The Playground

Quote from Mary Yugo

Hey, Axil, explain to me how IH prevents a megawatt capable fusion reactor that runs for years on practically no fuel from succeeding in the market place. How do you do that, exactly? I can see an easy initial market for say, a billion units at a million dollars each, just for heating buildings and manufacturing.

As for explaining steam to a jury, all it will take is a demonstration of what a megawatt of dry steam can do and then what Rossi's idiotic kludge actually does. Especially if you measure the power into it properly and limit that to some reasonable value commensurate with the claimed COP of 50. I think anybody with a double digit IQ will understand it. And who will Rossi's experts be? Penon? ROTFWL! How about the famous NATO colonel, Fioraventi? Maybe coffee brewing expert, associate professor after 12 years, Levi?

Determining what a juror with a double digit IQ is convinced by is the name of the game.

Quote from axil

As much as you love the stuff, a good lawyer will avoid talk of bubbling steam like the plague.

That is incorrect. I doubt there will be a trial, but if there is, this claim will have to be examined. Not by lawyers, but by expert witnesses: HVAC engineers licensed in the state of Florida. The methods of measuring boiler efficiency are strictly defined by Florida law. If you do not follow these proceedures, you do not have the proper instruments, and you do not have a certificate from a licensed HVAC engineer, you are not allowed to operate a boiler. Rossi violated those laws. Any HVAC engineer called to the stand will say so. They will all say the methods Rossi used do not work. Rossi will not find any licensed engineer who says otherwise, because that would be perjury, and Florida law makes it quite clear that a licensed profession who lies about something in his professional ambit will lose his license. That is to say, a doctor who lies about medical treatment; a structural engineer who lies about why a bridge fell down; or an HVAC engineer who claims that Rossi's calorimetry is valid would lose their license and livelihood.

Quote from axil

Dear Jed,

I know that you're a man of fire and steam weaned on your father's knee with tails of the iron clad sailing ships and the iron men who sailed them when the 20th century was young. But steam drove a way of life that has long passed. The testimony about calorimetry will be so boring it will peal the paint off the courtroom walls and nary a soul in that august room will follow such a dry subject. As much as you love the stuff, a good lawyer will avoid talk of bubbling steam like the plague.

Only a good lawyer on Rossi's side of the isle will avoid talks of bubbling steam like the plague. Now on the IH side of the isle, they will be VERY happy to talk tech. Expert testimony is going to absolutely shred the Ecat into cat scraps (pun definitely intended). If IH decides to bring in any mainstream scientists of renowned name...then it will be an absolute slaughter...let alone what related field experts will do to the case. This will not be pretty for the cat...

Quote from JedRothwell

That is incorrect. I doubt there will be a trial, but if there is, this claim will have to be examined. Not by lawyers, but by expert witnesses: HVAC engineers licensed in the state of Florida. The methods of measuring boiler efficiency are strictly defined by Florida law. If you do not follow these proceedures, you do not have the proper instruments, and you do not have a certificate from a licensed HVAC engineer, you are not allowed to operate a boiler. Rossi violated those laws. Any HVAC engineer called to the stand will say so. They will all say the methods Rossi used do not work. Rossi will not find any licensed engineer who says otherwise, because that would be perjury, and Florida law makes it quite clear that a licensed profession who lies about something in his professional ambit will lose his license. That is to say, a doctor who lies about medical treatment; a structural engineer who lies about why a bridge fell down; or an HVAC engineer who claims that Rossi's calorimetry is valid would lose their license and livelihood.

Rossi did not use any methods, the party that was responsible for the design and implementation of the test was the ERV. Your method of propaganda is misdirection onto Rossi who has NO test responsibilities other than keeping the reactor going. If there was any violation of Florida law, that violation would fall onto the ERV and partially onto IH who ultimately contracted the ERV with the concurrence of Rossi under the terms of the licence agreement. It was IH who required the test to be run as a condition on payment for IP. Any fault in this required test is the responsibility of IH and not Rossi. This principle of misdirected fault off IH and onto Rossi is also demonstrated in the stephen ranzz post above.

It seems like clear thinking has taken a holiday in these parts and I eagerly await the return of clear thinking and the use of logic to this forum.

Quote from axil

Rossi did not use any methods, the party that was responsible for the design and implementation of the test was the ERV. Your method of propaganda is misdirection onto Rossi who has NO test responsibilities other than keeping the reactor going. If there was any violation of Florida law, that violation would fall onto the ERV and partially onto IH who ultimately contracted the ERV with the concurrence of Rossi under the terms of the licence agreement. It was IH who required the test to be run as a condition on payment for IP. Any fault in this required test is the responsibility of IH and not Rossi. This principle of misdirected fault off IH and onto Rossi is also demonstrated in the stephen ranzz post above.

It seems like clear thinking has taken a holiday in these parts and I eagerly await the return of clear thinking and the use of logic to this forum.

This is all a moot point as it will likely be quite obvious in court where the fabrications originate from...and that is not Penon...he is merely a pawn at this point.

Quote from axil

Rossi did not use any methods, the party that was responsible for the design and implementation of the test was the ERV.

Penon is Rossi's puppet. I am sure Rossi designed this test. It has all the hallmarks of his work.

Quote from axil

Your method of propaganda is misdirection onto Rossi who has NO test responsibilities other than keeping the reactor going.

In that case, Penon should have filed suit against I.H. I think Rossi has claimed he hasn't even read the report. Of course that is absurd; you do not need to read the report to do calorimetry. You just look at the instruments. But if this were true and he has not read the report, and he has no responsibility and no knowledge, in that case he also has no basis to claim there is heat or there is no heat. He has no basis to file a suit against I.H.

Quote from axil

If there was any violation of Florida law, that violation would fall onto the ERV and partially onto IH who ultimately contracted the ERV with the concurrence of Rossi under the terms of the licence agreement.

The law does not work that way. If you run a company with a boiler that has not been inspected, you cannot point to an employee and say "that is his fault, not mine." The police hold you responsible for what happens in your company.

If you run a company where there is an accident caused because equipment was not properly inspected or certified, the police, OSHA and others will not let you off the hook because one of your employees was running the equipment. Even if you can show you were absent from the facility on the day of the accident, you are still responsible.

Quote from sifferkoll

Wait, didn't you say that before. Do you actually believe it will become the truth, if you just keep vomiting it all over the place?

Ohhhh the irony of Sufferkill speaking of repeating something in hopes it will become truth! That's rich!

Jed: "The law does not work that way."

I thought that you were a PDP-11 assembly language expert and not a lawyer.

Quote from axil

Jed: "The law does not work that way."

I thought that you were a PDP-11 assembly language expert and not a lawyer.

That little jab there would imply YOU are a lawyer Axil...you are just on a roll today man! lol

Quote from axil

I thought that you were a PDP-11 assembly language expert and not a lawyer.

Someone who can write in PDP-11 assembly language probably has the ability to read the Law. This looks like an attempt at astroturfing. The usual ad hominem attack.

Quote from stephenrenzz

That little jab there would imply YOU are a lawyer Axil...you are just on a roll today man! lol

No, that is just a taste of what Jed usually gives to me. Jed is very good in debates, a verbal jujitsu master; he knows all the tricks, turnarounds, and misdirections.

Quote from Keieueue

You guys really are at a loss for salient arguments if your only narrative now is to accuse independent posters of the corruption you spread

What? Why don't you step out of the playground for a minute to see real discussions are going on in other topical threads...you must be at quite a loss for this post being what you have to contribute today...impressive Keieueueueeu.

Quote from Hermes

Someone who can write in PDP-11 assembly language probably has the ability to read the Law. This looks like an attempt at astroturfing. The usual ad hominem attack.

If you have ever written PDP-11 assembly language, you would know calling such a programer an expert speaks to his highest intelligence. Jed is no dummy.

Quote from Mary Yugo

@Jed Rothwell

Well, Jed, now you see what it is like to argue with people who have little practical knowledge of science and technology and don't know they don't know. With respect to Rossi, I've been doing it since 2011.

And off topic, but this is the thread for it, after nine years of killing hundreds, maybe thousands of people a year with the use of explosive detectors based on dowsing, which does not work, the Iraqi government has banned them and some of the architects of the debacle have been fired. What should have happened to them is that they should have been placed in a mine field with only the dowsing rod they sold to get them out.

https://www.theguardian.com/wo…-al-abadi-james-mccormick

I am pleased to have contributed to the exposure of this fraud, if only in a small way which, sadly, did not have enough influence early on to stop the scam outside the US and the UK. My contribution was to this web site:

http://sniffextest.blogspot.com/ and indirectly to this one http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/

And people like Abd ul-Rahman Lomax still believe the method has merit and make lame excuses instead of objective double blind tests about it.

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Excuse me - are you saying that the Blessed Abd thinks that the dowsing mine detector has merit, or that LENR has merit, or both?

If the former, I am stunned. When I learned that dowsing mine detection was even a thing, I wanted to resign from the human race.

And, Mary Yugo, however small a part you may have played in exposing the scam and the scammers - WELL DONE YOU

Alan & Mary

Of course dowsing is not a 'proper science' and if Abd believes this he is wrong. But then LENR is not a 'proper science' either.
However, there is absolutely no reason why unusual and supernatural 'phenomena' should not be subject to the discipline of science including 'dowsing'. http://www.sciencefocus.com/qa…ientific-evidence-dowsing

The difficult question is 'can science (at any moment in time) describe 'reality' or do we need to anticipate corrections to take into account anomalies in say the 'standard model', 'relativity' or indeed 'quantum theory or any other theory'?

Well of course we do, but while the phenomena remains outside 'current scientific theory' as we know on this forum, it runs the risk of being labelled, 'pseudoscience', 'pathological science', and worse. This then enters the realm of Huw Prices 'reputation trap'.

Abd may believe in dowsing, I respect that he has his own beliefs if this is so. I believe the LENR phenomena is real and I would hope that serious seekers of the truth would respect my belief whilst not necessarily agreeing with me, I of course would respect their view if they did not.

But what I do not respect, in any shape or form, are the 'ad hom' hints, and other full on criticism of others points of view which are personal without any substantial justification.

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible. Arthur C. Clarke, "Technology and the
Future" (Clarke's second law)

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961
(Clarke's third law)

"If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. ... It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of
true art and true science." Albert Einstein

Quote from Ascoli65

I don't like at all name calling the people. I find it absolutely useless and irritating.

Best regards
Frank