Rossi: 1MW Plant Customer Bought Three More Plants

  • [feedquote='E-Cat World','http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/14/rossi-1mw-plant-customer-bought-three-more-plants/']Bernie Koppenhofer commented to Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics that did not understand why Rossi could not persuade the customer of E-Cat plant used in the year-long test to come forward and report on the savings they had made from using the E-Cat. Rossi responded: Andrea Rossi April 14, 2016 at 1:44 […][/feedquote]
  • So. He sells Plants to a industrial customer who can, if he wants to, reverse engineer.


    Why does not he sell a plant to a private customer. A Member of this forum? Or Mats Lewan? There is even a lower threat of reverse engineering because an industrial customer who can by 3 MW plants has more financial means of reverse Engineering than a single person.


    Contractually, IH surely does not prohibit him to do so anymore.

  • I guess that Rossi is clever enough and that their contract has many points what the customer is not allowed to do.
    If you are happy customer and your main business is focused on something different, you do not want to spend time with such things.
    Also reverse engineering does not mean success and also it will take at least few months - years to make it work similarly as the original.
    Especially software control tuning can take a lot of time - there are cases where money will not help.

  • It is not easy to see how these claimed orders for three plants now add anything to the 13 buyers for "1MW class plants" that Rossi said he had five years ago?


    There is a pattern to Rossi's claims which is that apparently substantial positive evidence turns out to be insubstantial or non-existent years later.


    For example, those 13 buyers for 1MW plants five years ago maybe seemed good news. And the one year 1MW long-term test with a real customer maybe seemed good news.


    For me, the year-long test always seemed bad news since more difficult to validate than the controlled external scientific tests and a big time-waster. It could be justified only if Rossi's stuff was otherwise validated on a small scale but we have never been there. We now have rumours from IH that they did not see the point of this test, and that it and the large up-front payment was the only model of collaboration that Rossi was offering to possible investors.


    Suppose the ERV report is universally positive and IH observers cast no doubt on it (which seems unlikely given rumours). we know that Rossi has had near 24/7 access to the plant in which the ecat and associated machinery lives over the period of the test. It would be a tough job to prove that some change he made to conditions did not interfere with measurements. As always, you do not have to assume this change is made deliberately - Rossi might merely be trying to optimise COP without realising that in fact what he was doing invalidated the measurement.


    It is instructive to recall the Hydrofusion (Svensk) independent test.


    Quote

    The investor group had instructed the SP Technical Research Institute , to monitor the measurement, and the researchers who attended measured an input electrical power that was two to three times higher than Rossi himself measured (the measurement used the SP so-called True RMS instruments ) .


    Despite this, Rossi unveiled a measurement report September 9, based on earlier tests where a lower input power and an energy surplus reported.


    Rossi claimed after that this device did not work - which must be true. But what is interesting is that during this test the testers, using high quality true RMS meters, got a very different COP from what Rossi did in his own measurements with (it must strongly be expected) average meters.


    The reason I go on about the Rossi tests is that they are the surest evidence of what he does or does not have. Those who have been interested in the technical details of these tests have raised doubts from the start but that voice gets drowned out by the flurry of PR and business opportunity excitement. All of that, including the current law suit, is less certain.


    There is the possibility that legal action will provide strong negative evidence, but no possibility it will provide strong positive evidence unless the court orders truly independent and rigorous tests to be conducted, as everyone close to Rossi has been asking for so long.

  • I am like a lot of other people "I like to believe Mr Rossi has made a very important discovery about cold fusion".
    Now i have to say that the critics are right to say that there is no substantial evidence for Mr Rossi"s claimes.
    Most people would say now "how hard could it be for Mr Rossi to give a demo with some official calibrated instruments".
    I don"t know anything about "cold fusion" ,but if Mr Rossi would be a little bit more open and for instance ask an independant
    forum to make a test case,it would clear the discussions up.
    There is a lot of arguing about patents and lots of money and i agree that it"s not a simple thing,but i know this:
    If Mr Rossi"s allegations are right, i wouldn't be worried about 89 million dollars and some other stuff.
    He would be the next Nobel price winner and going into history as an very important scientist,he also would have no
    probems to find investors and earning lots of money, and Yes it is as simple as that.
    Mr Rossi: Show us(the world) something!

  • Strabel


    Mr Rossi has allowed tests but they have been questioned and cannot convince his critics. He has since entered into an agreement with sponsors which restricts him giving out the sort of information me356 and MFMP might give.


    It will not be long now before someone like me356 overtake Mr Rossi who is getting 'bogged down' with disagreements and quarrels. Then maybe we will see that someone else will be the focus of all the 'sceptics' attention.


    But if in the meantime someone else can 'verify' Rossi's invention that will be good for Rossi, good for Industrial Heat and the LENR community. However, the sceptic community will be very suspicious of Mr Rossi's 'customers' and will first suspect they are a company that he himself has set up. The sceptics have been successful in casting doubt over most methods of measuring the 'excess heat' so they will not be happy until they can see a unit for themselves in 'Self Sustain Mode' with no wires or anything else powering it. There is some merit in this as the public will want this also. This is what Mr Rossi also thinks or something very similar.


    I put my hopes in ventures like MFMP and me356. Once the invention is out in the public domain no one can patent it using public information.


    Don't lose hope, an important investor in LENR (Mr Darden) is reported to have said this:


    "When asked why he invested in LENR, Darden noted that he is aware of nearly 50 reported positive cold fusion tests. He mentioned work at the US National Laboratories at Oak Ride and Los Alamos and SRI (possibly Michael McKubre’s work). He also mentioned work at the Electric Power Research Institute or EPRI. The EPRI is a think tank and research organization associated with the US electric power industry".


    So while the sceptics provide a very valuable 'check and balance' some very intelligent business people recognise it as a potential 'world changer'.


    The down side is that if Rossi slides into oblivion then LENR may, for a while, be treated again in the same way that Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons were treated In 1989.


    Best regards
    Frank

  • The sceptics have been successful in casting doubt over most methods of measuring the 'excess heat' so they will not be happy until they can see a unit for themselves in 'Self Sustain Mode' with no wires or anything else powering it.



    As Rossi stated himself in recent post on his blog: even in SSM the plant is consuming "some kWh/h".... This contradicts the "theory" that SSM is a mode without any external power from the grid.

  • Quote

    The sceptics have been successful in casting doubt over most methods of measuring the 'excess heat' so they will not be happy until they can see a unit for themselves in 'Self Sustain Mode' with no wires or anything else powering it


    I can see why you think this. Every test Rossi allows has skeptics pointing out there is an error. Have you ever considered that might be because Rossi only does tests that have errors? After all, he is not going to do a negative tests and if his stuff does not work he will be struggling to generate an apparent positive test, which he may then demonstrate.


    If he understands the error mode then this is deliberate, but otherwise quite innocent and expected.


    If you analyse the technical details of the errors you see they form a pattern that would be highly unlikely to crop up randomly. Especially because when these errors are pointed out to Rossi, and very easy to correct, he refuses to correct them.


    The question of why Rossi's tests have these errors gets brushed under the carpet - or not seen at all when viewed as "skeptics always find errors".

  • Thomas


    Don't lose hope, an important investor in LENR (Mr Darden) is reported to have said this:


    "When asked why he invested in LENR, Darden noted that he is aware of nearly 50 reported positive cold fusion tests. He mentioned work at the US National Laboratories at Oak Ride and Los Alamos and SRI (possibly Michael McKubre’s work). He also mentioned work at the Electric Power Research Institute or EPRI. The EPRI is a think tank and research organization associated with the US electric power industry".


    Mary Yugo thought it was all about Rossi as well, although this post and others may well be, there is a lot going on in LENR discovery. Okay, a lot of questions about Rossi, but Darden at least has an open mind and perhaps many more LENR investment programmes.


    Best regards
    Frank


    Best regards
    Frank

  • SSM for its stability may require additional power. If something does not need any power then it can be highly unstable in both directions.
    SSM is state where the fuel is highly excited and if not controlled runaway can happen.

  • me356


    Understood.


    My thoughts are along these lines: Currently cars require electric power to initiate and control their systems but are not 'linked' to an external power source. Thus it is easy for a lay person like myself to conclude they 'work' solely on the fuel loaded into the fuel tank. This I know will be a long time in the future for LENR but I suspect will be type of setup which will have any chance of convincing the 'sceptics'.


    But maybe that will not be necessary, just the investors and the market.


    Very best regards
    Wishing you success
    Frank

  • Quote

    Mary Yugo thought it was all about Rossi as well, although this post and others may well be, there is a lot going on in LENR discovery. Okay, a lot of questions about Rossi, but Darden at least has an open mind and perhaps many more LENR investment programmes.


    No-one other than Rossi has claimed stuff that works.


    There are lots of claims: but somehow none have yet made it to the "works well enough to be distinguished from experimental errors" stage.


    If LENR exists as you and many others think, it should be easy to get beyond that - so I wait in anticipation.

  • I think many people don"t like the secretive way this is all going.
    Is the main thing getting as much money as you can get or patents?
    Sometimes i think i am reading an episode of the x-files.
    Nobody is asking Mr Rossi for his "formula",but if you make allegations wich are IMPORTANT for
    Whole mankind you have to come out in the open.
    All this sponsor and clients secretcie.
    Is Mr Rosssi doing this only for rich "clients and sponsors"or is this important enough for all people.
    How much i like to think that Mr Rossi did make a "ïmpossible discovery" i hope he will come out in the open
    and not only for the"happy"few.

  • Strabel


    I suspect you think like many, however, people who invent things want to make money, very few want to give their invention for mankind although like I said earlier MFMP and me356 and now perhaps Hank Mills and others http://www.lookingforheat.com/…ation-nickel-factor-lenr/ seem to be putting what they have leaned into the public domain.


    Remember Nicola Tesla? He wanted his inventions to benefit all mankind. Edison and George Westinghouse had a mind for business, Tesla did not. Tesla patented his AC motors and power systems, which were said to be the most valuable inventions since the telephone. Soon, George Westinghouse, recognised that Tesla’s designs might be just what he needed in his efforts to unseat Edison’s DC current, licensed his patents for $60,000 in stocks and cash and royalties based on how much electricity Westinghouse could sell. Ultimately, he won the “War of the Currents,” but at a steep cost in litigation and competition for both Westinghouse and Edison’s General Electric Company.


    Marconi successfully sent a signal from England to Newfoundland. Tesla grumbled that the Italian was using 17 of his patents, but litigation eventually favored Marconi and the commercial damage was done. The U.S. Supreme Court ultimately upheld Tesla’s claims, clarifying Tesla’s role in the invention of the radio—but not until 1943, after he died.


    This is what Mr Rossi might face from the world of business if his inventions are real.


    We must wait and see, particularly if the new customers that Rossi has are able to share convincing information to the worlds sceptics.


    Best regards
    Frank


  • The only thing that matters is a LENR product on the market.

  • As Rossi stated himself in recent post on his blog: even in SSM the plant is consuming "some kWh/h".... This contradicts the "theory" that SSM is a mode without any external power from the grid.



    His command, monitoring, and control system requires power...think SCADA.



  • A car uses a battery to start up and continues to charge it when the car is in operation. When you build your own LENR system, you might want to add a battery to provide your system with stand alone SSM capability. It's a matter of taste, don't you think?