Mat Lewan Meets Rossi in Sweden, Rossi Bidding on Factory For QuarkX Production

    Quote from JedRothwell

    No sane expert in calorimetry would accept a result with the present arrangement where the steam goes out of one pipe, comes in another, and there is no access to what is on the other side of the wall. That is why the expert sent by I.H. insisted he must see the equipment.


    Sebastian
    May 20, 2016 at 4:50 PM
    Dear Andrea:
    Why you were not able to show to Darden the Customers’ area ?
    Sebastian


    Andrea Rossi
    May 20, 2016 at 5:07 PM
    Sebastian:
    In the agreement signed between IH and the Customer it had been agreed by the parties that nobody of IH was allowed to enter in JM area and nobody of JM was allowed to enter the area in which the plant was in operation. This had been agreed upon to defend the IP of both. This agreement has been signed by IH and JM, plus also me.
    The text of the agreement has been written by IH and accepted by JM.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    I am deeply offended by the term "sock puppet"! My feelings are hurt and I do not have a squadron of fake extra handles to vote down the poster. I'm pleading for the moderators to save me from further indignation. The horror.......oh the horror.......

    Some Facts:
    1. Rossi had a key to the "customer" production side back door along with unfettered access.
    2. Penon sent draft reports to IH that Rossi was not aware of.
    3. Rossi would not allow IH experts anywhere near the 1MW system while the "test" was running.
    4. Rossi and his attorney guaranteed the "customer" was a real UK based company with real heat needs.
    5. Rossi is terrified of the day that the "ERV" becomes public.
    6. Rossi had one heat vent in the roof of his operation and that fan was broken with ZERO possibility of
    extracting enough heat from that building to keep anyone alive even at 25% power for the 1MW system.
    7. Rossi is about to flee to Sweden.
    8. Rossi already has big new money in the bank from not one but two new victims.
    9. Rossi could care less about LENR - he is all about the money.
    10. Rossi is caught, busted and finished by his own hand.
    11. Rossi's system temp & pressure data confirms that he has a negative COP for the 1 year test.
    12. Rossi has infiltrated all of the blogs with fake handles including "Vortex" and this forum.
    13. IH has 3rd party proof that the "customer" side just contained a large radiator.
    14. Rossi thinks that everyone uses "sock puppets" and fabrication as a strategy because it works so well for him.


    That's enough for now.

    Slad wrote: "Come on Jed! This kind of thing is on the Florida HVAC technicians exam!! You need at 500mm diameter flue, with a mechanical draught of 12m/s!!!"


    You are missing the point. If it takes a 500 mm diameter flue and a draft of 12 m/s to remove 1 MW of heat, then Rossi must show that flue and fan to the I.H. expert who insisted on seeing it. I.H. experts will have to examine the flue and fan, and measure the air temperature and flow in the flue with standard instruments to confirm there is 1 MW of heat being removed.


    The I.H. expert cannot simply take Rossi's word for it that the equipment exists. That is not how a professional evaluation works.


    There is no conceivable reason to turn down this request.


    500 mm = ~20 inches. This source indicates that 22 inches would indeed be enough. See: Double Wall Pipe, Common Vent Capacity:


    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/chimney-sizing-d_175.html

    • Official Post

    Some Facts:
    1. Rossi had a key to the "customer" production side back door along with unfettered access.
    2. Penon sent draft reports to IH that Rossi was not aware of.
    3. Rossi would not allow IH experts anywhere near the 1MW system while the "test" was running.
    4. Rossi and his attorney guaranteed the "customer" was a real UK based company with real heat needs.
    5. Rossi is terrified of the day that the "ERV" becomes public.
    6. Rossi had one heat vent in the roof of his operation and that fan was broken with ZERO possibility of
    extracting enough heat from that building to keep anyone alive even at 25% power for the 1MW system.
    7. Rossi is about to flee to Sweden.
    8. Rossi already has big new money in the bank from not one but two new victims.
    9. Rossi could care less about LENR - he is all about the money.
    10. Rossi is caught, busted and finished by his own hand.
    11. Rossi's system temp & pressure data confirms that he has a negative COP for the 1 year test.
    12. Rossi has infiltrated all of the blogs with fake handles including "Vortex" and this forum.
    13. IH has 3rd party proof that the "customer" side just contained a large radiator.
    14. Rossi thinks that everyone uses "sock puppets" and fabrication as a strategy because it works so well for him.


    That's enough for now.


    Those are really strong allegations, and you provide them as facts, would you care to provide some support to the allegations, I'm specially interested in numbers 2 and 7, if you can add something about those. (Edit to add: it seems the quote tool misfired in this ocassion).

    Curbina,
    Those are good points, especially 7. I can not find the link but I remember that he purchased several properties in Miami that were on the tax roles. Shame to leave it if he is on the run.


    I still can not figure out why IH agreed to what Axil posted above. That I have cut/pasted below. Thank God for lawyers and contracts eh?


    Mr. Rossi says: [
    In the agreement signed between IH and the Customer it had been agreed by the parties that nobody of IH was allowed to enter in JM area and nobody of JM was allowed to enter the area in which the plant was in operation. This had been agreed upon to defend the IP of both. This agreement has been signed by IH and JM, plus also me.
    The text of the agreement has been written by IH and accepted by JM.
    ]
    /Sorry the quote button is not working for me.

    Perhaps I should not cross post but . . . Regarding Rossi's assertion that I.H. agreed they would not be allowed to see the customer site. At Vortex I wrote:


    1. Rossi himself in the interview said that the I.H. expert insisted upon seeing the customer side. Surely you realize that this is a reasonable request, and that any expert would insist on it. Agreement or no agreement, Rossi should have acquiesced. It would have instantly proven his case. It would instantly resolve all doubts. There is no rational reason to deny this request.


    2. Whatever they agreed to, it is common sense to alter an agreement in response to a reasonable request. I cannot imagine a more reasonable request than this, or one that would better serve Rossi's own purposes -- assuming he is honest and he actually has 1 MW. Opening the customer site would have as many advantages to Rossi as to I.H. It makes no sense to enslave yourself to an agreement when it can be improved to everyone's benefit.


    3. Rossi is not a reliable source of information. You should not believe his blog or his assertions about agreements. He often lies. He lied about me, blatantly, years before I said anything particularly bad about him in public, other than the fact that he refused to let me visit and measure the temperature and flow rate.


    4. Apply some common sense. Ask yourself: what other reason would Rossi have to refuse admittance, other than the fact that there is no 1 MW machine, and no ventilation system or other means of getting rid of the waste heat? Can you propose ANY reason why an honest person would hesitate to open the door?

    Curbina - Rossi gets to learn more about number 2 through the legal proceedings. IH was aware of big problems early on through these disclosures. There are multiple torpedos ready for Rossi's battleship in this information. He gets to wait and wonder when they are going to be launched. Matters are now beyond his control. His ruse got too big and too spread out - this has spun out of his control.


    Regarding number 7, I'm very happy glad that you keyed on that. More information to come in the near future.


    Any interest in the "ERV"?

    Monty - you are not expected to recognize facts unless you are part of Club Hate. You are also not the arbiter of facts but Rossi certainly recognizes some, but not all, of this information. Please do care to comment a further - I just need a little more insight into your psyche and I'll know generally where to put you on the chart.


    Well, this is a bit naïve.


    A first question to ask is whether it was in IH interest that the test was successful in the first place. Was that really worth close to MUS$ 100? In the lawsuit, Rossi asserts that IH delayed the test and failed to find a customer and test site. I recall that Rossi filed some document that actually supports this.


    It is worth noticing that there is an underlying question of whether the technology was transferred or not. Rossi's says it was. IH denies it (never been validated). D.W here who says he is in the know says that it was not sufficiently transferred where obviously the key word is "sufficiently".


    If there was no transfer, then for obvious reasons IH had no interest in a successful test. If there was transfer then it is the transfer that is worth 100 MUS$, not the outcome of the test. They same of course apply if there was an insufficient transfer of technology.


    There is only in one scenario where the test is important, namely if IH business plan was to start manufacturing ecats, stuff them together in freight containers and sell them. I am unable to read the minds of the people at IH but a very much doubt that this was the plan. Rossi says that he was offered a sum by IH to scrap the test and this makes perfect sense to me.


    In sum, valid critic to the test is that Penon deviated from the agreed protocol or concise assertion how Rossi cheated. That Penon for long known reasons is an idiot or the agreed protocol is not good only suggest IH wanted the test to fail or pave way for questioning it.


    Does IH even have 100 MUS$?

    Dewey, I' m trying to be open minded about IH mostly I manage to do that reminding my self to ignore comments not endorsed by IH. Your comments of unsabstianted facts don't help that though. And your "divide and conquer" style does worry me.


    May be its bait for some follow up 'facts' on your side but I will ask anyway.


    Regarding the infiltration of Vortex-L. I read it daily for over a year (admittedly much less than many here) there are very few posters there especially at the moment compared to the past. I didn't notice any new posters there so I'm curious who the "fake handlers" are there. perhaps I'm wrong could you identify them for me?


    There do indeed seem to be many new posters here, on JONP and ECW. That could be understandable given the current situation. If I had been watching as long as them but not commenting before I could be tempted to post now. If there are fake postings then they could come from any direction if someone wanted to muddy the waters. But I prefer to think for the most part people are genuine even if not always correct and strong feelings take over some how.


    Stephen


    1. According to Rossi both IH and customer wanted IP secrecy, it makes sense. Your fact can swing either way, scam or real deal.
    2. Source? and if the 1MW works, how would that be a problem?
    3. Source? seems people from IH were at the site
    4. And where's the fact that disproves it?
    5. Source? this is an interpretation, he might be looking towards it, but because of the lawsuit, keeping it secret as of yet
    6. This has been extensively proved here and on ecat world that this is ridiculous, especially if the manufacturing process turns heat into chemical bonds
    7. "Flee" is an interpretation, if he has customers in Sweden, this is not flight but business relocation
    8. idk it would tend to prove that Rossi has a working tech?
    9. From which facts do you infer this interpretation?
    10. From which facts do you infer this interpretation of events which have not yet come to pass?
    11. Please share that data?
    12. Who is Rossi on this here forum?
    13. Where is this proof?
    14. It is a fact that there are sarcastic trolls obfuscating issues all over the internet, especially about economics, politics, fringe science and metaphysics. I often see them and there are a lot in LENR related discussions, but they tend to smear and belittle inventors rather than pretending guys like Keshe are saviors of the universe


    So Dewey, you've been asked for facts and present only interpretation and character assassination. Bit bizarre?

    Alan Smith wrote: "Jed- dDd you notice the two fans in the roof of the factory unit in Doral?"


    There were two fans over the reactor in Rossi's section. I.H. was not allowed access to the customer section so we do not know how many fans there were. The customer section is where you need to exhaust 1 MW of heat if the claims are true.


    The building is divided into 8 warehouses for 8 customers. Each section has a skylight and vent. See:


    https://www.google.com/maps/@2…,204m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


    This is a common arrangement for such facilities. This vent and fan might or might not be large enough. The I.H. expert would have to go into the facility, examine the vent and fan, and attach an anemometer and thermometer to measure how much heat it is removing. Such as this instrument:


    http://www.afcintl.com/anemometer-thermometer.aspx


    HVAC engineers have programmable ones that show the heat flow in BTUs.

    In response to this statement: "Rossi had a key to the "customer" production side back door along with unfettered access."


    Keieueue wrote: "According to Rossi both IH and customer wanted IP secrecy, it makes sense. Your fact can swing either way, scam or real deal."


    No, this makes no sense at all:


    Seeing the customer facility would not affect intellectual property secrecy. You cannot tell anything about the reactor internal workings or IP by measuring the heat released in the next room. You only confirm the performance of the reactor. This augments the calorimetry performed on the reactor itself. Rossi's calorimetry was abominable, so it needed to be augmented.


    I.H. did not want to keep this information secret from itself!


    The I.H. expert insisted on seeing the customer facility, but Rossi refused. Any sane expert would want to see it.


    You are dancing around the issue and inventing preposterous excuses for what Rossi did. There is no conceivable justification for keeping the I.H. people out. In any case, as Dewey reported, they have now gone in, and confirmed that there is no equipment consuming 1 MW of process heat, and no ventilation sufficient to remove that much heat. It was all fake.

    @Dewey Weaver: You didnt answer my question about how many sock puppets you are using.
    Since you are sure that Rossi is using them and for you this is a war you will certainly try to level the battlefield isn't it?
    so how many is it?
    And about your last post concerning me I have no idea what you are trying to tell me.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Seeing the customer facility would not affect intellectual property secrecy. You cannot tell anything about the reactor internal workings or IP by measuring the heat released in the next room


    Customer's IP, not IH's
    Seems according to Rossi that an arrangement was made so neither party could have a look at the other's workings and it does make sense


    Dewey reported nothing about IH seeing no equipment. This is speculation, deliberately misleading or not.


    I have no pennies in the game and I don't care if Rossi is real or not, LENR are anyway, but you people really sound like social engineers/trolls, so it tends to lend credence to Leonardo.

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