The Playground

    Quote from Alan Fletcher

    I think that immunity from having had covid is better than the vaccine (because of its multi-protein protection, wheras the vaccine is targeted to the spike, which mutates more).

    I read some comments by experts about omicron recently. They said that in some ways the vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity. I do not understand the technical reasons. Many experts say the combination of natural and vaccines offers the best protection:


    COVID-19 vaccines more protective than ‘natural’ immunity
    A new study concludes that a COVID-19 mRNA vaccine is around five times more effective at preventing hospitalization than a previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.
    www.medicalnewstoday.com


    QUOTE:


    Among the 6,328 people who were fully vaccinated, 324 (or 5.1%) had a positive COVID-19 PCR test. Among the 1,020 who were unvaccinated and who had previously had the infection, 89 (or 8.7%) had a positive COVID-19 PCR test.


    According to the study authors, “These findings suggest that among hospitalized adults with COVID-19-like illness whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, vaccine-induced immunity was more protective than infection-induced immunity against laboratory-confirmed COVID-19.”


    [They discussed an Israeli study that reached the opposite conclusion.]


    ". . . Natural infection plus vaccination is better than natural infection alone.”




    There are multiple levels to the immune system, and different mechanisms in B lymphocytes and T lymphocytes, as I expect readers here know. Apparently the vaccines are better at bolstering some of mechanisms, and natural immunity is better at boosting others. The details are over my head.

    Another direction. If we know that the spike protein is most likely the reason why the virus cause the cyt storm, then

    actually the spike based vaccination would more effectively put a strong evolutionary pressure to reduce the bad side

    effects (by chance as the virus doesn't care if the host will get a cyt storm or not). There are initial indications that

    Omikron will be milder but spreads more violently. Maybe too early to tell, South Africa has a pretty young population.

    In that case it will be best to stop boostering after the current booster.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Among the 6,328 people who were fully vaccinated, 324 (or 5.1%) had a positive COVID-19 PCR test. Among the 1,020 who were unvaccinated and who had previously had the infection, 89 (or 8.7%) had a positive COVID-19 PCR test.

    This is CDC selected and compiled data. The same people that every week change the standards to fit big pharma marketing.


    At least they confess::

    The findings in this report are subject to at least seven limitations. First, although this analysis was designed to compare two

    groups with different sources of immunity, patients might have been misclassified. If SARS-CoV-2 testing occurred outside of

    network partners’ medical facilities or if vaccinated persons are less likely to seek testing, some positive SARS-CoV-2 test

    results might have been missed and thus some patients classified as vaccinated and previously uninfected might also have been infected. In addition, despite the high specificity of COVID-19 vaccination status from these data sources, misclassification is possible. Second, the a OR could not be further stratified by time since infection or vaccination because of sparse data and

    limited ability to control for residual confounding that could be magnified within shorter intervals


    In fact as of today > 50% of all western people already had contact with SARS COV-19. Of course with wrong CT cycles you get tons of fake positives that are classified the wrong way. False positive rate is at least 50%.


    But also CDC had to confirm nobody with a former infection died so far. But thousand with double vaxx... So the conclusion should not be PCR+ entering a hospital. But the real outcome of hospitalization.

    Quote from stefan

    It is more interesting to look at the Hospitalisations,

    There was also a sharp downturn before. Its just few cases above the 10th Nov. peek. Typically in Winter V-D3 goes low what fuels infections. We had a peek in September. Now we have 4x cases and are still below the peek. So its all about the dynamics.


    But Switzerland at 00:00 closed the boarder for all foreigners... Omicron is already here... The rulers of our country are all vaccinated. They show obviously all the same moronic behavior like some vaccinated here do too...


    Seems like spike based vaccine damaged your brain...

    All Nordic countries had a steep raise in cases what shows that vaccines play no role for infection. There is also no relation to omicron The Baltic states are already in a decline and most others like Poland, Slovakia, Germany, Denmark are close to the peek.


    Northern stated = missing V-D3 plus more people staying indoors.


    CoV-19 is a pandemic of the idiots not taking enough V-D3 and zinc.


    In Austria the fascists kill people by stopping import of Ivermectin. With Ivermectin no overdosing is possible. At least for the last 50 years no known case does exist! But invented fake news always reoccur.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    There is no evidence from any data so far that being vaccinated reduces the bodies ability to make a broader immune response after (subsequent) infection. This is an idee fixe in the minds of antivaxxers without evidence.

    Do you think that those crazy anti-vaxers just make it up out of thin air?


    Maybe instead they get it from actual studies as described here:

    Antibodies from earlier exposures affect response to new flu strains
    Research highlights role of immunological imprinting -- or how the immune system fights the flu after previous exposure to the virus via infections or…
    www.sciencedaily.com


    The researchers examined the composition and dynamics of an individual donor's antibody repertoire over a five-year period during which the donor had been infected or vaccinated with influenza multiple times. The study suggests our immune systems are "imprinted" by antibodies that had been elicited in response to influenza strains encountered previously in life.


    "Each vaccination still elicits new antibodies that are highly specific to the new strains, but these new antibodies decay over time, returning to the antibody repertoire that already existed before the vaccination," said Jiwon Lee, a postdoctoral fellow in Georgiou's Laboratory of Protein Therapeutics and Applied Immunology who led the study.


    The above is a variation on the recently mentioned theme of original antigenic sin.

    With the devastating prospect of Omicron reaching our shores and killing us all, here is further enticement - in song form - for those crazy anti-vaxers to get vaccinated :


    External Content twitter.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    Rumours are swirling that the new variant in France will be called Omacron.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    In Austria the fascists kill people by stopping import of Ivermectin. With Ivermectin no overdosing is possible. At least for the last 50 years no known case does exist! But invented fake news always reoccur.

    Those Austrian right-wingers are up to no good again! This time for creating the demand for the Ivermectin/de-worming pill the government authorities are now having to confiscate...for the foolish peoples own good of course.

    Alleged Covid agent: Much smuggled ivermectin confiscated in Austria | tellerreport.com
    For many, the remedy against intestinal worms is also considered a Covid drug - the demand has therefore increased massively. But the dangers are often…
    www.tellerreport.com


    "In Austria, customs have confiscated 24,169 smuggled tablets of the drug ivermectin since the beginning of the year.

    The remedy against the infestation of parasites such as intestinal worms is viewed by some, against the advice of the manufacturer and medical organizations, as a suitable drug for Covid disease.


    In Austria it became known that the head of the right-wing FPÖ party, Herbert Kickl, campaigned for a Covid treatment with ivermectin.


    Finance Minister Gernot Blümel (ÖVP) announced on Sunday that there was an "explosive increase" in the deworming tablets ordered to Austria."

    Vaccine Mandate Suspended in California


    Vaccine Mandate Suspended in California
    In an interesting twist in California, a federal judge has issued a stay against vaccine mandates for all prison workers. The twist here is that Governor
    trialsitenews.com


    In an interesting twist in California, a federal judge has issued a stay against vaccine mandates for all prison workers. The twist here is that Governor Gavin Newsome, who has favored vaccine mandates in his state, opposed the mandate for California prison workers. The reason, according to an NBC News report, is that forcing prison employees to be vaccinated may cause a shortage of workers.


    According to the NBC article, more than 50,000 prisoners in the California system have contracted covid and at least 242 prisoners have died from coronavirus. The mandate was supposed to take effect on January 12th.


    The ruling was handed down by the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals. The judge, who issued the stay, did so on the recommendation of a court-appointed receiver who had been chosen to manage the health care system of the state’s prisons. In 2005 a federal judge ruled that California had failed to provide “adequate medical care to prisoners.”


    Don Specter, who is the director of the Prison Law Office, said that the court’s ruling “puts both the prison staff and the incarcerated population at greater risk of infection,” according to an article in US News and World Report. California Correctional Peace Officers Association, the prison employees’ union in the state, predicted staff shortages if the mandate were put into place. Governor Newsome agreed, which makes him unique among politicians.


    TrialSiteNews has done several stories regarding vaccine mandates for municipal workers, specifically in New York City and in Chicago. In New York, Governor Kathy Hochul sided with state workers rather than Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York. In Chicago, the vaccine mandate for police was suspended by a judge. It appears in both instances public safety was the priority over political overreach.


    Apparently, Governor Gavin Newsome feels the same.

    Tests suggest Regeneron antibody treatment for COVID loses effectiveness against omicron variant: WSJ


    Tests suggest Regeneron antibody treatment for COVID loses effectiveness against omicron variant: WSJ
    Early tests suggest that the COVID-19 antibody treatment developed by Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Inc.undefinedloses effectiveness against the omicron variant...
    www.marketwatch.com


    Early tests suggest that the COVID-19 antibody treatment developed by Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Inc. REGN loses effectiveness against the omicron variant of the coronavirus that causes COVID, but the full impact will only be known in the coming weeks after further testing, the company's president and chief scientific officer George Yancopoulos told the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. Evercore analysts had raised that issue in a note to clients on Friday. Omicron is the variant from South Africa that was classified a 'variant of concern' by the World Health Organization on Friday, that has led several countries to impose restrictions on travel from there and neighboring countries. Separate testing of the antibody developed by Eli Lilly & Co. LLY suggests it too is less effective against omicron. Researchers say that some antibody therapies are likely to be vulnerable to omicron because it contains mutations to the spike protein that the Regeneron and Lilly drugs target, while other drugs should hold up well because they attack elements of the virus unchanged in the variant. Yancopoulos said the company is already working on alternative antibodies that should hold up well against the variant. "What we have to admit is, in the course of the past six days, our urgency has increased," Dr. Yancopoulos said in an interview. "What started out as a backup plan has now been made a lot more urgent." Regeneron shares were down 2.7% premarket, but have gained 35% in the year to date, while the S&P 500 SPX has gained 24%.

    I agree Thomas but those trials will never come as it's not in the best interest of big pharma. It has the potential to put them out of business.

    You may be right but check this out. Japanese researchers have seen a mutation at nsp14, that protein proof reads viral coding for replication. The same mutation is front and center in omicron and so far omicrom looks very mild


    https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/5/751/pdf

    That is not evidence of ADE problems? It is just saying that vaccinations and (infection-induced immunity) don't last forever. Which everyone (except antivaxxers??) knows anyway.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    With Ivermectin no overdosing is possible.

    The levels needed (from lab results) for COVID are some 20X higher than those needed for de-worming.


    Dosing at those levels certainly would cause problems though I don't know anyone foolish enough to do it except for a few antivaxxers.


    From long before COVID, high dose issues estimated from chickens 9you don't want to subject people to this):


    Clinical signs of ivermectin toxicity and the efficacy of antigabaergic convulsants as antidotes for ivermectin poisoning in epileptic chickens - PubMed
    The clinical signs of ivermectin toxicity were determined in 6 groups of 10 epileptic and 8 non-epileptic chickens for 72 h after dosing with sc injections of…
    pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

    The clinical signs of ivermectin toxicity were determined in 6 groups of 10 epileptic and 8 non-epileptic chickens for 72 h after dosing with sc injections of 5.0, 7.5, 10.0, 12.5 or 15.0 mg ivermectin/kg bw. At the 5.0 mg/kg dose, mild diarrhea developed 4 h post-dosing and lasted until the end of the 72-h monitoring period. With higher doses of ivermectin body weight, egg production and feed and water consumption were markedly reduced. Severe diarrhea, mydriasis, bradypnea, ataxia, sedation, coma and death occurred with the highest dose of ivermectin. No differences in the signs of ivermectin toxicity were observed between epileptic and non-epileptic chickens. To assess the efficacy of the antiGABAergic convulsants, methyl-beta carboline-carboxylate (beta-CCM), picrotoxin and pentylenetetrazol (PTZ), as antidotes for ivermectin toxicity, 8 epileptic and 6 non-epileptic chickens/treatment group were given dosages of each convulsant which previously induced convulsions in 50% (ED50) and again in 100% (ED100) of treated chickens. These convulsants were given 6 h after dosing with 15.0 mg ivermectin/kg. The ED100 dosages of picrotoxin and PTZ alleviated mydriasis and sedation, but did not reduce the diarrhea. The ED50 dose convulsants were not effective in reducing or alleviating ivermectin toxicity, nor was alleviation of any sign of ivermectin toxicity obtained with any dosage of beta-CCM. Although the dosages of these antiGABAergic convulsants used normally produced convulsions in epileptic and non-epileptic chickens, no convulsions were observed in chickens with ivermectin toxicity.


    And for low-dose adverse events in 2018:


    Serious Neurological Adverse Events after Ivermectin—Do They Occur beyond the Indication of Onchocerciasis?
    Serious neurological adverse events have been reported from large scale community-based ivermectin treatment campaigns against Onchocerciasis volvulus in…
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


    Serious neurological adverse events have been reported from large scale community-based ivermectin treatment campaigns against Onchocerciasis volvulus in Africa. The mechanism of these events has been debated in the literature, largely focusing on the role of concomitant infection with Loa loa versus the presence of mdr-1 gene variants in humans allowing ivermectin penetration into the central nervous system. A case series of serious neurological adverse events occurring with the use of ivermectin outside of the onchocerciasis indication has been identified in VigiBase, an international database of suspected adverse drug reactions. Forty-eight cases have been reported from multiple countries in which ivermectin has been prescribed for multiple indications; clinical review excluded 20 cases with more probable explanations or other exclusion criteria. Within the remaining 28 cases, there is supportive evidence for a causative role of ivermectin including presence of the drug in brain tissue in one case and recurrence of symptoms on repeated exposure in three cases. This series suggests that serious neurological adverse events observed with the use of ivermectin in the treatment of onchocerciasis may not be entirely explained by concomitant high burden loiasis infections. By comparison with the extensive post marketing experience with ivermectin in the successful treatment of parasitic infections, the number of reported cases suggests that such events are likely rare. However, elucidation of individual-level risk factors could contribute to therapeutic decisions that can minimize harms.



    Quote from Fm1

    those trials will never come as it's not in the best interest of big pharma.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    All it needs is for somone to pay a lot of money for them.


    You can't expect private companies to spend money on thigs that have no return for them.


    The US vitamin industry revenue is about $30 billion per year. Globally its $300B - about 25% of what the pharmaceutical industry makes. They could easily afford to run trials if they wanted.


    But they don't want to run trials, as they understand that despite the majority of US citizens taking supplements, overall health has not improved.


    Still, the vast majority (>80%) of people blindly trust that vitamins will help them, despite there being very little evidence.


    Why would the vitamin industry risk killing off that golden goose?

Subscribe to our newsletter

It's sent once a month, you can unsubscribe at anytime!

View archive of previous newsletters

* indicates required

Your email address will be used to send you email newsletters only. See our Privacy Policy for more information.

Our Partners

Supporting researchers for over 20 years
Want to Advertise or Sponsor LENR Forum?
CLICK HERE to contact us.