Rossi E-CAT HT on natural gas?

  • The E-CAT needs heat to get to operating temperature and I noticed that the E-CAT HT drive could be
    natural gas see http://ecat.com/ecat-products/ecat-ht-hot-cat-prototype.


    Natural gas operation would give it a very low hourly cost to operate as natural gas is 1/3 the
    cost of electricity. In the United States natural gas is cheap and plentiful, and if
    we use it wisely it could make it last many times longer than we expect. It can also be sourced
    via biogas which would be sustainable long-term.


    For those not connected to a natural gas supply propane could be used. Since the heat amplification
    is 6X the high cost of propane would be mitigated somewhat.

    • Official Post

    if E-cat is used just as an amplifier of heat, it is right that gas is the best primary source, because in US gas is a competetitive source of electricity, but with an efficiency about 1/3...


    note that Rossi claims a COP of 3 for gas version... anyway if you take from gas to heat, the COP of electric version is 2 (6*.33%), and 3 for the straight gas version.


    problem of gas e-cat is that it cannot be looped as an energy source.

  • "problem of gas e-cat is that it cannot be looped as an energy source."


    Not sure what you mean, by "looped" - do you mean using the heat output from an E-CAT to run another possibly larger E-CAT?


    If so then assuming a COP of 3X, an E-CAT with 10 kWh output heat could be directed into the input of a 30kWh E-CAT (or three 10kWh E-CATs)
    repeatedly until the required heat was produced?


    If this is possible then I would suggest Rossi redesign his 1 MW plant to not use 167 kW input power...

    • Official Post

    when I say looped I mean that like on a fission reactor, that electricity produced feed the reactor itself...
    not feeding another reactor


    chaining heat could be possible, but I'm afraid it is not, because of control and stability.
    I suspect that the mouse and cat of rossi, take advantage of very tricky control theory (phase shift) to allow stability...
    I'm also afraid that plugging an e-cat into a steam generator is not trivial...

  • Steam engines have similar engineering problems.


    Steam engines pre-heat the feed-water so as not to dump cold water into the boiler. And they do not like to get the boiler water level too low as that could cause an explosion.


    Dr Mitchell Swartz (MIT) talks about the Optimal Operating Point which is a curve (manifold) that falls off quickly in both directions under excess power conditions. If too much heat is added or removed too quickly the excess heat disappears.


    Not a trivial design problem but quite feasible to do with a micro-controller.

  • Dr Mitchell Swartz (MIT) talks about the Optimal Operating Point which is a curve (manifold) that falls off quickly in both directions under excess power conditions. If too much heat is added or removed too quickly the excess heat disappears.Not a trivial design problem but quite feasible to do with a micro-controller.

    • Official Post

    Dr Mitchell Swartz (MIT) talks about the Optimal Operating Point which is a curve (manifold) that falls off quickly in both directions under excess power conditions. If too much heat is added or removed too quickly the excess heat disappears.Not a trivial design problem but quite feasible to do with a micro-controller.


    Yes the question of that response transfer function is key to control and thus engineering.
    that it falls of on the high side is a good thing for control.
    My fear is that it is quite destructive on that side. If not, it allows stability.


    what Rossi said recently, that the cat was getting cooler when the mouse was hot make me think of a 90° phase shift, explaining why there is a mouse and a cat... to make a negative feedback which is stable... only a guess...


    the origin of the 90° phase shift is maybe that the heat is produced by flow of hydrogen in the material. some LENR scientist says nothing happens in stable condition, that it have to breath, with biggest example of "heat after death", where degassing cause massive heat release.


    few people understand that what allows fission nuclear energy is that
    1- neutrons are less absorbed at high temperature at some working point (and more absorbed at others like in A bomb, or in Chernobyl accident)
    2- this retroaction is slower than fission, but hopefully there are delayed neutrons production which are slow too, preventing the reactor to go berserk before the reaction is cooled down.


    it is the same for rocket solid fuel, which unlike explosive have to consume regularly, and thus burn less when pressure and heat increase.


    control is one of the key of LENR, and Rossi had problems.


    Brillouin according to recent mail from Sterling allan have also some problem at high COP.

Subscribe to our newsletter

It's sent once a month, you can unsubscribe at anytime!

View archive of previous newsletters

* indicates required

Your email address will be used to send you email newsletters only. See our Privacy Policy for more information.

Our Partners

Supporting researchers for over 20 years
Want to Advertise or Sponsor LENR Forum?
CLICK HERE to contact us.