Mat Lewan Meets Rossi in Sweden, Rossi Bidding on Factory For QuarkX Production

    • Official Post

    So stupid. This much to talk about, yet already bogged down with petty insults, and tit for tats. I have been in the thick of things 5 years now, and still do not understand how this issue always seems to devolve this way. Either it is, or is not. Take a side, and argue...respectfully, and passionately, but check your ego at the door.


    Lewan's blog article is rich for honest discussion on many fronts; i.e. technical, Penon, Lugano, although one could not tell from the childish dialogue on display.

    Paradig - that is fantastic news! I know a potential customer in Miami unless you want to consider JM Products and Leonardo two different potential customers. If you make a sale from this lead, pls donate any commissions to the "Save the Planet Rossi Fund" in Sifferkoll's name.

    I dare not sell any product until it has arrived correct certifications, by experts in the fields of such autorizations. It must also respect the indipendence of IP regards to devices that can be similar in design. These similar devices are the children of others.

    Quote from anonymous

    Is there water input temperature measurements; and is the pressure constant? If I follow Clarke's calculation, what if the secret customer's plant returns 99.9 degree water, or even 101 degree water under pressure? Is there something missing from my understanding of the test setup?


    There's one detail from Mats's blog post, paraphrasing what Rossi told him, that is good to mention:


    Quote

    The water heated by the MW plant was circulating in a closed loop, and since the return temperature was varying, due to different load in the process of the customer, Rossi insisted that the energy corresponding to heating the inflowing cooled water (at about 60˚C) to boiling temperature would not be taken into account for calculating the thermal power produced by the MW plant. The ERV accepted. (This was conservative, decreasing the calculated thermal power.


    The discounted range of temperature for the input water goes all the way up to boiling. That was not enough of a discount, so Rossi claims to have subtracted an arbitrary 10 percent on top of that. Takeaway: assuming this detail from Rossi is sincere and accurate (different people will assume different things here), we don't know what the input temperature was, and an input temperature of 60 C is not a safe assumption.


    Of course it is, that is why I stated it ;) ... Do you deny there being an accountability factor on statements made?

    Quote from sifferkoll

    Of course it is, that is why I stated it ;) ... Do you deny there being an accountability factor on statements made?


    Do I deny it? I think your perspective on accountability is absolutely absurd. Rossi has produced nothing but lies, delays, past scams that put him in prison...still to provide a single shred of verifiable proof. I have not seen this track record with IH, so while I am not convinced that they are squeaky clean, I think bets are best to be placed on IH in this horse race. COP~50...give me a break!

    One thing that wasnt really asked till now:
    Why does IH care at all about the little chatter in the blogo- and forumsphere?
    If it really is the way they say it why bother? The court will rule in their favor 100%, Rossi will disappear fast and they can go on with whatever it is they are really doing.
    Why does somebody like Mr. Weaver uses waste amounts of his precious spare time to discredit people openly here and on other sites?
    Is there nothing better to invest his time in? Apparently not...
    But why?

    Quote from monty

    One thing that wasnt really asked till now:
    Why does IH care at all about the little chatter in the blogo- and forumsphere?
    If it really is the way they say it why bother? The court will rule in their favor 100%, Rossi will disappear fast and they can go on with whatever it is they are really doing.
    Why does somebody like Mr. Weaver uses waste amounts of his precious spare time to discredit people openly here and on other sites?
    Is there nothing better to invest his time in? Apparently not...
    But why?


    Mr. Weaver's motives are strange. Is he a mark or a player in this deal? Has he lost money to IH and blames Rossi? It seems to me that IH has screwed Mr. Weaver in a no lose gambit to benefit IH where Rossi was not a part. Mr. Weaver should be pissed at IH. Has Mr. Weaver somehow made money out of this situation? There is that old saying...follow the money.



    As far as IH/Cherokee is concerned, If IH wants to stay in business, they must keep their reputation in tact for the next investor screwing. If it becomes generally known how IH/Cherokee makes money at the expense of the shareholder and investor interests , their days are numbered. So good PR and reputation is job one.

    Quote from "renzz"

    Do I deny it? I think your perspective on accountability is absolutely absurd. Rossi has produced nothing but lies, delays, past scams that put him in prison...still to provide a single shred of verifiable proof. I have not seen this track record with IH, so while I am not convinced that they are squeaky clean, I think bets are best to be placed on IH in this horse race. COP~50...give me a break!


    I could ask you about exactly what "scams" that put Rossi in prison and your assessment on these legal cases (including those officials recently convicted on corruption in Italy connected the cases). I believe they are described in detail on this site and in Mats book. Maybe you should do a background check before throwing out accusations like these. Shame on you!


    IH on the other hand seems to have a far worse track record regarding "bad" investments compared to tax/bankruptcy problems due to Italian corruption. Not squaky clean I would say is an understatement in the Meadowland case ...


    And I can assure you that IH has all the proof they want on Rossis tech working. It simply does not suit their agenda to say so right now. Wonder why ... A couple of months ago when cashing $50M from Woodford they were singing another tune. Nothing have changed since then regarding the ERV as you now (the quarterly reports being consistent) - Only different IH agenda - Now it's all about not paying $89M to Rossi (without losing the agreement) and saving their sorry asses from Woodford litigation.


    IH also now that Woodford visited the plant several times during last year doing their own due diligence and listening to Darden smooth talking... So they also know the plant works. They can take the loss, but Darden is certainly toast in their minds and if I was Darden I'd be somewhat worried about what kind of questions are coming from that directions regarding his previous statements on Rossi IP & tech ...

    Doesn't anyone see the elephant in the room here?


    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    IH wanted to cancel the disaster of a test and pay Rossi a significant sum for 100 watts of excess heat at a reasonable COP. Rossi would have nothing to do with this. He was given his chance. Poor Mats - that hook is sunken so deep that it is going to have to rust out.


    Dewey Weaver just confirmed that Rossi told Mats the truth when he said that IH wanted to cancel the test just after they received the first 3-month report.


    However, Rossi also cleary stated on JNOP that Darden showed the plant to investors (supposedly Woodford) after IH received the first 3-month report.


    Either Rossi is lying about this (which would be extremely stupid, as the visitors are of course available as witnesses to the court) or IH itself would be guilty of criminal fraud by raising investment money when they already knew - according to Dewey Weaver - that Rossi's technology didn't work and that the plant produced a COP of 1.

    • Official Post

    Playing Devil's Advocate on behalf of IH; looking at what we know now about the plants dimensions, the type of building not looking to be suitable for heavy industrial use, uncertainty over "where, or what, the water was going to", the 2 room set-up, venting waste heat through the roof, IHs difficulty in communicating with the ERV (according to Dewey), it does look like a sloppy operation overall. IH probably noticed similarities with his other, earlier, sloppy, and ultimately inconclusive demos and tests...and here looked to be another repeat. This time though with them on the hook for $89 million.


    Then there is always the issue of Rossi himself. By all accounts, he is mercurial in normal situations, so one can imagine him being even more difficult to deal with in that tight little setting. The heat, noise, pressure of doing the "night shift", losing weight to where he looked like a scarecrow, and having those pesky "observers" looking over his shoulders. Building up anger over what IH was doing with *his" IPs, Vaughn saying he was "not credible", starting their own LENR research lab without him, IH not wanting to do the 1 year test in the first place, him having to do all their work. Rossi was probably a powder keg waiting to blow.


    Putting this all together, could anyone here truthfully say they would shell out $89 million under these circumstances? Would you be confident the technology works...beyond any doubt, the results trustworthy, and your money well spent?


    I wouldn't.


    Now granted, Ih had ample time to set up their own, more appropriate facility, and setting, for the test, and decided not to do what the contract stipulated. Had they done so, maybe things would be different now.

    Hi Shane.


    I agree, it probably isnt too easy to work with Rossi. And he is maybe not too precise in his experiments.
    But IH knew this for a full 52 weeks and probably even before the test startetd. And they agreed to Penon being the independent expert and even payed half of his salary. And they payed Rossi the first and second batch of money.
    And they got reports every month. And they had their people in the facility. So now they complain? Something is more than fishy about this. They either hide something or they dont know their business is my conclusion.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Eric Walker

    Takeaway: assuming this detail from Rossi is sincere and accurate (different people will assume different things here), we don't know what the input temperature was, and an input temperature of 60 C is not a safe assumption.



    Eric,


    Unlike you guys, I am way out of my league discussing the mechanical issues. That part about not accounting for heating up the input temp to 60C is confusing. Without further amplification everyone seems to be stymied as to whether it is another conservative factor Rossi built in -like the 10% you mention, or a negative to be counted against the COP. I have seen arguments for both, but like I said, we have limited information.


    Since it is a closed loop, I took it to mean the initial warm-up period at the start of the test, or restarts after maintenance downtime. But I see others are guessing that, due the comment about varying loads, it is for every loop the water comes back from the "whatever it is in the next room".


    Whatever the case may be, I am guessing the issue is not major, or a killer blow, as that would be too obvious and we would have heard about it by now. Maybe Dewey can give us a clue? If he will, hopefully a little more than the last one..."100.1C". ;)


    I have read many different perspectives on Rossi's criminal activities that put him in prison. I don't believe most of the spin on it...from what I gather Rossi's prison time was well deserved. Every single government on this planet is riddled with corruption, Italy would be no exception. If we discounted every court case because of possible government corruption, everyone would go free. Spin spin spin. He deserved prision time...he got it. Some of the photos and reports of the environmental damage are quite sad.


    I believe that IH had very much confidence in Rossi early on, but Rossi could not deliver in the end. No one in their right mind would walk away from the brass ring for peanuts in relative terms. If Rossi could achieve COP~50...or hell even COP~5, he would have the technology of the century and IH would capitalize on it no matter what it took. To think that IH would walk away from an agreement that would be worth more money than anyone has ever conceived is beyond ludicrous. Don't give me any B.S. excuses about raising the money, I don't believe it...it is what they do. Don't bring me a bogus concocted story about IH wanting to push Rossi out, because even without pushing out Rossi, the invention of a lifetime would still be worth more money than anyone in IH could ever shovel into their homes. I am so tired of the fantasy world you people live in that discounts this reality...it is beyond absurd. I think Rossi easily fooled everyone. If you built a plant, you would be able to fool everyone as well. Everything from rigged monitoring equipment (which is easy to do if you know how and return it to cal before examination), hidden wiring, hidden devices, edited data within databases and reports...oh god the list could go on and on how an intelligent person could rig a test no matter if it was for an hour or for a year. It would be REAL easy if you were to sway the tester to at very least look away from time to time if millions are at stake. Imagine the amazement at a human being swayed by millions even if he has a clean background....insert sarcasm tag. I will wrap up by reminding people of Ross's degree in chemical engineering from the University of Kensington, California. That university was shut down by government authorities as a fake diploma mill. That should be a pretty good indicator of character and wisdom. When will you stop following Rossi's carrot or better yet ecat on a stick? He is a scammer who will hopefully get what he deserves...which may include jail time...

    AR just wrote this answer on his blog about Darden and the customer:
    "Darden and his investors met the Customer in the meeting rom of the offices, that is separated from the production area"


    So, let's assume that Darden visited AR's test location in Florida at some point during the one year test. And when Darden visited someone presented him or herself as the customer to Darden in a separate meeting room.


    Something is wrong with this picture. Why wouldn't Darden go into the production area and ask the workers what they were doing and how much power and heat they were using? Why would Darden accept meeting the customer in a meeting room as full evidence of what the customer was doing at this site? That person could have been an actor and nothing could have been taking place in the production area. Before handing over $89MM, and even just watching over the $11MM that Darden already gave AR, wouldn't he be the least bit curious to open the door to the production area and talk to the people working in there? No answer regarding safety, customer secrecy etc. would suffice as a reason for Darden to not go in there? And who was this person that Darden met in the meeting room? What is their job title? Where do they work? What is that person responsible for making? How much power dothey need for their operation? Where is that person today and what will they testify to in a deposition? The customer in this 1 year test is the answer to all of it. Don't let anything else become too much of a distraction.

    • Official Post

    Monty,


    Even Rossi admitted today that: "Darden and his investors met the Customer in the meeting room of the offices, that is separated from the production area". I also recall from Dewey I think, IH's saying the customer lacked integrity or something.


    Strange why Darden, and according to Dewey...his expert who towards the end of the test wanted to see: "where the water was going to", were not allowed to see what Rossi was supplying the water to. Don't you think? Do you think Rossi was allowed to see this plant? I would bet he was!


    This customer went through a lot of trouble to accommodate Rossi so he could run the test, and it sounds weird for Darden to then be blocked access. Heck, he paid for half of the expenses. That would be a red flag for anyone. There could have been anything the water flowed to. Hard to believe also, if true, that Penon agreed, -as has been reported, with Rossi that Darden seeing where the water flowed was unnecessary. Would any of our experts agree with Penon?


    Sorry, so far, with what is known, in Darden's shoes I wouldn't want to pay the $89 million. Just this one issue alone would invalidate the test results in my mind. Rossi may have something, but as with all other tests to date, going back 9 years, this one joins the rest as inconclusive...at best.

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