me356: Reactor parameters [part 2]

    I am highly disgusted by some comments, although it was expected.


    The only thing I would like to say is that Nickel - Hydrogen reaction (even without lithium) can yield inconsiderable amount of neutrons. From thermal to high energetic.
    I can create this on demand and it is little bit worrisome.
    If you are targetting for reaching a decent COP, be prepared for this.


    To be more precise, you can receive 10mSv in a few minutes.
    It is not fun anymore... Take it seriously.


    To all replicators: Do not perform your experiments anywhere near your house

    me356: Just ignore the silly comments, most of people are simply dumb and an eagle doesn't catch flies...


    There is an interesting pin-point character of cold fusion initiated heating, as visible at multiple pictures of yours. I can't imagine the physical process which would heat the wall of alumina tube in this way other than some kind of particle jet, escaping from reaction site


    https://i.imgur.com/CyLqId5.gifhttps://i.imgur.com/43G1iRW.gif


    Is it an artifact of laser light of the IR thermometer? IR light has violet color in most cameras.

    me356
    how do you detect neutrons: He3, BF3, Li6, bubbles , ...?
    Cold Fusion is too important for your scaring messages without details. You are (almost) the first to declare high neutron fluxes.
    The way you proceed looks really like you are in an attempt to scary people out of Cold Fusion and in particular H-Ni system, even if you were honest.
    CF can be dangerous, but you are not helping with your claims to make it any more understandable and controllable. All good researchers keep neutron detectors on all the time anyway.
    I will ignore you claims up to further and detailed explanation, and I hope everyone, not only on LENR Forum will do the same.

    To be more precise, you can receive 10mSv in a few minutes. It is not fun anymore


    IMO the escapement of neutrons is just a matter of higher activation energies: at low voltage/frequency the LENR would be safe, as the neutrons are able to thermalize itself along the fusion sites. Therefore the risk of neutrons probably depends on experimental arrangement. Did you pass discharge directly through the sample (i.e. you used it as a cathode) or just around it?



    testing a pure discharge without modulation and then testing modulated plasma with partially visible balmer series.


    "Modulated" = DC discharge with AC component superposed?



    During the excess heat plasma is looking really cool - not possible to describe with a words. Separated into a thin slices (chunks).


    This could be manifestation of Townsends plasma avalanches - the escaping particles make the plasma more ionized and as such conductive.
    It's an analogy of Gunn effect, i.e. solid state avalanches. http://www.aepa-euskadi.org/es…nn-effect/gunn-effect.htm

    The reality is that LENR products wouldn't be released onto the market until they are certified safe so enough of the scare-mongering already.


    At the moment the technology is in the most Interesting discovery phase, and the patient (educated) trial and error, then refinement approach of ME356 seems to have payed off for him. And we should all be very glad about that and encourage him in any direction he wishes to proceed (his instincts have served him well so far).


    It would be fantastic if ME356 published everything for anyone with a remote garage and a couple of grand spare to replicate. If he chooses not to at this moment then I trust that he has good reasons. If I were in his position I think I would be just as keen to keep experimenting to see where I can take the tech rather than spend my time chatting to other people. I would be addicted to experimenting and how I could push the tech further. It must be an incredibly exciting time for him.


    ME356, I know it's not high on your agenda right now but would you be able to release a video of the effect when you turn the effect on/then off/then on again? I have read so many words over the past 5 years and your short video showing the effect creeping along the reactor tube was a nice visual surprise. To see that being controlled at will would be inspirational.


    All the best,
    keV

    The reality is that LENR products wouldn't be released onto the market until they are certified safe so enough of the scare-mongering already



    The E-CAT X / QUARK-X or similar reactors could be hacked by amateurs for to boost the production of neutrons, even if they would be certified as harmless. I'm pretty sure, all opponents of distributed energy sources would utilize it as an argument. But everyone can build a fusor in his kitchen too. The important here is, if the boosted reaction cannot lead into flux of neutrons, which could be weaponized or runaway in uncontrolled way.


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015…-detection-and-the-e-cat/

    @'me356
    Let us know if you'd prefer this thread remain as-is or if you'd like it to be curated more tightly.
    The spotlight shines for both better and worse. You appear to be the only experimenter who can control the new fire, so interest is high. With that comes a lot of idle chatter. I will ask to be made a moderator on this thread so that posts that are off-topic can be moved away or that don't comply with the site's policies can be removed. That is probably not a wise use of your time, and I suspect that the next month will be pretty intense.


    @everyone else
    The topic is "me356 Reactor Parameters". Let's try harder to keep our posts relevant to the title.

    Well If we want to take steps in a constructive direction. And try to do some science it is very smart to base your engagement on evidence and proof.


    me365:


    I think that radiation is a technical issue - Although I'm not an expert. But from what I understand a COP of 10 with kW of energy through ordinary fusion would result in much higher radiation.
    So there are great reason to think that one can engineer away this issue. So actually the claimed results are fantastic. Note that probably publishing an experiment that result in a sure moderate
    radiation would probably result in a Nobel Prize . We are speaking of 1 Million dollar or more. It would be a hard proof that there is something nuclear going on that should not be there. You don't need to
    measure COP or temperature very well - just measure the radiation that should not be there. It's true that you should not do this in your garage. That's not fun. But there are labs and people that can
    handle this and with a published result, that can be reproduced, researcher would have a good bite to chew on and we would surely see an end product utilizing the findings and make products for the
    better good of people. But there is no evidences so people can't invest. The only thing I myself can do and probably the only thing I'm capable to do here is to cheer you on your quest. You do what you wan't -
    it's your life, but the messages we get here is although entertaining in some way lost without data and hard evidences. Be careful and have fun.

    Zephir_AWT:

    Quote

    IMO the escapement of neutrons is just a matter of higher activation energies


    No, this is not true. Higher neutron flux can be achieved even with Parkhomov-like reactor and with pressures under 3 Bars.
    You do not need any acceleration e.g. by high voltage.


    But I am sure that it is possible to make it perfectly safe. On the other hand it is great indicator that the mouse process is working properly.


    I am absolutely sure about the neutron measurement. I am using a few bubble detectors that were carefully calibrated and certified and also electronic neutron detector with HDPE moderator. I am also using a paraffin moderator for triple-verification. These neutron detectors are not affected by gamma and all are giving clear results without any doubts.
    The most problematic part is, when the excess heat is triggered.


    I do not intend to scary anybody, but it is really not necessary to be a testing rat. Mostly all replicators do not use any radiation detectors and if so, they are insensitive for important energy ranges.
    If you do not believe, it is really not my problem.


    I want to make LENR available for all more than others. But you have to know, that it is not a toy, to be prepared and to not make mistakes that others already did.

    Thanks me356 for bringing the neutron issue to out attention. I like many I think were hoping they would not be present I guess. But now they have been observed by both you and MFMP we need to take proper attention. I think it's not all bad news though as long as the right care is taken, they may provide a very interesting window into both the physical and engineering processes going on in there. That could be a very good thing. As long as safety is properly ensured I think it's as important to understand the neutron production process as much as LENR process itself. We should give me356 and others time to digest this information see what it really means so he can make recomendations without pressure. What he has said already is important already.


    I understand from an earlier post on this thread that me356 has in the past suggested coordinated purchases of batches of neutron detectors to reduce costs? In retrospect I think it was a really good idea
    and also a good way maybe to support and help the engineers doing the replications. Does any one know how much they cost and how to get them? I suppose MFMP and perhaps Lookinforheat are a good place to start.

    The results me356 there are huge breakthroughs in the field LENR, so be patient and cautious because there are plenty of options and time to control the results. The detection of neutrons in any case leads to caution and slow down the process.

    • Official Post

    Re Neutron Detectors. - Lookingforheat.com are certainly happy to co-ordinate purchases and distribute neutron detectors to interested parties if there is sufficient demand. In the first instance please send us an email with some indication of your requirements while I wait for an update on prices from the manufacturers.We wont take any of your cash or any firm orders until we know just how many we can order.


    Alan.


    There has been something that has been bugging me for months now. Now, it is time to vent.


    How can we know what kinds of particles are being produced by the LENR reaction. For example, Holmlid states that he is producing a boatload of neutral particles but little or no neutrons.


    How can we tell the difference between a neutral particle and a neutron of the same energy. First of all, what are neutral particles and where do they come from?


    These fragments of molecules are most likely pieces of metalized hydrogen that have been blasted apart by nuclear reactions that have been catalyzed by the LENR reaction. These are ions that have been neutralized but still have lots of kinetic energy that have been imparted to these molecular fragments by LENR reactions.


    These fragments are far larger than neutrons and cannot enter into the nuclei of atoms to form unstable isotopes. So the difference in the behavior of these two neutral particles: neutrons and neutral particles are as follows:


    They both will look the same on a bubble detector.


    The neutral particle might produce a gamma when it hits reactor structure but it might not if the LENR reaction is suppressing gamma.


    We want to shield both types of particles from entering the body but the shielding is different. Neutrons are far more penetrating because they are smaller.


    The neutron will be absorbed by reactor structure and will produce gamma when the resulting unstable isotope emits gamma radiation at a later time. This is called activation.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_activation


    Quote

    Neutron activation is the process in which neutron radiation induces radioactivity in materials, and occurs when atomic nuclei capture free neutrons, becoming heavier and entering excited states. The excited nucleus often decays immediately by emitting gamma rays, or particles such as beta particles, alpha particles, fission products and neutrons (in nuclear fission). Thus, the process of neutron capture, even after any intermediate decay, often results in the formation of an unstable activation product. Such radioactive nuclei can exhibit half-lives ranging from small fractions of a second to many years.


    If Me356 does not see gamma during his run, he is being protected by the LENR radiation shield. But is he sees gammas long after the test are over when the gamma shield has dissipated, those neutral particles might not be neutrons.


    What makes neutrons dangerous is the long lasting activation based radiation that remains over a long period of time when the unstable isotopes are being stabilized. If Me356 is not seeing latent radiation from neutron activation, then those particles MIGHT be neutral particles.


    LENR is a new type of nuclear reaction so much work still needs to be done to evaluate what types of subatomic and molecular particles are being generated. MFMP et al has this definition as its highest priority, IMHO.

    We bought two BTI bubble detectors through their US rep Pulcir Inc. The Personal Neutron Detector (100 keV threshold, 82 bubbles/mrem) was US$164. The Thermal Neutron Dosimeter (<100keV, 30 bubbles/mrem) was $347. They are reusable for at least several months if correctly reset on a daily basis.


    We considered this to be the bare minimum for safe detection of Neutrons. Additional detectors will be added for future experiments, as and when available.


    AlanG / MFMP

    axil: I fully agree with you and I admit it is possible. Each experiment is little bit different because of design and other techniques.
    The latest experiment generated high neutron flux while no measurable gamma.


    Although I have measured neutrons for a few times when reactor was turned off (for period of days) after such period reactors are always clean and nothing seems to be activated.
    But a lot of investigation is needed.

    Quote from magicsound

    We bought two BTI bubble detectors through their US rep Pulcir Inc. The Personal Neutron Detector (100 keV threshold, 82 bubbles/mrem) was US$164. The Thermal Neutron Dosimeter (<100keV, 30 bubbles/mrem) was $347. They are reusable for at least several months if correctly reset on a daily basis.


    We considered this to be the bare minimum for safe detection of Neutrons. Additional detectors will be added for future experiments, as and when available.


    AlanG / MFMP


    I am depressed and saddened that no one whose has gotten the LENR reaction going has taken my rants about the need for a cloud chamber to heart. Such a science instrument can visualize and quantify all those subatomic particles being produced by these dogbone reactors. The quest for excess heat is misdirected. Subatomic particle production is the true indicator of a nuclear reaction and it is far easier to detect.


    A sheet of aluminum paper will keep the reactor heat away from the cloud chamber and still let those muons through.


    Why does't the "QuestForHeat" have cloud chambers on their product list?


    I can see it now. When Me356 turns on the stimulant, the cloud chamber fogs over in a burst of subatomic particle production, and then when the stimulant is removed, the chamber clears up again. What a internet LENR demo that would make. Such a show would even shut up Tom Clarks' flapping lips forever. So sweet.

Subscribe to our newsletter

It's sent once a month, you can unsubscribe at anytime!

View archive of previous newsletters

* indicates required

Your email address will be used to send you email newsletters only. See our Privacy Policy for more information.

Our Partners

Supporting researchers for over 20 years
Want to Advertise or Sponsor LENR Forum?
CLICK HERE to contact us.