Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Quote from Rends

As I have always said, it is all about intellectual property, the Ecat is like the holy grail

Indeed - much talked about but never seen for real.

When you get what you asked for, and agreed to pay 89 mil for, it's not so hard to understand a lawsuit is only a way to guarantee that you pay, when the payee gets cold feet. After the payment is done, then let that robot factory start a record breaking run!

The license agreement with Rossi is a license agreement. Although [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] made use of the license after the $10M payment, at that time they were complying with the terms of the agreement. Now, they are in breach of those terms and therefore no longer have the license.

Rossi is not therefore entitled to the $89M. A license agreement is not a contract to pay certain sums unconditionally - merely a statement of what must happen for the license award to be valid.

At least that is my reading.

Rossi is also alleging fraud of various kinds. The agreement allows [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] to prosecute patent actions themselves (for the US territories) so the fact that they have a patent in their name seems irrelevant to me unless it is an international patent. I doubt the other issues Rossi raises will have any real validity - but that must be just a guess.

Interestingly - if [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] had evidence that the Fabio report test was incorrect or untrue in any respect that would invalidate the license agreement and they would be entitled to their $10M back. The Lugano Report was after the date of this agreement and therefore does not I think enter into legal matters.

Quote from Al

When you get what you asked for, and agreed to pay 89 mil for, it's not so hard to understand a lawsuit is only a way to guarantee that you pay, when the payee gets cold feet.

Read the license agreement. If [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] don't want the license they do not have to pay. And, for the period that they were complying with the agreement (after the $10M payment) they were entitled to the license.

Whoa -

Wait a minute!

From Sikerpol: "Rossi was supposed to be paid for all COP>2.6 (the Lugano Report). For COP>6 he was supposed to be paid $89M. In between COP of 2.6 to 6, he was supposed to be paid and percentage of the $89M related to the COP achieved."

If the $10M payment was made after the Lugano Report and data from that used to justify payment then [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] can ask for it back. The report figures are not "true and correct" as required by the license agreement.

Sikerpol's take is that Darden/[lexicon]IH[/lexicon] never intended to pay the $89M. That is possible I suppose, except...

They must have believed this 1MW plant was real, manufacturable, and sellable. It justifies the money, just a license for the US which is a vast market. The agreement puts in maximum construction and fuel costs for such a plant.

They do not, themselves, have anything with such immediate financial value.

It seems a bit surprising that they would do a big fund-raising on the basis of future profits from this license and then void it.

Here's another theory. [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] could not find premisses because they were dotting is and crossing ts, and they could not get regulatory permission. That would also mean that the license does them no good - so it makes sense for them to make sure all hoops can be jumped through. Rossi claims his device is not nuclear (which is true of course) and does not have those hoops.

In Rossi's action he stated that he has been working on his "advanced fuel cell" for 20 years. Did anyone else pick up on that?

OK - the speculation here is about 0.1 Axil - and therefore pretty high!

But it is interesting. If it is true that the Leonardo president signed on behalf of Rossi's customer that is strange.

[quote=Maxs on ECN]Henry Johnson, who signed as president on behalf of Rossi´s “customer” JM Chemical Products, is also the registered agent for Leonardo Corporation and is listed as president of Leonardo!
http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=EntityName&directionType=Initial&searchNameOrder=LEONARDO P100000912200&aggregateId=domp-p10000091220-e18d294e-6d0c-4011-a0a4-ba045b78b5b0&searchTerm=Leonardo&listNameOrder=LEONARDO G370440
Here is the record for J.M. Chemical Products
http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=EntityName&directionType=Initial&searchNameOrder=JMCHEMICALPRODUCTS P140000561170&aggregateId=domp-p14000056117-f1b317f1-99eb-48c8-9cce-18b618a70d75&searchTerm=JM Chemical&listNameOrder=JMCHEMICAL 4821020
Also here, Henry Johnson is registered agent and officer/director.
It seems Henry Johnson is a law office for company incorporations. It looks like he was used as a shill to camouflage the real ownership of that company. Perhaps installed by Rossi himself?
I can´t find so far a record of any real business of this company (but search ongoing). So far looks like a classical paper company, further confusion by name change. Also, no records before 2014.
Why would they even need 1 MW power?

Quote from robert bryant

Technology development is the same. Tesla's AC generator patents and his relationship with Westinghouse were messy
but the world has his sausages even though he died penniless.

Of course there was Steinmetz and others completing and perfecting the many early AC conceptions, similarly there may be such with deep pockets to complete and perfect the pioneering LENR ideas.

GE ended up with a lot of AC technology under patent through Steinmetz' and others properly understanding and ultimately perfecting AC machinery. The deep pockets can often get much deeper through litigation.

For a somewhat more diverse view of Tesla and AC see: http://www.edisontechcenter.org/tesladebunked.html

Quote from Sikkerfoll

So. You're arguing that the fact that [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] and Rossi agreed on using Penon as ERV is not true, even though it sais so in the agreement? You're arguing that he is "dependant" for the same fictional reason (Rossis choice...). And you're arguing that the fact that [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] made an agreement with Rossi is in itself an argument for their incompetence and thereby an argument for them being defrauded. ... You must be getting really really dizzy from all these circular arguments. Your flood of inconsistencies is somewhat suspicious I believe. Looks like damage control.

Why do you think I'm arguing that? Fabio is suspect here because he is a Rossi nominee. The quote above was me disagreeing with the argument that Rossi wanted Penon because he was competent! Obviously, this is a conflict of interest because Rossi wants good test results which may or may not be furthered by competence. In the case of Lugano extreme incompetence was needed to make the results good.

You are quite right that [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] have been careless (to put it mildly) in accepting Rossi's tests, for example I'm pretty sure that it took them a long time to work out that the Lugano test results were just wrong.

As for [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] being defaruded - I'm not arguing that. They did not do good scientific DD or they would not have been so enthusistic about Rossi. That is no surprise - Darden is a LENR fan and to be this you need to accept that "normal" scientists will be prejudiced about LENR and therefore for DD they would go to LENR scientists. They also would - I suspect - have been influenced by the Swedes as "independent" scientists involved in the testing. The Swedes may be independent - but are without doubt extremely foolish and [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] has been the same.

Many people think that being foolish is the same as being defrauded - I'm not one of them.

" ... If [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] don't want the license they do not have to pay. ... "That would be also a good outcome! Leaves the doctore free to make other arrangements for his proven product! Either way it is humanity that will reap the real benefit, sans money.

Quote from Al S

&quot; ... If <a href="https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/wiki/index.php/Entry/7-IH/">[lexicon]IH[/lexicon]</a> don't want the license they do not have to pay. ... &quot;That would be also a good outcome! Leaves the doctore free to make other arrangements for his proven product! Either way it is humanity that will reap the real benefit, sans money. <img src="https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/wcf/images/smilies/smile.png" alt=":)" />…

I absolutely agree that if Rossi's product worked as billed it would be worth more than $100M for a US license and Rossi can make arrangements with one of the many other parties who will be queuing up now.

However, I remember that long string of failed tests, all of which Rossi still claims to be successes, and I wonder how convincing this latest test will be to those not already convinced.

It is typical of Rossi's style to want money up front for a license. more profitable for him long-term, and better for a partner, would be an arrangement where he licenses the manufacturing and distribution to the partner (who would have much greater resources than Rossi) and the license is something more reasonable up front together with a significant slice of the ongoing royalties. Much better for everyone. But, of course, if Rossi's stuff is not actually sellable - for whatever reason - this $100M up front on the basis of a few tests is ideal for Rossi.

I also dont understand what Thomas Clarke intention is. There is absolutely no doubt about LENR for long time, there are many scientists around the world that can show you clear results. It is unbelieavable that you are blind for such things.
Do you really believe that somebody is filling WW patents just for fun?

Quote

Well, I guess you are dizzy and have serious problems with spelling... I pretend you're a 4 year old.
1. Penon was the ERV agreed upon by both parties. It is stated in the agreement, regardless of your imagination.
2. Penon was not part of the Lugano test, but verified the tests PRIOR to that ending up in [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] paying $10M to Rossi (of some reason you ignore this fact)
3. After this validation he was again agreed upon by borth parties as an independent ERV.
4. From what I can see you're careful with the fraud word, using stupidity as explanation on all accounts of positive LENR verifications, Penon, Rossi, Swedes, ...
5. It might come as a surprise to you but most people involved are way smarter than you, especially when it comes to legal and business affairs. Your stupidity arguments are merely pathetic.
6. And finally you seem to argue that COP 50 could be missed and that the independent customer paying $1000/day would not notice if got 20kW or 1MW of steam. You should probably try a sauna like that and see if you can spot the difference... That would be interesting to watch actually. A bunch of pathoskepths being slowly boiled not noticing the temperature rising.

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I'd like to point out mildly that insults are both against site policy and do not strengthen your case.

There seems to be some misunderstanding here, but I'm not sure what it is so I'll reiterate my position.

1. I agree with you, and have never stated otherwise.

2. I'm fully aware of that - how could I not be - and have never stated otherwise

3. Yes, I'm fully aware that Penon was (unwisely by [lexicon]IH[/lexicon]) agreed twice to do validations. [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] have as I point out - using the Lugano test where lack of validation was very obvious as an example - been remarkably uncritical in their appraisal of Rossi's results. To be fair I suspect that what has changed over the last 6 months is that they have begun to doubt the integrity of Rossi's tests. Once you start doing this it is like a can of worms...

4. Yes, I'm careful with the fraud word as everyone should be. It is exceptionally had to prove duplicitous intent. So just because Rossi gets money for something that has never worked, it does not mean that he knowingly misinformed those who gave him the money. Rossi can easily claim that he believed consistently his stuff did work - and that may be true.

5. I'm arguing that [lexicon]IH[/lexicon] were extremely careless in giving money to Rossi without better proof his stuff works. Their actions now would seem to bear that out?

6. Have you read the license agreement? It says that COp will be established by the ERV using deltaT measurements on liquid between input and output of Rossi's reactor combined with flow measurements. The same method that has been used by Rossi in the past. It does not state how input power is measured. The ways this could be spoofed are:
(a) bad flow measurement (like DGT)
(b) wrong thermocouple siting (like many of Rossi's other tests)
(c) wrong electricity measurement (we do not know how this was done, and while a utility electricity meter is pretty safe it is not entirely so and other methods are even more unsafe).

Any one of these issues could result in a spurious COP of 6-50. The high end is of course meaningless because of stored heat. The average COP is stated in the claim to be more than 50 but that is incompatible with the ERV saying COP lies in the range 6-50. But whatever COP is claimed, any one of the above methods could give it.