The Playground

    Quote from Calliban

    As for what their opinions happen to be, I don't think you are in a position to be able to speak for all of them, or even tell me what percentage think one way or another. My GP told me quite bluntly at the height of this so called corona virus crisis, that mortality rates in our town were about the same as they had been for years. He was critical of the lock downs, because he believed that the isolation and forced changes would create an unprecedented mental health crisis. He was certainly right about that. I strongly suspect that lock downs had negative public health benefits overall. Many people put on weight, many developed mental health problems and the disruption to social life was extreme. Yet anyone questioning the lock downs at the time was considered to be an anarchist, a fascist, a scaremongering terrorist, etc.

    You are I think forgetting that in matters of health we do not count all deaths equally. There is a proper argument about whether to lock down or not is best. You have not put the factors here into any balance - so until you attempt this I won't comment much. My (not very strong) view is that the type of disruption seen in Italy - where health services collapse - is overall worse than lockdown, but I agree it is arguable, and probably unknowable given that the future course of epidemics has that nasty exponential characteristic.


    Governments have more immediate pressures. politically, arguments about what might be pale to nothing compared with the outcry for action when inaction leads to a health service being overwhelmed. That was, at the time likely given best available evidence, without lockdown,


    Long-term harm? Yes - but we allow many things in society that have proven large long-term harm. For example, massive marketing of unhealthy foods, and a food production system that means those needing to eat cheaply must eat poorly. That kills many more people, and has bad effects on children. There are many other examples where we prioritise prevention of directly caused deaths over things that in a whole population are statistically certain to lead to poorer health outcomes.


    I am not saying that I like this - I accept it is not easy to change the politics in a democratic country.


    THH

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    You might think the antivaxxers would like this as reducing availability of vaccine for use in humans?


    I guess that supposes rational thought, rather than what Freud called primary process thinking.

    'Anti-Vaxxer' is the name given to anyone that isn't prepared to take on faith the medical propaganda handed down by their 'betters' in the political establishment. Given that this designation is handed out to anyone that refuses to prolate themselves, I think we can assume it is a coverall term for people who, in reality, have a lot of different opinions, outlooks and backgrounds, whose only common uniting factor is that they don't swallow official BS hook line and sinker. In much the same way, if you fail to take on faith the official lines on immigration, you are 'a fascist or racist'. If you don't want drag Queens playing women's football or sharing toilets with your daughters, then you are a 'homophobe'. These labels are intended to slur and intimidate anyone that refuses to bow before officialdom.


    I don't known who it is that objects to animal vaccinations or what their reasons are. For all I know, this article is propaganda and what they are talking about never happened. But the arrogance of sluring people and grouping them because they don't tow the party line, is a good example of why many people hate the political left.

    Quote from Calliban

    I don't think that's remotely true.

    As Neil deGrasse Tyson put it, "The good thing about Science is that it's true, whether or not you believe in it." Your opinion does not count. What counts is what is reported by the scientists doing these things.

    Quote from Calliban

    And I don't think you are the position to know half the things you claim to be true.

    Anyone who reads the New York Times or the Scientific American knows these claims are true. They are not my claims. They are from various scientific journals, CDC papers, and the computer trade literature.


    You seem to put yourself at odds with experts. You think you know more about electric power generation than the people who run power companies. You assure us that wind and solar power claims are not real, and that I am tying myself in knots trying to justify them. As I said, I am not the one tying myself in knots. I am telling you what the Energy Information Agency (EIA) says. Their info comes from industry sources. I showed you that power companies are building 21.5 GW of solar generation this year, which is 46% of new capacity. Do you really, honestly, truly believe that the companies doing this do not understand physics?!? They cannot do a cost-benefit analysis? Do you think you know better than they do? If so, you suffer from the Dunning Kruger effect.



    I have criticized the Georgia Power execs for making a stupid mistake, spending $30 billion on the Vogtle reactor. $16 billion over budget. But of course I realize they know far more than I do! They consulted with the best experts in the world, and they did detailed analyses, and they worked with the Westinghouse engineers, who are the best. I think they were wrong to keep going after several years and $10 billion was spent with little progress. That was a sunk cost fallacy. But no one can predict the outcome of such a difficult project. They are probably doing the best job anyone can. It turns out that modern 1 GW fission reactors are too difficult to make. The 1970s designs don't meet modern safety demands, as we saw in Fukushima. It is a terrible shame.

    THH, I mostly agree. The situation is complicated. Governments are under pressure to do something that at least looks like it will help. They often act with imperfect information as well. I accept that. It don't expect people to be perfect in their actions or judgement. And I know there are facts that I'm not aware of and don't understand. I just find it absurd that any keyboard warrior on this site can display the hubris to insist they know what is the right decision and what is not. I don't have the answer. At least I have the humility to say so. Some on this site would never have the humility to admit that they don't know.

    "As Neil deGrasse Tyson put it, "The good thing about Science is that it's true, whether or not you believe in it." Your opinion does not count. What counts is what is reported by the scientists doing these things."


    Which scientists exactly? I agree, my opinion doesn't count. I don't have all the answers. Neither do you. The difference between you and I, is that I least have enough introspection to admit that.

    Quote from Calliban

    'Anti-Vaxxer' is the name given to anyone that isn't prepared to take on faith the medical propaganda handed down by their 'betters' in the political establishment. Given that this designation is handed out to anyone that refuses to prolate themselves, I think we can assume it is a coverall term for people who, in reality, have a lot of different opinions, outlooks and backgrounds, whose only common uniting factor is that they don't swallow official BS hook line and sinker. In much the same way, if you fail to take on faith the official lines on immigration, you are 'a fascist or racist'. If you don't want drag Queens playing women's football or sharing toilets with your daughters, then you are a 'homophobe'. These labels are intended to slur and intimidate anyone that refuses to bow before officialdom.


    I don't known who it is that objects to animal vaccinations or what their reasons are. For all I know, this article is propaganda and what they are talking about never happened. But the arrogance of sluring people and grouping them because they don't tow the party line, is a good example of why many people hate the political left.

    I have become jaded on this thread.


    You are right in theory: every view can be accorded the same respect and considered on merits. Somone with views that vaccines are specially dangerous, based on poor and often fraudulent science (Andrew Wakefield the classic example) does not have to be grouped with all others having similar views.


    Why the commonality? 99% of such opinion circulates on the internet, which as you know is an echo chamber for those with like-minded views based on shared experience (typically politics of one sort or another). The memes - and believe me on this thread I have spent 12 months of so dissecting them, are repetitive, and the signature of poorly referenced arguments, or arguments with bad maths (which I'm competent personally to detect) is notable.


    Interestingly; associating those specific scientific view with political left or right is a new thing - and an interesting sociological study no doubt.


    THH

    Quote from Calliban

    In much the same way, if you fail to take on faith the official lines on immigration, you are 'a fascist or racist'. If you don't want drag Queens playing women's football or sharing toilets with your daughters, then you are a 'homophobe'. These labels are intended to slur and intimidate anyone that refuses to bow before officialdom.

    I realise the US has specific problems with politicisation of all discourse.


    I think you are now guilty of generalisation - as (with some merit) you accused me above.


    Sure, homophobe, fascist, racist are terms that have all been used as political catch-alls.


    I'm not sure about fascist - but racism and homophobia are very well understood and natural human traits. Homophobia mostly from the fears of males (male fears related to sexuality are very common and well documented). Racism because skin color is a very strong and visible differentiator and humans (again this is well documented) very easily form in-groups, out-groups and react with hostility to the out-group members.


    How much these two traits affect society now - well that is like how long is a bit of string and I'd only make teh (non-contentious in the UK) point that the US seems still very hung up on racism - perhaps understandably given the relatively recent history of race-linked slavery there.


    Of course the modern slavery (related to sexual trafficking) we have now is not strongly black-white race linked and every bit as horrible - though in its horrible forms not quite as socially embedded as slavery was historically in the US.


    THH

    Quote from Calliban

    Yet anyone questioning the lock downs at the time was considered to be an anarchist, a fascist, a scaremongering terrorist, etc. Many were actually arrested. Pretty much the same thing happens to anyone questioning the efficacy of vaccines now.

    You should simply ignore our free mason trolls that always claim to see anti vaxxers where there are none.

    It's all about brainless rhetoric to convince the dumb that an experimental "gene therapy" is a vaccine.

    It's also all about a FM/R/F/B terror network that only wants to suck out as much money as possible from people that have no choice.


    USA is no longer a free country. It's a jail for dumb & fat people that only believe to be free...


    Here people now confess that lock downs had no value at all and that it was an over reaction. But this will take an other 50 years in USA to do the same/understand as the press works the same as in Russia just promoting mafia FUD.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    $16 billion over budget. But of course I realize they know far more than I do! They consulted with the best experts in the world, and they did detailed analyses, and they worked with the Westinghouse engineers, who are the best. I think they were wrong to keep going after several years and $10 billion was spent with little progress. That was a sunk cost fallacy. But no one can predict the outcome of such a difficult project.

    This - large cost overrun - very frequently happens to projects run by the free mason mafia. Look at Germany air field Berlin or Hamburg Philharmonic or Stuttgart train station.

    Free mason also regularly burn down churches (most recent Notre Dame Praris) to generate new work.

    Huxley is a Russian asset filling this thread with misinformation. Adam Schiff has the evidence

    U.S. Seroprevalence Study Proves COVID-19 Not 10-Times More Deadly than Flu


    U.S. Seroprevalence Study Proves COVID-19 Not 10-Times More Deadly than Flu
    www.trialsitenews.com


    On March 11, 2020, Anthony S. Fauci testified before U.S. Congress that the coronavirus from Wuhan, China was ten-times more deadly than the flu: Public Health Lessons Learned From Biases in Coronavirus Mortality Overestimation. Dr. Fauci appeared to arrive at his dire prediction by comparing a 1% case fatality rate of coronavirus with a 0.1% infection fatality rate of influenza. Because infections include reported cases as well as asymptomatic and mild to moderate infections that are not reported, there are usually many more infections than cases, and so the infection fatality rate is usually much lower than the case fatality rate. Furthermore, comparing the infection fatality rate of one infectious disease with the case fatality rate of another infectious disease, as Fauci did, makes no sense! Over two years later, evidence from a U.S. seroprevalence study finally proves that Fauci got his prediction wrong...terribly wrong! Seroprevalence of Infection-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies — United States, September 2021–February 2022 | MMWR (cdc.gov).


    The released study measures antibodies in a representative sample of the U.S population to estimate how many people have been infected with COVID-19. The study, conducted between September 2021 and February 2022, reported an infection rate from the omicron variant, which was as high as approximately 58%. With a U.S. population of 332,403,650, a COVID-19 infection rate of 58% involves 192,794,117 infected people.


    As of April 26, 2022, there have been 1,018,727 U.S. COVID-19 deaths during the two-year pandemic: United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer. Divide this in half to roughly approximate one influenza season, which averages about 509,363.5 deaths. The COVID-19 infection fatality rate is therefore 0.26% (509,363.5 deaths / 192,794,117 infections). This is still about twice as high as influenza (0.1%), but 0.26% could be an overestimation accounted for by the inclusion of deaths with COVID-19 along with deaths from COVID-19.


    Nevertheless, even with this very rough approximation, and an inflated COVID-19 death count, results of this U.S. seroprevalence study prove that COVID-19 is nowhere near 10-times more deadly than the flu, as originally claimed by public health authorities like Dr. Fauci. Furthermore, with a proper adjustment of death counts, COVID-19 may still turnout to be no more lethal than what Fauci described as "a severe seasonal influenza." Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted | NEJM.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Is this a joke, if not I'll ask the moderators to step in? (Perhaps they are Russian assets too?)


    Who is Adam Schiff?

    Adam Schiff chairman of the Senate oversite committee on intelligence. Something he lacks. You talk of US politics but know little about it. Yes hux it's a joke just as Adam, I have evidence of trump being a Russian asset, Schiff is a joke and so is Russian misinformation. Calm down cowboy and have a nice cup of tea.

    Maybe I should cry to the mods about you calling me an anti vaxer . Dish it out hux but you can't take it. From now on I'll just reply Russian asset to your posts

    Quote from Fm1

    Adam Schiff chairman of the Senate oversite committee on intelligence. Something he lacks. You talk of US politics but know little about it. Yes hux it's a joke just as Adam, I have evidence of trump being a Russian asset, Schiff is a joke and so is Russian misinformation. Calm down cowboy and have a nice cup of tea.

    Maybe I should cry to the mods about you calling me an anti vaxer . Dish it out hux but you can't take it. From now on I'll just reply Russian asset to your posts

    Trump is too narcissistic to be an asset to anyone. You could never know what he would do.


    Sure, look at the context where I called you an antivaxxer you will find there were specific reasons. You keep on posting this one-sided proven false stuff from TSN. You know they are journalists with an agenda and no ability to scrutinise science from what has previously been posted here about their stuff.


    As for Russian asset - glad you think I'm an asset - I do too. But I've no idea what Russian disinformation has to do with antivaxxers - except Putin spread a rumour Western vaccines were not reliable and then it bit him when no-one in Russia was prepared to take the Russian vaccine!


    Putin is not my favourite person at the moment - for reasons any European would be very much aware of.

    Bombshell: U.S. General Accounting Office Finds Evidence of Political Interference Occurring at CDC & FDA During COVID-19


    Bombshell: U.S. General Accounting Office Finds Evidence of Political Interference Occurring at CDC & FDA During COVID-19
    www.trialsitenews.com


    The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) ‘altered’ COVID-19 guidance in response to political pressure and in fact, reports are out that the one-time trustworthy apex federal health agencies ‘suppressed’ findings associated with SARS-CoV-2 in a new bombshell report associated with investigators from the Government Accountability Office (GAO). Apparently, GAO investigators probed for such actions conducting a series of interviews with managers and higher-up officials employed with the agencies. Now, evidence mounts for what TrialSite has been reporting on for a couple of years now: ‘political interference’ associated with scientific reports and possibly even tampered with study results to skew or bias the results.


    The 37-page GAO report issued a warning that these American federal agencies don’t have any mechanism to stop or even report whistleblower allegations involving political interference. The U.S. government inspectors discovered in interviews with whistleblowers that they didn’t raise any concern due to fear of retaliation. Additionally, because there was no way to raise such concerns systematically and objectively, they kept quiet.


    Although TrialSite has reported over 40% of the FDA’s revenues derive from pharmaceutical fees, they apparently have no way to address political interference in scientific decision-making. This seems very odd to us here at TrialSite. For example, TrialSite reported on very overt and seemingly unacceptable behavior involving social media attacks on the repurposed drug ivermectin. Top officials at the FDA were involved in what appeared to look like a disinformation campaign backed possibly by industry and the Biden administration. To be fair, TrialSite called out politicization problems associated with the Trump administration and both the FDA and CDC.


    The NIH went on the record that they do not have existing procedures addressing political interference because they have never experienced such interference before. Yet an interview at NIH reported an instance of political interference.


    Recommendations

    The GAO is preparing seven (7) recommendations to the various agencies including the CDC, FDA, as well as the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and Health and Human Services itself. New procedures must be developed for reporting and addressing these bombshell allegations of political interference, and staff must be trained on how to report such whistleblower allegations. While the HHS concurred, TrialSite has reported throughout the pandemic patterns of heavy bias in favor of the pharmaceutical industry and high-priced vaccines and drugs versus low-cost repurposed generic therapies despite the fact that the conditions were urgent. Pfizer forecasts at least $50 billion from the vaccines in the first two years since the vaccine was controversially approved (the FDA essentially split the BNT162b2 and Comirnaty products in two--one remained an emergency use authorized (EUA) product and the other a fully approved product. Only the EUA product would be used yet it was approved. Many critics suggest the FDA accelerated the approval to back Biden administration's moves to introduce vaccine mandates at the federal level while encouraging them at the local government level.


    TrialSite suggests more than policies and procedures must be put in place as a culture of politicization has become clearly apparent during the pandemic, regardless of administration—they are all complicit in this unfortunate emerging dynamic

    You and Jed along with some corporate CEOs are the only ones in the world who feel trialsite is an anti vax site. I have yet to see any stories from mainstream media claiming trialsite as anti vax or even right-wing. Your classification of trialsite is just your own bias towards trialsite. You can continue to call me anti vaxer and I'll continue to make you want to cry to the mods. I tried Thomas you broke our deal!

    E&C Republicans Press NIH to Investigate Peter Daszak and EcoHealth Alliance for Research Cover-Up and Possible Fraud


    E&C Republicans Press NIH to Investigate Peter Daszak and EcoHealth Alliance for Research Cover-Up and Possible Fraud - Energy and Commerce Committee
    Washington, D.C. — House Energy and Commerce Committee Republican Leader Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA), Subcommittee on Health Republican Leader Brett Guthrie…
    republicans-energycommerce.house.gov


    KEY EXCERPT: “Our review of EcoHealth Alliance’s reports about its humanized mice experiments at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) using funds from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) shows pervasive discrepancies, inconsistencies, and omissions in its progress reports and renewal application that raise serious questions about scientific and ethical misconduct, violations of NIH policies and regulations, and possible false statements and fraud. Accordingly, we request the NIH investigate Dr. Peter Daszak, the Principal Investigator of R01AIll0964, and other EcoHealth officials to determine whether certain data related to mice deaths and other material information were intentionally withheld during the peer review process for EcoHealth’s grant renewal application.”

    VP Harris Fully Vaxed & Boosted Tests Positive for COVID-19 While Fauci Calls Pandemic Over: A Tee Up to Skedaddle Before Mid-Term Election


    VP Harris Fully Vaxed & Boosted Tests Positive for COVID-19 While Fauci Calls Pandemic Over: A Tee Up to Skedaddle Before Mid-Term Election
    www.trialsitenews.com


    Fully vaccinated and boosted U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris just tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus behind COVID-19 as confirmed by her press secretary Kirsten Allen. With no real symptoms she probably has a mild form of the virus and will isolate and continue to do the VPs’s business in her residence. The White House reports Harris hasn’t been in close contact with POTUS and will follow guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and her physicians. In other breaking news, Dr. Anthony Fauci declares the U.S. out of the pandemic stage, triggering a previous comment that he should be resigning. This would be just in time in anticipation of a political sea of change forthcoming—the environment may not be as hospitable to Fauci as 2023 approaches.


    Harris declared, “Today I tested positive for COVID-19. I have no symptoms, and I will continue to isolate and follow CDC guidelines. I’m grateful to be both vaccinated and boosted.”


    Dr. Anthony Fauci went on the record that the United States has transitioned out of the pandemic, Fauci says U.S. is out of coronavirus 'pandemic phase' - The Washington Post as reported by Bryan Pietsch for the Washington Post. In an interview with PBS’ Judy Woodruff, Fauci suggests thanks to a vaccination rate of about 66% and those naturally infected, Americans are moving out of the worst phase of COVID-19. The doctor declared:


    “So, if you add up the people who’ve been infected, plus the people who’ve been vaccinated and hopefully boosted, you have a rather substantial proportion of the United States population that has some degree of immunity that’s residual, either residual from prior infection, or hopefully people who are getting vaccinated and boosted.”


    Tee up for Resignation?

    In a recent local news interview, Dr. Anthony Fauci doesn’t discuss a recently disclosed “resignation pact” involving a group of physicians serving the previous POTUS, Donald Trump, according to a claim by Dr. Deborah Birx.


    In an interview on New York’s 1010 WINS Newsline with Brigitte Quinn, the chief medical advisor to Biden had to respond to the recent comment by Dr. Birx claiming to ABC News that during the Trump presidency if one of the doctors were to be fired then they would all resign in unison. When asked about it Fauci said, “I’m not going to comment about that.”


    Yet another pandemic book comes out as well—now, from Dr. Birx who was on ABC News undoubtedly to market the book and drive sales. She told ABC News that when Trump publicly discussed the idea of injecting COVID patients with disinfectant she became “paralyzed,” sharing she felt like she “wanted to be in the ‘Twilight Zone’ and have it all go away.”


    Back to the 81-year-old Fauci, who probably should have retired long ago, he emphasized he wanted to ensure the pandemic moved to endemic stage before stepping down. He probably should skedaddle before the mid-term elections

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