I agree Alain, I wasn't even thinking about penny-a-post astroturfing, I was thinking of the voluntary kind.
"Voluntary astroturfing" - aren't this two words kind of contradicting?
The Playground
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"Voluntary astroturfing" - aren't this two words kind of contradicting?
Can't see how astroturfing would be anything but voluntary. Perhaps Alan meant "unpaid"
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By voluntary I meant 'acts performed without external inducement,' Such inducements might include threats, money or promises of future benefits.
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Again with this house claim which ele already tried to BS through. Where is the evidence that they built houses?
It is clear that they bought an already polluted site with the intention of remediating it and the job was much bigger than planned. Do you think they just pocket the money they received? That would be even cheekier than Rossi.Well, please take a look to this document:
From the Order of California DTSC document it is clear that Cherokee Simeon Venture is responsible as much as Zeneca, from which they bought the lots. It is in fact evident from the beginning that Cherokee is one of the "Respondents". It is also state in the document that subsequent ownership changes will not release Respondents from their responsibilities (§6.25)
It was then the DTSC to stop the speculation of Cherokee. Dear Jimmy, is it pretty cheeky for you?
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Evidence, this is not a requirement for the magnificent of the R.SSC and M..ele... twisting duo. It's pretty clear why they are present here getting more desperate by the hour. The obvious problem is no matter what brief the jury are given, they will do a Google search for 'LENR' to try to understand the technology. Google results in the UK and possibly elsewhere list only one open forum (can be read without login) on the first page, guess which one.
First of all I am not Rossi, it should be fairly clear from my way of writing, which is different from his. Moreover you know that if the jury is looking for information on the internet, it will commit an illicit, and I doubt that a person called to judge would put himself in the condition of being judged. Finally if your speech is valid for Rossi, then it is also for IH: on this forum (and not just here) people often talk about Rossi's past, in order to put him in a bad light. Is not this even a wink to the jury? My purpose is not to influence anyone, I just want to see who are the protagonists of this saga.Who really are.
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Well if you aren't the man himself you are doing a magnificent impersonation and really would Rossi tell the truth here, I think not. Anyway next week your and ele's absence or not may help settle that issue one way or the other.
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changing of scale, with passion, people can do big acts as Lone Wolf.
Often there is a network, but it is more a community, like we are, than structured military organization.
This is how thing seems to work recently with Internet, with many subjects. Even NGO and cults are surprised by they 2.0 version...
Often also the stakes of people make them commit the worst, the stronger stakes being ideology, emotion, but also sometime money and job.
I think of people who have invested money in business, time like me... beside pride, ego, network, travel...
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Well, please take a look to this document:
From the Order of California DTSC document it is clear that Cherokee Simeon Venture is responsible as much as Zeneca, from which they bought the lots. It is in fact evident from the beginning that Cherokee is one of the "Respondents". It is also state in the document that subsequent ownership changes will not release Respondents from their responsibilities (§6.25)
It was then the DTSC to stop the speculation of Cherokee. Dear Jimmy, is it pretty cheeky for you?
Yeah, the PDF has nothing that hasn't already been discussed here. Is it such a big surprise that they are liable for clean-up when they bought the site? I guess UC Berkeley are bad guys too right, since they are in the same situation?
You and ele must spend too much time together, your tricks of linking to long-winded documents with nothing in them and trying to add innuendo are transparent and boring. I'm just interested in the facts, which are very easy for anyone to find with Google. The fact is that there were never any houses built there leading to illness, which is what both you and ele claimed.
So, would you like to retract your false claim, or leave it hanging around here as a testament to your willingness to lie in your unquestioning support of Rossi?
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Yeah, the PDF has nothing that hasn't already been discussed here. Is it such a big surprise that they are liable for clean-up when they bought the site? I guess UC Berkeley are bad guys too right, since they are in the same situation?
You and ele must spend too much time together, your tricks of linking to long-winded documents with nothing in them and trying to add innuendo are transparent and boring. I'm just interested in the facts, which are very easy for anyone to find with Google. The fact is that there were never any houses built there leading to illness, which is what both you and ele claimed.
So, would you like to retract your false claim, or leave it hanging around here as a testament to your willingness to lie in your unquestioning support of Rossi?
Yeah, I've been wondering for a while why some people persist with this claim of housing built on contaminated land. The fact is that there are no houses there, so persisting with this claim makes the claimer a liar, no bones about it.
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Well if you aren't the man himself you are doing a magnificent impersonation and really would Rossi tell the truth here, I think not. Anyway next week your and ele's absence or not may help settle that issue one way or the other.
I do not have a holiday in Hawaii on my planner for the next few weeks ..... and surely I will not visit courtrooms. So we will definitely see here again.
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Well if you aren't the man himself you are doing a magnificent impersonation and really would Rossi tell the truth here, I think not. Anyway next week your and ele's absence or not may help settle that issue one way or the other.
Ele and SSC lie like Rossi: but that does not mean either is Rossi. Then again, maybe they are! there is something about the arch tone, and the blatant falsity (as noted by Jimmy above) that makes it an attractive idea: Rossi with somone correcting his grammar, though imperfectly.
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The idea of a friendless Rossi feeling obliged to extend his undoubted JoNP puppetry into this place might well amuse you, but it would be a serious mistake. Even if you don't like hin, he is a man of immense charm (when he likes) who has many friends who would take up the keyboard on his behalf - even unprompted..
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Even if you don't like hin, he is a man of immense charm (when he likes) who has many friends who would take up the keyboard on his behalf - even unprompted..
I think it takes more than charm to get others to play fake, fraudulent roles for you, such as a Nato Colonel, and JMP director/engineer. Those are verifiable, and as things develop we may add an ERV, or scientist to the list. Crazy story...so you never know.
Yes, Rossi has very loyal friends. Let us see if they take the stand for him.
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Yes, Rossi has very loyal friends. Let us see if they take the stand for him.
This is easily understood: AR is a human opposite to IH, that is a soulless investment construct. Nevertheless many people here do not hesitate to invest their loyalty ...
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Wytennbach,
I will take a soulless corporation, over a pathological liar any day!
For those of you unfamiliar with the story, that may sound a bit strong, but for those like myself who have followed Rossi for 6 1/2 years now...it is simply the truth, and undeniable. Extremely deceitful too, as one can readily observe reading his JONP, or reading the court documents. And his antics did not just start with IH, they go back to early 2011 when he gave his most ardent supporter (Kullander) salted fuel, and let him go on until his death lecturing on how Ni *may* turn to Cu in an exothermic reaction without ionizing radiation. Say what you will about IH, but they would not stoop so low as that.Oh, I could go on and on, but really, most everyone knows this stuff so I will spare you. Even those few still defending him know his shady past, and chose to stand by him anyway.
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@Alan
If you study con men, they are all charming and convincing. One can't con people by appearing shady, dishonest, and menacing!
An old classic movie about this is "House of Games" which did 96% on Rotten Tomatoes. I bet you can find it on Netflix or the like.
As for Rossi, the people who still believe him simply are not sufficiently familiar with his record or do understand the technical aspects of his claims and the evidence for their current status.
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And his antics did not just start with IH, they go back to early 2011 when he gave his most ardent supporter (Kullander) salted fuel, and let him go on until his death lecturing on how Ni *may* turn to Cu in an exothermic reaction without ionizing radiation.
Rossi's "antics" (is that a word polite enough to avoid the censors here?) started a lot earlier than that-- with the extremely costly environmental disaster of Petroldragon, illegal transactions and bankruptcies in Italy, and not to forget the fiasco when Rossi got millions of dollars from DOD/CERL based on a supposedly efficiently thermoelectric prototype that nobody saw and that Rossi could never deliver. Rossi's accomplishments date back to the 1970's and seem well summarized in this brief excerpt from a Wikiedia entry:
QuoteIn the 1970s, Rossi falsely claimed to have invented a process to convert organic waste into oil, and in 1978 he founded a company named Petroldragon to process waste. In the early 1990s, the company collapsed upon discovery that it was dumping toxic waste into the environment, and Rossi was jailed and later convicted for tax fraud and environmental crime.[4] From 2001 to 2003, Rossi worked under a U.S. Army contract to make a thermoelectric device that, while promising to be superior to other devices, produced only around 1/1000 of the claimed performance.[5][6]
In 2008, after moving to the United States, Rossi attempted to patent a device called an Energy Catalyzer (or E-Cat), which is a purported cold fusion or Low-Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) thermal power source.[7]Rossi claims that the device produces massive amounts of excess heat that can be used to produce electricity, but independent attempts to reproduce the effect have failed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Rossi_(entrepreneur)
I have no idea why anyone should befriend this man.
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MY,
Yes, I am familiar with his pre-Ecat antics too. But whenever anyone brings that up, it confuses things, so I stay away.
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Mary brings up a lot. Mostly the same stuff.
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Yes, I am familiar with his pre-Ecat antics too. But whenever anyone brings that up, it confuses things, so I stay away.
Why confusing things? Simply because some believers prefer to read Rossi by Rossi (also known as Rossifiction)? Sometimes, they'll read a Rossi web site and not even realize it's by Rossi!
QuoteMary brings up a lot. Mostly the same stuff.
You're mostly right. But I would not feel justified in doing that were it not that different people seem to get confused by the same things, over and over again. Mostly, and without realizing it, they read crap which originated with Rossi and was requoted in places like e-catworld.com or "Cold Fusion Now" and yet they believe it's authoritative.
