The Playground

Bang - you've inspired me so much that we need another video and song to accompany the viewing.
Check out the bucket when Mats first turns the corner and see if you can spot steam.
Wait for a frame or two then viola - wonderful, beautiful steam.. but wait for it, wait for it..
back around the corner to find Rossi messing with the controls.

It was so deja-vu all over again that I've got another song for everyone. Sorry for not sharing in the construction - feel free to make it better if the spirit moves you:

I saw him today at the inspection
A black hose in his hand
I felt that he was up to some deception
Because the steam was on demand.

He can't always get what he wants.
He can't always get what he wants.
He can't always get what he wants,
But if he lies sometime, he just might find, he gets what he needs.

So we went down to the demonstration
To see if we had excess heat or an excuse
Imagine the extent of our frustration
When we found out we'd been abused

He can't always get what he wants.
He can't always get what he wants.
He can't always get what he want,
But if he lies sometime, he just might find, he gets what you needs.

Quote from Dewey Weaver

Bang - you've inspired me so much that we need another video and song to accompany the viewing.
Check out the bucket when Mats first turns the corner and see if you can spot steam.
Wait for a frame or two then viola - wonderful, beautiful steam.. but…

I love the song...perfect "demonstration" anthem!!! My favorite part is at about 3:47 where you see the great Wizard of Rozz pulling away from the his magic control panel and then the look in his eye when his hand was caught in the cookie jar. "Stable, stable is going stable." Someone is not a very good actor....

Quote

Dewey: Wait for a frame or two then viola - wonderful, beautiful steam.. but wait for it, wait for it..
back around the corner to find Rossi messing with the controls.

Got it.
Yes, one could speculate that Andrea Rossi is adjusting some control on the blue box to "demonstrate" clear audible and visible steam output.
It can't decide that from the video, but one could say, it's a "suspicious" action by Andrea Rossi.
One could say, his reaction, when Mats talks to him right after that "situation" is something like "Did he caught me or not?"
I can't decide that.
I have some knowledge in judging personal behaviour in an act of lying to me, but I can't be sure from watching this video footage. Really not.
It smells, but it's not technical or maths.
Krivits video shows both. And it doesn't match to Andreas Rossi's claims..

Quote from stephenrenzz

the great Wizard of Rozz pulling away from the his magic control panel and then the look in his eye when his hand was caught in the cookie jar.

It never ceases to amaze me what you folks conjure up from whole cloth. I remember very well watching this video when it was first released, and watching very carefully, and never detected the sort of "deception" that you project. You can watch Rossi's reaction and place it into a normal context. Now, if your mind is already made up that he is the wonderful wizard of Oz, then yes, I can see how you could maybe project your thoughts onto his response. Try getting your rock solid evidence to hold up in court. As if his magic control panel could instantly generate steam just at the precise moment needed. Even if he could, what is there to gain? Just make fake steam all of the time!

LENR-Forum playground = no rules?!
This made me laugh! Really!
Maybe it could hurt the feelings of somebody, 'cause it's also joking on Prof. Foccardi and Prof. Kullander (R.I.P.)

Quote from Eric Walker

Another anomaly that I haven't wrapped my head around yet: in the fuel there was lithium at natural abundances, and in the ash there was lithium highly enriched in 6Li.

Quote from Eric Walker

The interesting detail for me is the elevated levels of 6Li. Lithium has a melting point of 180 C, so it will not have stayed in one place in this particular test. Is the suggestion that Rossi planted enriched 6Li? Perhaps this is readily possible given what we know about the circumstances of the handling of the reactor core and the obtaining of the sample for the assay; or is it?

Could be bought isotope separated (probably a mixture with natural Li). If most Li were evaporated, one would expect 7Li to remain since it is heavier. And you know what I think of p+Li-->2 alpha.

Quote from Thomas Clarke

The Li levels were very low in the ash (indicating possible errors) and natural fractionation through diffusion mechanisms also possible. So I don't see anything much in that: you'd need more domain-specific knowledge than I have to determine that this measurement was unusual (perhaps somone here has that: Peter Ekstrom?). Though given Rossi likely planted the 62Ni he could also have planted 6Li which is cheap.

Yes, se above.

Quote from Thomas Clarke

Though, in normal circumstances, robust transmutation evidence would be very strong.

I agree completely as long as the handling of the samples in better than that of LAPD (we have seen the movie of the OJ Simpson trial recently in Sweden). Note that his is for isotope ratios. Only elemental analysis may be completely misleading (evaporation, reacting with other compounds/elements...)

Quote from DNI

Quote from sifferkoll: “No need to crawl about whining Dewey. You could easily prove me wrong by showing me an official statement where IH/Darden states he still believs in and have seen "more than hope" of fully working LENR (could be Brillouin or…

DNI this is not directed to you okay?

---------------------------

On the sanity issue I will not comment but I have to ask a question on both sides.

What does all the personal attacks bring to the table? How does either side of the 'advocates either for or against' think this type of discussion accomplish?
I really want to know. I have been honest when I have been asked a question. I would respect an honest answer.

I think for us poor folks that follow the saga would like to know. How or why, does any of this help decide what happens in the courtroom?
I may be being naive, but it's a real question. So anyone here that can help I would appreciate it.
Anybody? Help me understand.
I have beat the being polite horse into the ground. So I am trying to understand. I will not bring it up again. (I kinda hope)
TIA

Quote from IH Fanboy

It never ceases to amaze me what you folks conjure up from whole cloth. I remember very well watching this video when it was first released, and watching very carefully, and never detected the sort of "deception" that you project. You can watch Rossi's reaction and place it into a normal context. Now, if your mind is already made up that he is the wonderful wizard of Oz, then yes, I can see how you could maybe project your thoughts onto his response. Try getting your rock solid evidence to hold up in court. As if his magic control panel could instantly generate steam just at the precise moment needed. Even if he could, what is there to gain? Just make fake steam all of the time!

Fanboy of course we are going to be looking for anything suspicious as skeptics and will note things that raise an eyebrow...equally the way you as a believer glaze over things that should be noted because of your unwavering faith in Rossi. You would not make a very good forensic investigator with your opinion of ignoring ancillary subtle details and just sticking to "rock solid evidence"...in fact you would fail as one. The devil is in the details, but I feel you are learning grasshopper....

My understanding is this. Some people (e.g. Sifferkoll and Mats) believe very strongly that Rossi is for real, and therefore that there must be a conspiracy to suppress his invention, or defraud him of it.

Because their belief is strong, they cannot imagine how somone of good will would honestly have a different view and (like me) devote some time to debating it here. So they must argue in a way that is very insulting to me (and others of a similar view). In fact Mats believes that I must have some dark ulterior motivation and has stated this on his no comments allowed now blog.

Such strong insults tend to provoke a response, and of course some people on both sides enjoy the knock-about. For myself, I enjoy holding my own when attacked, but it gets boring pretty quickly. I stay here because there is often interesting tech stuff, and of course I am as gripped by the Rossi/IH melodrama as anyone. 12 June is not so far away.

With Abd I see Dewey's knock-about mission here is being from personal affront. As an IH investor who knows Tom Darden he must be pretty annoyed at the elaborate allegations here of criminal behaviour from IH officers when from his POV the criminal is Rossi. I know I would be!

Quote from Dewey Weaver

It was so deja-vu all over again that I've got another song for everyone.

Here is some haiku:

The E-Cat
Paper tiger or mighty feline?
Penon and Rossi know.

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Someone of good will would not spend inordinate amounts of time debating about something he doesn't believe in: he would do stuff to further his/her species, and trolling 7 days a week on a fringe forum about woowoo science

You have a poor opinion of this forum: and the people here. I disagree. There are a only few woowoo advocates around... mostly those who avoid the science entirely.

Quote from Thomas Clarke

So they must argue in a way that is very insulting to me (and others of a similar view).

Funny how this is precisely what I observe as well--except directed at me (and others of a similar view)!

Quote from Dewey Weaver

Composing song lyrics ...

You made speculations ...

7. Rossi is about to flee to Sweden.
8. Rossi already has big new money in the bank from not one but two new victims.
9. Rossi could care less about LENR - he is all about the money.

and created some lyrics on the steam issue ...

Brings me to:
"No rest for the wicked" - Cage The Elephant
used in the computer game "Borderlands".

Bang - #7 is a prediction, #8 is confirmed, #9 is confirmed for some in the know and will be confirmed for all before this is all over.

Quote from Ecco

Since we're at it, (and putting aside that overanalyzing the Lugano report is probably like beating a dead horse) how is the "x100" in this spectrum and similar ones in the document supposed to be read in your opinion? Could it indicate that counts on the right of it have been scaled up 100 times, or that they are actually 100 times larger than depicted?

I read it to mean that they had enlarged everything to the right by two orders of magnitude. So a value that nominally was at 5e4 was really at 5e2. Perhaps this is a mistaken interpretation.

I am not sure if this was an answer to my post. But I appreciate it if it was. I thought Adb had a good summary. While I still believe in LENR or AHE or whatever. It is fundamentally important to have an open mind.
This OU world has caused me to think about circuits, chemistry and mathematics in a different way. It caused me to engage and think. There are so many scams. It was funny to see them in action.
Some of OU devices I have discounted. Mills, McClair, Orbo the list goes on.

While if I don't understand something, I will try to. Anyway....

I was lurking on E-catworld (I don't post as it is heavily moderated, but must say it is opening up a bit).
And a user here/there had a very good link about discussions on the Internet. So I want to give credit to Argon for taking the time to post 'thanks dude'.
It is from DISCQUS about believing anything you read.

If you are bored, it is self explanatory.
https://blog.disqus.com/are-in…controlling-your-thoughts

Quote from Eric Walker

I read it to mean that they had enlarged everything to the right by two orders of magnitude. So a value that nominally was at 5e4 was really at 5e2. Perhaps this is a mistaken interpretation.

Interesting. On the basis that this way the "Li-containing particle" would be composed almost entirely of Li and that the one without Li would be composed almost entirely of Na, I assumed the opposite.

Quote from Rigel

DNI this is not directed to you okay?

---------------------------

On the sanity issue I will not comment but I have to ask a question on both sides.

What does all the personal attacks bring to the table? How does either side of the 'advocates either for or against' think this type of discussion accomplish?
I really want to know. I have been honest when I have been asked a question. I would respect an honest answer.

I think for us poor folks that follow the saga would like to know. How or why, does any of this help decide what happens in the courtroom?
I may be being naive, but it's a real question. So anyone here that can help I would appreciate it.
Anybody? Help me understand.
I have beat the being polite horse into the ground. So I am trying to understand. I will not bring it up again. (I kinda hope)
TIA

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I tried to show the failed logic in Sifferkolls statement: "If not, I take as another direct confirmation of my hypothesis."

I tried to do this by making an example that i think shows how absurd it would be to take the failure of Weaver to produce an official statement from IH as confirmation for sifferkolls hypothesis.

I tried to do it in I humorous way but maybe I crossed a line and failed. To my defence Sifferkoll and I have discussed for many years in another forum and I actually thought he could see the fun in my comment. But if not I apologise to Sifferkoll. I don't think he is insane.