The Playground

  • It is quite clear that Murray was asking questions looking for answers, and a working e-cat tested by Murray would be a very convincing answer both for IH before the test end and for the Court now. Or, if Murray would not cooperate, just the recorded fact that Rossi had offered this would count strongly in his favour.

    When Murray came into play (and especially when he tried to replicate the E-cat) the relationship between Rossi and Darden was already compromised. If you do not trust one person anymore, you begin to doubt about every gesture of him, so certainly you do not help him or a friend of him: Rossi would have never help Murray in his job.

  • When Murray came into play (and especially when he tried to replicate the E-cat) the relationship between Rossi and Darden was already compromised. If you do not trust one person anymore, you begin to doubt about every gesture of him, so certainly you do not help him or a friend of him: Rossi would have never help Murray in his job.


    The issue is whether Rossi wanted $89M and to win the Court case. He has to show that he has transferred IP and therefore that his reactors work. But, then, no doubt you will tell me Rossi behaves irrationally and I'd agree...

  • IH should pay, he didn't and it started with evasions, so that Rossi sued him - what is irrational about it?


    Zephir,


    If only it were that simple! A few little matters do complicate the picture somewhat... don't you think? Like maybe the fake company Rossi misrepresented to IH, his stripping off the steam trap before the test started, rusty Big Frankies, leaking plumbing, heat cables, hidden pump, Rossi denying Murray entry to the test area, raw data corruption and deletion, mystery of the mezzazine heat exchanger, spoliation galore, Fabiani fleeing to Russia, and Penon refusing to enter the US. Probably missed a dozen or so, but I think those are the major items. :)


    All things considered, I think the better question is: would it have been rational under those circumstances for IH to pay?

  • Nigel, you wonder..? :-)

    The most simple and only one logical explanation is: his stuff doesn't work nor will it be approved for sale elsewhere in the world. Instead of making money like hell and buy the entire Florida peninsula he spends endless time with BS talks to himself for his followers on JONP and wastes millions in a completely useless lawsuit. What a man!


    But here we all are.....



    We are still talking about that fellow, if someone is talking to a wall-- doesn't it look kinda funny? Some people can not only be NOT BE MOVED by logic nor science.


    Leaving that old scoundrel alone for a second. What is the point anymore that his "method" is not repeatable and not only that one of the ones we had hopes in recently pulled a boner and will not admit it. I don't think the pro-rossi crowd is stupid, but I would be if I continued to talk to a wall of unmovable ignorance.


    I was happy when this started and the first real report came out, then IH got on board so I was thinking it has to be real. But dreaming aside the reality is that it does not work. Never has and that quarkx is a quack. If it walks like a duck....


    Also Jed you are so right on this me356 debacle, but whats the point of logic now? When people attack you I take it personally . Since you give a damn about LENR and have proved it many times over. It makes me so mad sometimes. Anyway I will continue to hope in new science and technology. But this Rossi driven belief in whatever he "says" is getting bizarre. The man is a crook and is leading people astray.

  • I had high hopes that I.H. would fund research. I think they would have, but they have been derailed by the lawsuit. They fired the technical staff. They may be funding a few studies, but I doubt they will contribute significant amounts of money.

    So that R&D center they opened up near Raleigh headed by Antonio La Gatta is just a figment of our imagination?

  • The lawsuit will end in a short time and if it will be positive for Rossi, he will have enough money to finance any new product. Moreover from Asti come good news, they talk about COP 3. I would wait before filling me with pills .....


    They "talk"? Friend, if "talk" meant anything, we would have been heating our homes with Ecats since 2012...

  • @jedd. An earlier post you mentioned trying to avoid radiation for twenty years, I don't recall any of your posts that pertained to you working on anything. Are you implying that you can make it work and you just have a lot of radiation and trying to figure out how to control it or you are not working on anything and trying to figure it out by other people's comments. Sorry if I don't understand and if you are working on something can you elaborate ,mabee some pictures of your reactor? . Got to be carefull here these people have good memories

  • I had high hopes that I.H. would fund research. I think they would have, but they have been derailed by the lawsuit. They fired the technical staff. They may be funding a few studies, but I doubt they will contribute significant amounts of money. That is why I say Rossi destroyed the last, best hope for cold fusion.

    IH's supporters have often written that Rossi is not the most important character among those who are gravitating around IH, since IH has a large portfolio whose members are the protagonists of the LENR scene. Now I read "they may be funding a few studies" ... and Brillouin? And La Gatta? Your comment doesn't make sense...

  • The issue is whether Rossi wanted $89M and to win the Court case. He has to show that he has transferred IP and therefore that his reactors work. But, then, no doubt you will tell me Rossi behaves irrationally and I'd agree...

    Sure, but if he do not trust Murray's impartiality, it makes no sense that he give to Murray himself the custody of his secrets. When a relationship deteriorates, the first thing that disappears is trust, and this is on both sides. I believe that Rossi is convinced of winning even without Murray's copy-Ecat, and I think he made a good choice not relying on the counterpart to achieve his goal.

  • Sure, but if he do not trust Murray's impartiality, it makes no sense that he give to Murray himself the custody of his secrets.

    He had a contractual obligation to "give custody" of his secrets to anyone at I.H. He had no right to decide who within I.H. he taught the secrets to; he had to teach them to any employee I.H. designated.


    If, as you say, he did not do this, then he failed to fulfill the contract. So he should not be paid the $89 million. You apparently think I.H. should have paid him. Yet here you say he did not fulfill the contract. Which is it? You cannot have it both ways. If he did not teach Murray the secrets, he should not be paid.


    In point of fact, the Penon report shows the device did not work and there were no secrets. That is why Axil and others refuse to read it.

  • In point of fact, the Penon report shows the device did not work and there were no secrets. That is why Axil and others refuse to read it.

    I have red it

    http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-c…7/03/197-03-Exhibit-3.pdf


    And I presume that nobody is refusing to read it, apart probably you.

    Where and how a report that shows a COP>80 would show that device not work ?


    Interesting that you are free to affirm that without nobody saying that your post should go to the recycle material!

  • But this Rossi driven belief in whatever he "says" is getting bizarre. The man is a crook and is leading people astray.

    Stop insulting and read reports. About Lenr there are plenty of positive results from Russia, Japan, US, and Italy independently from Rossi. Read and Learn.

    Jed library could be helpful in that.

  • Omg you guys we've been telling you for nearly a decade now, Rossi has nothing, why don't you let it go? I'm not even sure we should be discussing LENR, this is best left to serious researchers with solid capital behind them. Boy, all this Rossi talk sure made me sleepy..

  • Stop insulting and read reports. About Lenr there are plenty of positive results from Russia, Japan, US, and Italy independently from Rossi. Read and Learn.

    Jed library could be helpful in that.


    Right. And all those people have decided to hide results that would win them the Nobel Prize and billions of dollars? Stop and smell the failures!

  • It is a general question, is LENR real?


    In my opinion YES, because for what other reason would all these unbelievers here and outside so massive engage?

    The number of words by unbelievers' is 10 times higher than that of the 'LENR-believers'!


    That makes sense only if there is something in the story!

  • Right. And all those people have decided to hide results that would win them the Nobel Prize and billions of dollars?

    They have never hidden their results. I have 4,387 papers on file. See:


    http://lenr-canr.org/DetailOnly.htm


    They do not win the Nobel prize because of academic politics. That is to say, because most other scientists ignore the results, and a few organizations such as the DoE and Nature magazine attack and ridicule the research.


    Publishing results does not bring you the Nobel Prize or billions of dollars. If you are a young researcher without tenure, and you publish a positive result, you will be fired. Your academic career will be over.


  • Young researcher? You guys keep telling us that Toyota and Mitsubishi had LENR replications. Mega corporations are not exactly "young researchers".


    Do you actually believe that these mega corporations are NOT winning the Nobel Prize and NOT making billions of dollars off LENR to...what?... be a part of an Illuminati conspiracy or something?

  • Stop insulting and read reports. About Lenr there are plenty of positive results from Russia, Japan, US, and Italy independently from Rossi. Read and Learn.

    Jed library could be helpful in that.


    ele I can not say I have read all the reports. But you will also read that I do not subscribe to -> "the you are Rossi stuff " either. I think for myself. I align myself with people that provide good logic, good reasoning and are honest in their hearts, but science is science and this is science no longer . But I read the reports, but at sometime I have to stop.

    Your boy has nothing and is a crook. But you know and I know there are no new reports on his work. We are just rehashing the same old stuff, like when around the family table at the holidays reliving the old days. So incase you never heard this I believe in LENR, I have problems with the OU part. It works but can not sustain and I have read every thing I can that I feel is relevant. So please separate the field of research on anomalous evidence from just outright fraud. Okay? On other thing, I really like Axil and we are pretty opposed on this Rossi stuff spectrum wise, we agree to disagree. But we work together because we want a better future. And a better future for LENR does not have Rossi in it.


    So we are clear okay? Bring something new to the table, I do and post it with an OT (off topic) label. I really hate it here when we talk past each other so I hope I am clear.

    But this it the important part, I do not mind to be taken to task or educated when I am wrong. In fact I appreciate it. So do it i encourage it.

  • Young researcher?

    I said there are no young researchers, except at U. Missouri. The others cannot get funded.

    Do you actually believe that these mega corporations are NOT winning the Nobel Prize and NOT making billions of dollars off LENR to...what?... be a part of an Illuminati conspiracy or something?

    I know what is happening at these corporations. I have visited them, attended conferences with the researchers, and translated their papers. They face a lot of opposition, both external and internal. They are barely funded by the company, and many people in the company -- especially at upper levels -- oppose the research because they know nothing about it and they think it is pathological science. They do not want to see the company associated with cold fusion.


    The mass media, the DoE, and the Japanese government agencies similar to the DoE also think it is pathological science, although some people in the Japanese NEDO agency disagree. They pushed through a small program in cold fusion for hundreds of thousands of dollars to be shared by several research organizations. In Japanese this level of funding is called "sparrow's tears." They barely have enough money to attend meetings in Tokyo, never mind buying the kinds of instruments they need.


    You seem to have the notion that publishing excellent research with replicated, positive, peer-reviewed, high sigma results will bring the scientific establishment around, and eventually win the Nobel Prize. That is not how it works. Read history. Academic politics prevent that, and they always have.


    This is real life. When there is money involved, and your results might lead to other people losing funding if you are recognized, you run into a wall of opposition. In this case plasma fusion research would suffer, and many mainstream physicists who claimed that cold fusion is garbage and fraud would lose face. They don't give you a Nobel; they destroy your reputation, gut your funding, and fire you if they can. Most cold fusion researchers were forced into early retirement. Their reputations were dragged through the mud. They were accused of criminal fraud in the pages of the Washington Post, the New York Times, Nature magazine, Scientific American, the New Scientist and others. They were never allowed to respond. When that happens to a professional person, her career is over.


    If anyone publishes a positive result today, the same thing will happen to them.


    See:


    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MalloveEclassicnas.pdf


    See p. 5:


    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJthefuturem.pdf

  • Quote

    They do not win the Nobel prize because of academic politics. That is to say, because most other scientists ignore the results, and a few organizations such as the DoE and Nature magazine attack and ridicule the research.


    Why would scientists ignore results that could lead to limitless power, tons of money, and even Nobel prizes? That will be hard to explain. And you can't rely on the scientists' love for the status quo. After all, they rushed to duplicate and study F&P's research when it first came out. I propose a better reason: most mainstream scientists who are properly qualified and have looked at LENR are convinced from the available results that LENR has never been properly demonstrated and may, in fact, not even exist.

  • I said there are no young researchers, except at U. Missouri. The others cannot get funded.


    There are young researchers! Also at Asti! Every new finding will bring in some more. Finally after all important old LENR experiments (Celani, Mizunu, Iwamura etc.) were confirmed, also Mills findings by different Russian researchers, we are only a few steps away from a "field explosion" like in computer science after 1990. (Which was a great experience.)



    You seem to have the notion that publishing excellent research with replicated, positive, peer-reviewed, high sigma results will bring the scientific establishment around, and eventually win the Nobel Prize. That is not how it works. Read history. Academic politics prevent that, and they always have.


    True: Only the experiment = proven COP/scaleable process/save/cheap.. counts.


    Mills breakthrough paper with the ionization energy calculations (values > 2 digits better than QM/QED) has been thrashed by an organized mafia operation. (Physics review letters A completed the peer review announce the publication date... He had to republish it in a lower level journal...)