Industrial Heat Makes Statement Regarding LENR Industry Developments

At one time he said he did [share it] and that they replicated it based on his formula. But, if it is based on the patent he got in the U.S., there is only scattered and poor evidence that the formula outlined in the patent actually works. Objectively evaluated based on the array of replication attempts, it does not work as presented. I read the statements by [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] and Rossi, at least partly, as subtle shots at each other. [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] is saying, you are just one of many possibilities and we will decide whether we think your product works based on the scientific merit. Rossi says back, from now on only LC will perform tests and nobody else is allowed. [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] is just one of many licensees for the Ecat. I own the IP and understand how it works.

In the end, [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] is in a superior position because they have apparently other possibilities and they don't have to be tied to Rossi. This in addition to the fact that they hold the purse strings! Of course if Rossi does indeed have something that works, they all win. [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] can objectively evaluate Rossi's technology, because they can just move on to something else if it doesn't work.

All this is metadata, and not worth a lot, but...

I find the [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] statement interesting. It was not required, and clearly made because they want to clarify their position.

My guess is that is was prompted mostly by the MFMP "Signal" affair. Remember MFMP are also saying "Rossi has it" and are making a fair splash. What will [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] investors make of this?

[lexicon]IH[/lexicon] obviously have no specific results they can quote. If they referred (now) to the Lugano test as proving Rossi's tech works they would be laughed out of Court. Maybe the "industrial test" will have results [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] feel able to announce. Maybe not. We will find out in due time, and indeed until reports are ready etc you don't expect leaks.

So what do they say:

"We have developed a group of LENR thought leaders, ": That says nothing has to success of commercial application, and indicates (correctly) that they are engaged in supporting long-term research.

"We are pleased with the technologies we have assembled": meaningless. What company investing in LENR would not say this? However note the plural here, they are not willing to put all their eggs in one basket and not emphasising Rossi.

"and with the group of scientists and engineers working on them.": totally meaningless. Any company has to say this.

"Our portfolio of work has never been stronger": meaningless as well, how could their portfolio of work get weaker?

"and we remain excited about the potential we see. This optimism is grounded in more than just hope ....": I'm sure, they have test results, they have analysis of test results by scientists. The issue has always been whether the judgement of the scientists involved in these tests is sound. For example, in the case of the most recent most definitive publicly known test (Lugano) it was higfhly unsound.

"Our operating philosophy is to foster scientific and engineering rigor in the development of LENR. We will thoroughly assess data derived from sound experiments which we design, control and monitor." So I guess Lugano does not count. They seem cautious here, both I'd guess about MFMP-related premature announcements and Lugano-style reports that seem convincing but are thoroughly broken. I'm not certain about Lugano though, maybe this counts for [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] as a "sound experiment we design, control and monitor"? I'd hope not. As has been pointed out above, positive results from a Lugano-type (unbroken) test internal to [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] would need to be released fairly soon.

"Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both. Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector." This is what "sensible" LENR followers would say, and is I guess particularly motivated by the MFMP debacle.

"We value credibility through sound LENR research. That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by [lexicon]Industrial Heat[/lexicon] and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.". This is a "cover your back" statement and is also very proper. I'd hope the two Rossi tests (Ferrara and Lugano) do not qualify here - since that would mean their "reputable third parties" were known to be incompetent at the job of conducting these tests. In that case they are saying they have so far no reliable claims.

"The energy challenges of today must be met with viable, clean, safe and affordable solutions." this is the reason LENR is such an attarctive proposition. it would answer what is indeed a pressing need.

I thought, originally, that [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] was a Rossi "front". A vehicle controlled by Rossi. that is obviously not true now, if it ever was. Is Rossi still CTO of [lexicon]IH[/lexicon]? If so, I guess Rossi is directing these group of LENR "thought leaders".

Enough to give Krivit nightmares.

Tom Darden/Cherokee and Woodford made heavy investments in LENR technology leaders about two years ago.

The theory of AR as a scam artist was badly hit when Tom Darden stepped up at ICCF19 a year ago, followed by press release from [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] and later Woodford stepped up a few months ago defending their investment.

[lexicon]IH[/lexicon] invested in Brillouin also. No one believe Rossi being CTO over Godes. Brillouin / McKubre run their own race.

Are they all into the same scam? Of course not. Are they cheated? For a while maybe, but not for years. Do all experiments give a magic anomaly noone is able to mitigate?

Since the end of the test, again an enormous amount of posts in the related forums have been released. Needless typing of millions of letters. Now we oracle about the pre annoncement from [lexicon]IH[/lexicon].

It make me lough when i read about calometry, QoSteam etc. while there is a management summary in the making which will compare cost in $ before the e-cat to cost in $ with the e-cat. Simple as it is.

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This is the first unit of the plant that will give to the factory of our USA Partner all its necessary thermal energy, and is also the school ship for the employees.

This quote makes me think that the customer for the 1 year test is indeed an [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] owned factory

Shane:

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I detect some falling out. Maybe even internal legal battles possibly about rights to the IPs. Vaughn's "descriptive language" of Rossi, Dardens avoiding talk of Rossi or the Ecat, support that. It seems a strained business proposition nowadays.

Possibly it is [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] getting better control over their communication. I believe that the whole F9 thing was required by [lexicon]IH[/lexicon].

Rossi blogging in the name of [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] is probably something not desirable and had to be curtailed. Possibly [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] was advised that Rossi's blogging was a liability.

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Are they all into the same scam? Of course not. Are they cheated? For a while maybe, but not for years.

Given [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] has a "portfolio of technologies" and is engaged in research, it is not clear how any technology not working out would be a scam. [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] has not yet to my knowledge announced any working technology.

So in the case (which I think is very highly likely) that none of these technologies, including Rossi's, actually show LENR, what will [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] do?

The answer, surely, is what LENR research has done for so long. Take the indications that LENR supporters think constitute proof of something, and everyone else thinks is proof of nothing, as reason for hope and continue the research.

Let me ask this question a different way. What would they need to discover about Rossi's technology that would prove that (say) Rossi was a scammer? And, without such proof, what would they do?

Just as LENR is a non-disprovable hypothesis, so "LENR scammer" is an (almost) impossible to prove label.

So I disagree with the above quote, because in absence of proof of scam [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] would continue to hope. And I'd like those differing from me on this to take, for example, the Lugano test, which apparently convinced Woodford to come on board (correct me if I'm wrong on that).

(1) this does not in any way show excess heat
(2) this was stated (genuine mistake) by independent scientists as absolutely showing anomalous excess heat beyond possible chemical explanation (as in the title).
(3) they have never (to my knowledge) recanted that published view.

Now, no-one I think is accusing the Lugano testers of fraud - they just made a mistake. How could [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] know that Rossi has not made similar (genuine) mistakes?

Does anyone now believe there has not been a fall out between [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] and Rossi? Rossi showed up for work a few months back and found all his competitors there with recorders in hand. There has not been a license divorce but the lawyers are gearing up.

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March 12, 2016 at 9:42 AM
Dear Andrea,Congratulations on your latest LENR theoretical discovery.Looking forward to its publicized release.Now that the 1MW test is over and your time is dedicated to the success of the E-Cat X at Leonardo’s lab in Miami, are you still [lexicon]Industrial Heat[/lexicon]’s chief scientist?

With much respect,
Brokeeper

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Andrea Rossi
March 12, 2016 at 10:27

AMBrokeeper: No, my work in Leonardo Corporation absorbs my full time
Warm Regards,
A.R.

From the Defkalion affair, we know that rossi does not take direction kindly and he is not a team player. He does not like bean counters. He must resent having to send a year in an iron box and work through serious sickness as required by the [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] performance contract.

The change in relationship is probably not a bad thing, I'd say:

- Rossi got back to working independently the way he enjoys it best. He made some new break throughs in his work and is excited by it.

- [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] got their 1 year test done. They probably had to accommodate Rossi, but things must have worked out because the test did go all the way to the end. If the relationship had soured, things might not have gone all the way til the end of the test.

So in the end, the relationship between the patron and the artist has evolved, but the artist is probably happier and the patron was understanding enough to realize that it's worth continuing even though this isn't a classic business relationship.

Just a short time ago, [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] applied for their own patent based on the Lugano test results. That must have been an effort to develop [lexicon]IH[/lexicon]'s own IP. A patent defines the IP. That patent was not granted to the best of my knowledge. There will be more attempts for [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] to develop their own IP.

Rossi might have decided it was safer for his best interests to keep his distance from [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] to protect his IP. Remember that Defkalion made of impressive effort to develop their own IP, and Rossi hated Defkalion with a passion.

Rossi and his funders have a mongoose and cobra love affair. It will be interesting to see who will eat whom.