Nope. Every competent person I know who has read it agreed with me, starting with Murray and Smith.
Murray and Smith were working for IH as far as I know.
Isn't possible that their opinion was biased ?
The Playground
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I agree and think ele deserves at least the same leeway granted to Dewey. I won't say more for risk of being banned myself but his/her participation is most entertaining.
Anyone who flaunts a warning will do so at their own risk. In that context one may have preferred that I not give Ele a warning in the first place. I have no concrete reason to think that Ele has more than a distant connection to the Leonardo principals. If Ele wishes to clarify that he or she is a specific Leonardo principal, giving his or her name, I will grant him/her the same latitude as Dewey Weaver (provided the person is someone we all know about and the connection to Rossi is a strong one, and assuming the LENR Forum team are on board with this). It might also be necessary for the account name to be updated so that everyone knows who the person is.
Moved from the "believers" thread. Eric
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Jed Rothwell wrote: Am I visible? Do you accuse me of not denouncing Rossi? I can't imagine what else I might have said to denounce him, or how I might have put it more strongly.
In recent times, you have been perhaps Rossi's harshest critic. This wasn't always the case. Of course, as a result, you have gone from LENR hero to evil minion of the imaginary company IH in the eyes of the Rossi wing of the party. Telling the truth can really hurt one's standing with fanatics.
Anyway, I have no interest in debating the status of LENR with you. As I have said, I am basically agnostic on the subject. I have no axe to grind. Evidently, I am years of study away from even being entitled to have an opinion, so I will refrain from expressing one. Your view appears to be that the phenomenon is well-established and well-defined and it is only politics and craven interests that are preventing anything meaningful from happening. If so, then there is even less to discuss.
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If you are so sure that Rossi is a Criminal why FBI had not got him ? Why don't you go to FBI and denounce him.
Why IH has not denounced him ?
An acquaintance of mine who should know says that Rossi has been reported (in meticulous detail) to Florida authorities and investigations are under way. Those take time and these authorities have priorities so whether or not he will be brought to justice is as yet uncertain. As scammers go, he's sort of second rate. He can only get the more careless and negligent marks.
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If you are so sure that Rossi is a Criminal why FBI had not got him ?
You would have to ask the FBI.
Why don't you go to FBI and denounce him.
As far as I know, they do not go after 2-bit frauds like him. Anyway, I do not have the evidence. It was revealed in the lawsuit docket.
Why IH has not denounced him ?
They did! First they denounced him politely with their 2016 statement. Then in the lawsuit they denounced him in their depositions. So did Murray and Smith in their expert witness depositions.
However, no one has denounced Rossi more severely than Rossi himself, in the Penon report and in his depositions. He admits the report is garbage when he came up with the invisible heat exchanger. That was after he tried making people believe that a few grams of material can absorb 1 MW of heat for a year. I guess he decided even his acolytes on Planet Rossi would find that hard to believe.
He admitted that he himself is a liar and a fraud who was pretending to have conversations with himself in his role in the imaginary companies. He never even tried to respond to the expert witness, or answer their questions.
Rossi himself provided all the evidence you need to see that he is a fraud.
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Evidently, I am years of study away from even being entitled to have an opinion, so I will refrain from expressing one.
No, you are an hour or two away from being entitled to an opinion. Let me explain the rule one more time:
FIRST you read a paper.
THEN you talk about it.
It isn't complicated! You cannot have an opinion about a paper that you have not read, about which you know nothing.
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And have I talked about or expressed an opinion about a paper that I haven't read? News to me.
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Murray and Smith were working for IH as far as I know.
Isn't possible that their opinion was biased ?
It was possible, but in my opinion they were not biased. If anything, Murray was too gentle with Rossi, and he did not point out the faults as strongly as he should have.
I am not working for I.H. and I arrived at my opinion independently. When I formed that opinion, it was based solely on Rossi's data in the Penon report. Because I had no other information. I did not know that I.H. had already paid him $11 million, or that he was pretending to have conversations with other people who turned out to be himself, or that he was pretending to have a connection to Johnson Matthey (which he called "Johnson Matthew").
Other people who read the Penon report formed radically different opinions, to such an extent that I find mind-boggling. For example, when I saw that the pressure was listed as 0.0 bar. I thought:
"That's a mistake, or someone erased that column in the spreadsheet. Anyway, without pressure we have no clue whether there was steam or hot water. Pressure of 4 psi would preclude steam at these temperatures."
Other people saw the 0.0 bar and assumed it must be true. That was one of the most surprising delusions I have encountered in the history of cold fusion. These people began by assuming that is barG, an assumption for which there is no evidence. Rossi never said that is what it means. (Murray was too polite in assuming that.) 0.0 barG is almost as absurd as 0.0 bar (a vacuum), and equally impossible, as Smith pointed out. Anyway, these people went to great lengths inventing imaginary scenarios that would allow 0.0 barG. Rossi himself made no effort to justify that ridiculous number. He let his supporters come up with excuses. He used the same tactic later, when he let his supporters come up with imaginary "endothermic" materials that absorb 1 MW of heat for a year. This dynamic of deception feeding delusion, which in turn feeds more delusion, has been common throughout history. But I have never seen it close up in what is supposed to be technical discussion.
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And have I talked about or expressed an opinion about a paper that I haven't read? News to me.
Sorry, I confused you with "Sherlock Holmes," who made many unfounded assertions about the research projects at Mitsubishi and Toyota. I think it is unlikely he knows anything about these projects.
I find it a little difficult to keep track of anonymous people who select ridiculous names for themselves. Sorry about that.
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No problem. At least you managed to get one little dig in on your apology reply. I am pseudonymous, not anonymous. I don't care to have my real name associated with a community many of whose most visible participants are crackpots who sound like they want to visit skeptics' houses carrying torches and pitchforks.
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No problem. At least you managed to get one little dig in on your apology reply. I am pseudonymous, not anonymous. I don't care to have my real name associated with a community many of whose most visible participants are crackpots who sound like they want to visit skeptics' houses carrying torches and pitchforks.
Dirty tricks, buddy. The strong words & character assassinations mostly come from the sceptics / anti-Rossi posters. Ask the mods to query this site on words like "delusional", "confused", "fraud", "liar", "criminal", etc. I think i know what kind of posters win that count. Also, everything fine and dandy on ECW.
Cheers,
JB
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Oh yes, everything is fine and dandy on ECW - as long as they keep taking their meds.
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I don't care to have my real name associated with a community many of whose most visible participants are crackpots who sound like they want to visit skeptics' houses carrying torches and pitchforks.
I guess that is understandable. In the internet era with things like doxxing and swatting people, you should be careful. However, in the actual history of cold fusion, as far as I know, the only effective attacks and physical encounters have been in the other direction. That is, opponents of cold fusion reportedly trashed experiments and dumped manure on the equipment. That is what a long-dead professor told me. I cannot confirm it.
Attacks against reputations are well documented and they were quite effective. Robert Park bragged to me that he and his allies in various government agencies would "destroy" cold fusion, and "root out" anyone who believes it, or even talks about it. That is what he did. I knew the people he attacked. He and others did this mainly by publishing attacks in the mass media. Nowadays, others do it anonymously in Wikipedia using fake names. (That is one of the reasons I dislike such names.) These mass media attacks were effective. When the Washington Post says professors are criminals and lunatics, those professors get into the kind of trouble you don't get out of. It isn't as if the university convenes a board to look into it, or weighs the evidence. They are not looking to challenge the DoE, from whence their funding flows. They just throw the professor out on a trumped-up charge unrelated to cold fusion. Or, if they can't do that, they cut funding, or reassign distinguished professors to menial jobs, ban them from the labs, and take away their telephones. They fired the ones they could, and threatened others with deportation or fake investigations into alleged crimes. Pons was driven out the country and he eventually renounced his U.S. citizenship.
I uploaded original source documents describing this sordid history. It is much worse than I am able to show at present. Beaudette describes some of it in his book, but there is lots more.
That's academic politics for you. When you threaten the budgets of something like the DoE plasma fusion projects, they destroy you. It is a pocketbook issue. It has nothing to do with science per se. Scientists care about money and status first. Things like truth and progress are somewhere far down the list of their concerns, around item 50 or 60 I guess, way below parking space assignments in the lab parking lot. As the late Stan Szpak put it, scientists believe whatever you pay them to believe.
If ever cold fusion escapes from the ghetto of academic science, and it begins to challenge the fossil fuel industry, I hope the industry will ignore it until it is too late to stop. But at some point they will attack it with hundreds of millions of dollars, more effectively than Robert Park and his merry band of bureaucrats were able to do. Cold fusion may not survive that attack.
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Oh yes, everything is fine and dandy on ECW - as long as they keep taking their meds.
Haha..Indeed, which reminds me..No, even JedRothwell agrees with me...the skeptics are the most dangerous ones.
Cheers,
JB -
I have no concerns about the rational followers of LENR (i.e. those who recognize Rossi as a fraud.) It is the Planet Rossi demographic that is alarming.
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It is the Planet Rossi demographic that is alarming.
Oh come now. Other than Rossi himself, they are harmless. The only thing you have to fear from Rossi is fraud. Just don't invest any money with him and you will be safe.
On the other hand, he has a terrible temper, he yells and carries on, and he threw things at the people from NASA. Typical primate behavior. But I have not heard he actually assaulted anyone. A bunco squad detective once told me that professional con-men are never dangerous, even when they pretend to be. They steal by deception, not violence.
As I said before, I would enjoy a frisson of schadenfreude if Rossi were to persuade his supporters to contribute to a "go fund me" account. It would serve them right. I suspect that even the most vociferous among them would hesitate to contribute, say, $1,000.
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So where are the better results?
@IO: Just read the Lipinski papers (patents).. they are way ahead of the other bunch except Mills and Klimovs latest work...
But why should they tell you?
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"Other than Rossi himself, they are harmless."
Jed, you are probably right about that. If they mustered up an angry mob, I could just give them directions to the nearest cliff, sign them "Warm regards, A.R." and they would no longer be a threat.
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Also the attacks are quite generic and in the form "As is well known and evident Rossi/Penon is/are the fraudolent." But without any real proof.
Well, how about Fabiani reporting to the USPTO that a small module from the Doral plant was climatizing the laboratory (the point of sale)?
And, how are those IR integrations you promised us months ago coming along?
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An acquaintance of mine who should know says that Rossi has been reported (in meticulous detail) to Florida authorities and investigations are under way.
I hope that is true.
I am only speculating here, but perhaps I.H. knows about this, and that is why they reached a settlement. Perhaps they decided the police can handle this situation better than they can.
