob Greenyer video and it cleared up my question about what is going on. It appears that they did not find any significant heat, other than just a teensy weensy bit above what they were inputing. However they did see a flash of xray or gamma ray radiation. Since Defkalion's machine and since Rossi's machine had something to do with lead lining then this must be it. This must be the impetus for the reaction. The reaction that they were not able to see by the way. But they figure it must be out there. Since they are hard up to prove something anything they whipped out this attenuation chart. If you must have excess energy I suppose you can prove it by looking up how much radiation the lead lining absorbed. Never mind that it is only a flash that supposedly ignites the fire (which cannot be seen or verified).

  • Quote

    I work with xrays and nobody has ever referred to an xray generator as a cold fusion device.

    No - but it is not so easy to generate x-rays without at least one of:
    high voltages
    sticky tape
    fracturing material
    radioactive isotopes
    high energy particles

    So if they really have x-rays, and can rule out other mechanisms, some sort of nuclear mechanism that geberates high energy particles becomes less implausible.

    However thus far they have one trace of 10X above (very low, shielded) background. A trace that looks remarkably smooth for anything like normal x-ray emission, but in any case such a trace is a prime candidate for a glitch of some sort.

    They need to replicate it, investigate causes, and then start making comments, when they come back to the table with real data.

  • Stop it. I work with xrays for imaging and the attenuated object being xrayed does not get hot or even slightly warm. High voltage required to produce xrays maybe but it is low amps so the wattage is not that high. 120V 15AMP standard US power plug will suffice to run an xray generator. If a nuclear mechanism is required to produce xrays then my dentist has a cold fusion device. The only evidence MFMP has comes down to "Defkalion and Rossi used a lead shield". So it comes down to they noticed xrays or gamma rays => Defkalion and Rossi use lead shields => Eureka ! note: => means leads to (plagiarized from the MFMP cookbook)