me356: Reactor parameters [part 2]

    @Wyttenbach @Peter Ekstrom


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…maging_Cherenkov_detector


    Holmlid is claiming that his experiments are producing short lived subatomic particles. It seems to me that the simple detection of excess heat can only get us so far in the explanation of the LENR reaction. What might be the correct next step in LENR experimentation is to come up with a low energy subatomic particle detection method that can identify the particles that may be produced by the LENR reaction.


    The reference above explains the way high energy subatomic particles are detected. With the advantage of your life long scientific backgrounds, might this technology be converted to a method that can detect particles with energy levels in the LENR energy range?


    The use of aerogel in a Cherenkov style detector might be adapted to such a task. Your opinions and that of the other members of the community are most welcome.



    The following reference is an application of this idea using aerogel


    https://www.jlab.org/Hall-C/talks/06_22_12/hlavin.pdf

    I have been thinking about this comment made by me356

    Quote

    On the other hand, one who know how this thing is working, can start it with a hammer.


    If he was serious wouldn't it be more cost effective to try low frequency stimulus rather than the various high frequencies proposed in this thread?


    With the right audio signal a deep drumbeat through a high powered subwoofer would cause the sort of shock you would get from hitting the reactor with a hammer, and is in line with LENR methodology using shock waves as a trigger.


    Quote

    Stimulation/triggering of reactions to create non-equilibrium conditions: current pulsing, thermal cycling, electrical discharge, application of electric or magnetic field, pressure changes, ultrasound, low-power laser, shock wave, projectile impact, etc. In many cases, particularly with electrolysis, anomalies do not occur when the system is in equilibrium.

    /* How do you make free protons with a microwave oven? The microwave oven photons have an energy of around 10-5 eV each. Dissociation of one H2 molecule requires 4.25 eV. Ionization of on H atom requires 13.6 eV. How do you synchronize 1360000 photons to ionize one hydrogen atom? */


    This is the right question. John Kanzius managed to disociate the water molecules (which requires 1.45 eV) with 14 MHz radiowaves (5.10E-8 eV). Therefore the surplus of energy required here is similar to this one of cold fusion (in relative numbers). IMO these two processes have many things in common. The point is, you don't have to synchronize 1360000 photons: the 200 hydrogen atoms is enough.


    http://aetherwavetheory.blogsp…ter-and-water-memory.html

    /* after 25 pages of posts,do we know how to replicate this? */


    Just put the HF discharge from solid state Tesla coil to nickel sample in hydrogen atmosphere at elevated temperature and pressure (few bars are enough). The AC voltage should be superposed with DC voltage while having nickel as a cathode. When lithium vapors are also present, you can get much higher yield but also neutrons.

    Quote from ilia

    With the right audio signal a deep drumbeat through a high powered subwoofer would cause the sort of shock you would get from hitting the reactor with a hammer, and is in line with LENR methodology using shock waves as a trigger.


    Quote from barty

    Just use a hammer and hit a bit on the table on which the reactor is placed to induce vibrations?


    Just checkout http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/WallaceKatributeto.pdf !!


    The orignal paper can be found in ICCF 11 (proceedings).


    I have no experience in high-energy detectors like Cherenkov detectors.
    Also, I do not believe that Holmlid produces heavy elementary particles.
    It is hard enough to understand MeV energies in LENR. For heavy
    particles to be detected with Cherenkov counters you need GeV energies (velocities approaching c).


    To detect charged particles (protons, alphas...) I would use Si DE/E
    detectors to determine the mass). For neutrons NE215 liquid plastic
    scintillators with pulse shape discrimination (PSD) should be safe.


    But, frankly, I think it is a waste of time.

    /* @me356 said multiple times that all "secrets" are well known since few decades, but simply not taken serious. */


    And it's really so. Tandberg patented the very same fusion in 1936, like Fleischmann-Pons fifty years later. The formation of neutrons in deuteron discharge is the thing, which even Einstein has been aware in 1947.


    http://nautil.us/issue/7/waste/einsteins-lost-hypothesis


    The people just refute to admit it and even if not, they rather prefer the void twaddling at forums like this one instead of doing experiments.
    Of course this ignorant attitude plays well with efforts of many pathoskeptics.

    "Void twaddling" {I like the concept} on the Forums can save a lot of effort and avoid a lot of mistakes. I would agree that it sometimes seems the work bench is the only respite when naysaying for its own sake becomes the apparent center of gravity.


    I appreciate your look back to early reports, thanks Zephir_AWT!


    Leif Holmlid et al as peer reviewed by both the AIP and the american society for mass
    spectroscopy.


    http://tempid.altervista.org/SRI.pdf


    Meson chain and conservation of energy


    Only two possibilities


    Coherent multi body fusion
    Proton/deuteron to Meson spallation
    Quantum entanglement needed


    DN(0) →···→···→ K± → π± → μ± → e±
    Nx4x938MeV → 493MeV → 139MeV → 105MeV → 0. 511MeV



    See Muon detection studied by pulse-height energy analysis


    =============================


    Note that Holmlid claims the production of D mesons.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_meson


    This indicates that strange matter is being produced. If this data is true, the cause of LENR is unambiguous, Holmlid also says that fluorescent light can produce muons which implies that fluorescent light can produce D mesons.


    In this experimental data reveals the essence of the LENR cause. This data must be reproduced and verified. Looking for excess heat is a dead end. Determining the cause of LENR will be found in the subatomic particles that the reaction produces. Holmlid states that there are only two possible explanations of this data, so justifying the theory of LENR will be easy once the sub-atomic particle generation data is verified.


    I beleive that both Coherent multi body fusion and Proton/deuteron to Meson spallation are occurring.

    Quote from ilia

    I have been thinking about this comment made by me356
    Quote: “On the other hand, one who know how this thing is working, can start it with a hammer. ”
    If he was serious wouldn't it be more cost effective to try low frequency stimulus rather than the…


    That caught my eyes also in original post, but in addition to your shock wave theory I could guess hitting hammer on some hard surface (steel, aluminium, rock) could generate also ultrasound. Actually quite high power one, I remember by just properly hitting bigger rock with normal hammer lead my ears ringing (distance >100cm) for quite some time.

    The British Government hold the view that LENR is not 'proven' and for many of us on this forum, whilst having our suspicions that something is definitely 'going on', formal acceptance is still a long way off.


    The fact that the waters are progressively 'murkey' will, I have no doubt, delay any likelihood of 'public pronouncements' for acceptance by the main stream scientific community and governments. Therefore it is easy to see that the continuing 'mud slinging' has an effect which encompasses the whole area of LENR and related technologies not just Rossi, and his dispute with Darden et al.


    When the Rossi saga fades away, MFMP and ME356 will be the next target for the sceptics. Generally this is good but recently this has degenerated into a non scientific very damaging war synonymous of the Pons and Fleishmann debacle. Only MFMP seem to be brave enough to be truly open.


    I hope ME356 can at least work with MFMP on this closely so that any unwanted attention is avoided for him, which we must respect.


    Keep up the good work.


    Best regards
    Frank

    I had a look on the the compounds listed for the mixture of the 'patent' http://rexresearch.com/colman/colman.htm Some compounds aren't not existing in nature:
    CdCl doesn't exist. CdCl2 exists but this a nasty product to play with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_chloride The original patent says CdCl2.
    Ca(PO3)2 is a proton conductor http://india.cchem.berkeley.ed…/topics/papers/proton.pdf
    Co(NO3)2.6H20 exists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt(II)_nitrate It decomposes at a relatively low temperature (74°C). The Co(NO3)2 is a precursor for a Fischer-Tropsch catalyst once it is reduced!


    What are the roles of zinc and copper ?


    I've edited after looking at the original patent.

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