Thanks Bob- that explains a lot, especially the divergence between the Durapot 810 that IH used to make the reactors and the analysis done by Prof. Enio Bonetti. AFAIK btw, all these reactors have a stainless (?) steel tube core. The reactor body was cast around the outside of it in a plastic mould. Unless DW knows better?
The Playground
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The Lugano reactor, as can be seen in the patent application, has a roughly 1 cm OD alumina tube in the core. The ribs on the outer tube (which covers the heater coils), and caps, are molded from Durapot.
(The 4mm ID of the central tube, as mentioned in the Lugano report, seems doubtful based on scaling the patent drawing. The inner (core) tube plugs are closer to 7 mm. The plug used for the thermocouple and fueling the reactor was described as a bushing, and may have been two parts, with a 4 mm OD plug and an already-installed 7 mm OD sleeve-spacer-bushing, but that is unclear and mostly guessing. However, it is hard to see how the thermocouple was inserted into a gap between the tube wall and the end plug, and still seal properly.)
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I remember when Lugano was new and it seemed that there would be hundreds of 2 and 3 COP replications all over the world within months, Leonardo and IH were going to the most profitable companies in the world...
But not in this universe.
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@Para
As has been said innumerable times, and bears saying again, the so-called Lugano test (or ANY so-called hot cat test) was not needed to make Rossi billions of dollars. All he needed was a patent based on the 18 hour experiment performed by Levi and proper replications of that experiment including appropriate calibration and blank runs to prove that the measurement method accurately accounted for the heat output. Simple. A few weeks, not much money and voila, it would have been proven and settled. In 2011. It's a hallmark of a scammer that they change the experiment constantly, never replicate, never calibrate and provide conflicting information as they go along. But the pattern is usually (like Rossi's) one of increasing complexity, decreasing efficiency (COP) and lower and more uncertain absolute power results with time. Examples include obvious crooks like Steorn and Carl Tilley (the DeLorean car that never needed charging or fuel). Before them, Dennis Lee, Howard Johnson, Bedini and many, many others.
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@Mary Yugo ,
All it had to do was actually work
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AFAIK btw, all these reactors have a stainless (?) steel tube core. The reactor body was cast around the outside of it in a plastic mould.
No, it is highly unlikely the core tube in the Lugano reactor was stainless steel. The heater would have been wound on the outside of this internal core tube or on a separate alumina tube of its own. Then, the finned structure would have been cast over this. If the cast material was made of pure alumina with some kind of slip, firing would have required temperatures that would have damaged the heater coil inside. So, if it was pure alumina, the heater would have had to have been inserted after the molding, putting it not in direct contact with the outer finned structure. This would mean that the heater coil might be at a substantially higher temperature than the surface.
BTW, I would like to use stainless steel for my reactor tubes because they are cheap and easy to seal with compression fittings. However, I have found that there is corrosion if they are exposed to air at high temperature (1200C) for any length of time and will corrode through the full 0.021" of the tube. I have inquired about getting the same tubes made from inconel 600 alloy. The Omega thermocouples I use have an inconel 600 alloy sheath and these have performed well in air at 1200C.
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They are made from Durapot 810, apparently. So not quite pure magnesia. I agree with you about the stainless steel oxidation problem btw, but I guess Hydrogen inside and potting compound outside protects it somewhat.
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For the boiling water discussion, the significant variability of the boiling point.
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Thanks Bob- that explains a lot,
I think not. If metal impurities were present they should be visible in the analysis. Note also that there is almost no background spectrum or not identified peaks in the spectrum.
never replicate, never calibrate
Never replicate or calibrate. Mary where did you live ?
Before Lugano there was Ferrara, And all the test have internal calibrations and checks.
And you also forget the experiments by Parkhomov and others.
As usual you are just repeating your false statements. Is evident that (from years) that you have an agenda.
You seem to have transformed part of the scientific knowledge in a kind of religion.
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Ele: Repeating misleading statements does not win arguments.
Lugano had very carefully checked input, and yet no internal check or calibration.
Parkhomov could not even replicate his own results, and as you well know MFMP after muh trying has not done this.
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Shane D. ,
Probably here is a better place to discuss Penon and Cures.
You may enjoy the comments here, if you have the patience...
http://22passi.blogspot.ca/201…imenticare-e-vedrete.html
Google Translated: https://translate.google.ca/tr…70%23c3090696892685190754
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Found this gem there in the October Pordenone discussion.
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ABD Watch
The exiled Maximum Leader and alleged hirsute recipient of IH's love, Abd, has (in his wisdom) refrained from offering any personal commentary regarding myself lately, as such, I will oblige him the same courtesy.
Also, whilst it is true that:
There are gems in [Abd's] mud, but not much in your's.
...I prefer to think of Abd's "gems" as being more like chunks of sweetcorn.
Speaking of which, here's more digested highlights and/or lowlights from CFC.net:
- Abd unadroitly reveals a hitherto unknown partner/potential plaintiff of Industrial Heat Inc!!!... None other than Mitchell R Swartz and his elusive NANORS! Apparently Hagelstein has been told to keep his big mouth shut. Or something.
- Abd outrageously pronounces a deathwish (with a preference for a tortured afterlife) upon the eminent engineer and scientific researcher Dr Peter Gluck. No doubt forgetting that (according to Dante at least) he himself has a place reserved in at least two circ [...snip]
- And finally, after receiving previous constructive criticism, Abd has re-balanced the proportion of pages devoted to "LENR Theory"/"The Scientific Method", versus "Slagging Off LENR-forum Admin". Some may choose to note that several pages which touch on that subject, have not been added to said category, however, that would possibly be churlish.
Best regards,
Zeus46
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Here's Cures (white shirt) on Oct 6, 2011, in Bologna.
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Sure sign I am too involved with this, when I immediately recognize Stremmenos. "Cures" too. Interesting body language by both. Very French like. Only thing missing in this picture is Alan, in between the two, staring upwards.
Thanks for all your photos. Maybe we should call you the photograph wizard? You always seem to pull one out from wherever you pull them from, that no one has seen before.
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Ele: Repeating misleading statements does not win arguments.
For one time I agree with you. So why you are repeating your statements ?
and yet no internal check or calibration.
O Boy! As far as I remember.
They had run the dummy (empty) reactor first and then they measured the emissivity of the pipes......
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Sure sign I am too involved with this, when I immediately recognize Stremmenos. "Cures" too. Interesting body language by both. Very French like. Only thing missing in this picture is Alan, in between the two, staring upwards.
Well, I wasn't there. Bit I can tell you exactly where that was taken, in the service/loading area of the UniBo Astrophysics Department.
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For one time I agree with you. So why you are repeating your statements ?
O Boy! As far as I remember.
They had run the dummy (empty) reactor first and then they measured the emissivity of the pipes......
Perhaps your memory is somewhat selective. The dummy test was at a much lower temperature than the real test making comparison irrelevant, because there are highly temperature dependent factors here such as the ratio between IR band emissivity and total emissivity of alumina. You could engage with TC's paper if you wish, or with P here who has worked through this stuff, or me. We will be able to tell you what are your misconceptions if you stick to it long enough, giving reasons for your assertions.
To be fair, the authors recognised this issue, which is why they definitely stated that the dummy test was not a control. Have you read the report? That part of it is quite accurate...
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Cures again, Oct 6 2011.
