I am so surprised by your answer
The Playground
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A am not. Apart from FrancescoC's comment, and a few remarks about Gammas from from AR himself, nobody else ever saw any radiation either. As you say Alain, the Celani story is the only one where the report came (whatever the source of the radiation) from someone truly independent.
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Alan and Alainco - in the line of the hypothetical, how does one go about creating an energetic burst that would trigger a such a set of sensors?
Would a quick open / close of a specific check source from 8m away thru a wall or curtain one possible way for that to happen? Would that be dangerous for the opener / closer and others around that
action? If the sensor is sensitive enough then a banana or red pottery can set of an alert.
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Yes indeed it could. However, if the burst did come from the 7-8M away that Celani suggested it suggests a very powerful source, not a small check source and not easily handled and not easily hidden. In my youth I was entrusted with shipping C60 radiotherapy sources between hospitals in London and Amersham Nuclear Laboratory. In those more relaxed times I used to take the big and very heavy unmarked and unlocked lead lined boxes on the tube network - and on the buses - which would seem scandalous now. But even unmarked the boxes looked curious.
As for Fiesta ware (let's ignore bananas) even very close up it would take a few minutes to trigger the alarm on most pocket detectors - I have some here I use as a check source, so I speak from experience.
ETA- it might just be possible with a powerful RF source - not sure - but AFAIK nobody knew Celani had detectors in his pocket, and when AR found out he got very grouchy indeed. BTW, I have met Francesco too. An engaging rascal.
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However, if the burst did come from the 7-8M away that Celani suggested it suggests a very powerful source, not a small check source and not easily handled and not easily hidden
I think an X-ray laser would do the trick. But more likely some more mundane explanation. It is awfully difficult to work out these experimental one-offs post hoc.
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This is why murica! David_Hahn knows. When I was a kid I worked for a company that made strain gauges. One customer said the thing was broken so tossed it out in the snow on its side. It rusted with all the safety devices defeated. They sent some workers out to a pickup truck to bring it out and back into the work area. I was young but I had to xsplain to them, no no no. Rigel said f$%^ that nonsense and quit. Sources are very common. I do not recall what was used but 40 years ago things were different.
So to get a radiotide you only needed to go into a locked cabinet.
Does not answer Deweys question, but jogged my memories as a kid. Ah youth!
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think an X-ray laser would do the trick.
Good idea - probably a pocket-sized one like this. We must not forget that Rossi was not alone in the test area when the radiation balloon went up- I think people might have noticed him dragging out the Uranium pellets.
Photo by F. Dominec - Own work, GFDL, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=6592071
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I'm definitely never going to a Rossi demo if he's firing xray lasers at the assembled crowd! Maybe with some lead underpants.
It could have been in a third room Alan.
How powerful would the beam have to be to register 1000cps?
Would a dividing wall spread the beam, or would it require some accurate pointing/targeting?
I have vague memories of it supposedly being confirmed with a second hidden counter. Not sure at all about that though.
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A dividing wall would attenuate the beam, but not AFAIK make it diverge - unless it produced bremstraalung -in which case anything could happen.
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One row of chairs!
Or enfilade, as we military fetishists like to say.
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I would have initially guessed a gamma emitting check source, but experts will know whether such a thing would plausibly pass through whatever building materials there were. How about a coincidental cosmic ray burst?
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If he was in (yet) another room, he wouldn't necessarily know where to point his source...from memory Franceso was in the john pointing at something else when the balloon went up.
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I do not think a laser of any type was a possible source. Due to scattering when hitting the room. But I was wondering about what was used when I was a kid so it was either Co-60 or Cs-137.not-that-anyone-cares-but-sources Maybe he just went to amazon and got Uranium-$39-bucks. Or just got some old-time Vaseline glass from his wifes "china cabinet".
"Hey why we are looking at the E-cat have a glass of wine"
I like green glass
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If he was in (yet) another room, he wouldn't necessarily know where to point his source...from memory Franceso was in the john pointing at something else when the balloon went up.
I do not think so. He didn't mention that. I believe the description here was written by me, after consulting with him. He would have mentioned that.
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Celani also checked emissions from a different room, according to this (actual link to the post here )
QuoteCelani was asked about his secret spectrometric reading in the one e-cat test that he attended. He said that gamma radiation readings were off the chart of the instrument for a moment at about the same time the reactor started. He also took several other secret readings by pretending to go to the bathroom which was nearby. The instability of the emission was a good sign according to him.
This transcript is from an old video (subtitled in English, starting from 20:14) and seems consistent with the previous quote:
QuoteDisplay MoreBefore the experiment began, without others realizing it, I ran some checks to make sure, in the first place, that there were no radioactive sources hidden somewhere in the reactor; secondly, that there were no generators of powerful electromagnetic interference capable of jamming electronic instruments; thirdly that there were no massive power cables around, capable of simulating a power excess with nothing but a 10 kW water boiler. I ran these checks without Rossi's knowledge and everything seemed OK.
At a certain point Rossi said he was about to begin the experiment. I then decided to use the gamma-spectrometer (which is battery-operated as well) without the power cable, because if there is any electromagnetic interference, this may be carried through the ground wire, and can alter the measurement.
Everything was working: a battery powered mini-Geiger, a microwave detector, also battery powered, and an ELF detector, battery powered as well. Therefore, four independent instruments, all battery powered.
After various vicissitudes, because the reactor was having major problems, some inner resistors had broken down, Mr. Rossi came out of the room delighted: "The reactor has started". Before he came out, a few minutes, before, I had independently measured that both the gamma detector and the mini Geiger had hit the top of the scale, whereas the two detectors of electromagnetic interference were not showing anything. This meant that a short but intense emission of gamma radiation had taken place.Afterwards, everything went back to normal, and we stayed in the hall to see what was happening. After about an hour, I don't recall the time exactly, I was allowed to go and take a look at the working reactor with my portable detector set for gamma count, and I began to perform a check. I noticed that there was an increase of total gamma radiation compared to the amount recorded before the beginning of the experiment, not a dangerous increase, around 50%. And, most important, it wasn't a stable increase, rather a very, very unstable one. This means that there was something live inside, changing the emission, the feeble emission, of gammas.
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He may pop in and post himself...perhaps.
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I just like how Jed upvoted the above comment - yet he will insist, that Rossi is fraudster and snake oil dealer...
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http://www.e-catworld.com/2012…i-on-the-safety-of-cop-6/
Rossi said this in the interview:
"You have correctly said that when we made the first experiments we had a COP: 200; we were working with powers of some hundreds of watts. We were working at an absolutely experimental situation. Now we are making products that have to be sold to industries at the moment (because the domestic have not been certified for safety).
It is right to make a Forumula 1 car to race, and to push to the extreme an engine, to learn how to make normal engines, and to make a car that has to be driven by normal people like me. To go to a COP 200 is extremely dangerous, and when I worked at those powers it happened that we had some escape of neutrons, in some situation. For obvious reasons this is very dangerous. This is why we had to reduce to 6, and this is why we have to limit the self-sustain mode . . . we must stay within the absolutely sure safety limits, this is very important."
Of course, Rossi seems to have overcome the early R/D problem with neutron emissions at high COP's, as he ran the 1MW at Doral at COP's up to 183.
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And indicated in a post (somewhere- I forget where) that there was a lot of shielding in the big reactors.
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Jed,
I would like to know more about Brockis tested 100 reactors at a time. From your Jeds-paper . If possible I would like to know how this was done. -thx
