The Playground

Quote from Shane D.

Well, I guess I have my answer. No clients (customers) want the LT Ecat. What a surprise. Guess the planet will have to wait a few more years to be QuarkX saved vs LT Ecat saved. There is a difference!

1. Obro July 9, 2017 at 3:02 PM

   Dear Dr. Rossi,

   What are your plans for the regular e-cat(not the QuarkX)?

   
   Do you still intend to produce it, and if yes, would it be this year?

   Kindest regards,

   
   Obro

2. Andrea Rossi July 9, 2017 at 3:55 PM

   Obro:

   
   The matter of the fact is that our Clients are all waiting for the E-Cat in the QX version.

   
   We will go where the market will want us to go.

   
   Warm Regards,

   
   A.R.

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The Low temperature E-Cat is always in danger of melting down whereas the QuarkX is not. The COP on the QuarkZ is far higher than the LT E-Cat. I advise all who what to replicated the Rossi tech to use the QuarkX approach. The LT Ecat is inferior to the QuarkX.

By the way, what has happened to the SunCell?

To continue the discussion, you might say, "okay, maybe corporate CEOs tend to be scientific illiterates, but surely they have topnotch scientists on staff who can evaluate cold fusion." Indeed they do! I have read these staff reports. Unfortunately, these scientists have read nothing about cold fusion. They have no idea what instruments are used, what results are obtained, or what conclusions have been reached. Their evaluations are similar to what a scientist might have written in 1908: "the Wright brother's claims cannot be true because no one knows how to make an anti-gravity machine."

I have heard comments on cold fusion by Nobel laureate physicists in charge of the DoE and other illustrious grand pooh-bahs of science. They know a lot about a lot, but when it comes to cold fusion, they don't know shit from shinola. Unfortunately, they do not realize that they know nothing. They assume the mass media reports are correct and there were no replications and there is no literature, so they never even look for papers.

The CEOs are worse about not knowing their own limitations. J. Cleese of Cornell U. explained this:

Mary wrote "@Admins I wish you had not suspended ele "

I agree and think ele deserves at least the same leeway granted to Dewey. I won't say more for risk of being banned myself but his/her participation is most entertaining.

Moved from the "believers" thread. Eric

Jed, the notion that cold fusion is the playground of frauds, lunatics and criminals is one that has been greatly aided by the activities of Rossi. If there is any hope for the reputation of the field, it has been set back tremendously by Rossi. And until the past year or so, the community seemed to be pretty supportive of Rossi, defending even his most absurd claims. I suppose it seemed disloyal to LENR (whatever the hell that means) to attack the most visible actor on the stage. But eventually people started to come to their senses. At this point, the community can be fairly accurately bifurcated. If you still believe in Rossi, you are probably a crackpot. If you don't, you probably aren't. Nothing personal, folks, but if after all that has gone on over the past 6 years you STILL think that Rossi is a genius inventor instead of a con man, you need the proverbial checkup from the neck up.

As for your assessment of how the science establishment and media affect how new technology is pursued by society, I am not sure I can completely agree. It is probably true in the aggregate, but there have to be more enlightened or more intelligent entities here and there. The world is not monolithic even if it is to a large extent made up of a bunch of idiots who can't see the big picture. In any case, I wish the sincere researchers in the field the best of luck. I may not think they will get anywhere, but it is insane to hope that they don't.

Quote from interested observer

Jed, the notion that cold fusion is the playground of frauds, lunatics and criminals is one that has been greatly aided by the activities of Rossi. If there is any hope for the reputation of the field, it has been set back tremendously by Rossi. And until the past year or so, the community seemed to be pretty supportive of Rossi, defending even his most absurd claims. I suppose it seemed disloyal to LENR (whatever the hell that means) to attack the most visible actor on the stage. But eventually people started to come to their senses. At this point, the community can be fairly accurately bifurcated. If you still believe in Rossi, you are probably a crackpot. If you don't, you probably aren't. Nothing personal, folks, but if after all that has gone on over the past 6 years you STILL think that Rossi is a genius inventor instead of a con man, you need the proverbial checkup from the neck up.

As for your assessment of how the science establishment and media affect how new technology is pursued by society, I am not sure I can completely agree. It is probably true in the aggregate, but there have to be more enlightened or more intelligent entities here and there. The world is not monolithic even if it is to a large extent made up of a bunch of idiots who can't see the big picture. In any case, I wish the sincere researchers in the field the best of luck. I may not think they will get anywhere, but it is insane to hope that they don't.

That is a fair point. It is why as Abd has reasonably pointed out the LENR community should be highly skeptical and require a high quality of proof. Nothing else suffices in this area where the temptation to believe what would be wonderful is so high, and there can be people like Rossi who exploit that.

LENR community should be clearly aligned with IH standard of proof post the Rossi breakup, rather than IH standard of proof before that. You remember the PR.

Leaders should be coming out and noting as unsubstantiated all weird unsubstantiated claims, like BG's Signal, or any Rossi control the conditions demo. Saying, "well, it needs further work, but it could be very interesting", is an emphasis that allows short-term interest to blossom while killing long-term credibility.

Of course I'm not that familiar with what they say - i'm sure some of them do exactly that. It does not much filter through to here.

Regards, THH

Quote from interested observer

Jed, the notion that cold fusion is the playground of frauds, lunatics and criminals is one that has been greatly aided by the activities of Rossi.

That is true. However, the claims of fraud and lunacy were made by plasma fusion scientists at MIT in 1989 within hours of the announcement. The claims were repeated by Robert Park in the Washington Post and elsewhere, by Nature, the New Scientist and by the people quoted in the document. That was long before Rossi came on the scene.

In any case, I do not see what you expect the researchers to do about this. Most of them are dead, so they have no means to repudiate Rossi. For that matter, I do not see what you expect me to do about it. I have -- shall we say -- strongly denounced Rossi and pointed out that his own data in the Penon report is fake. That information does not penetrate the minds of people on Planet Rossi. It is like water off a duck's back. The proof is as invisible to them as Rossi's heat exchanger was to a camera.

(I do suspect that if the strong supporters here were given an opportunity to invest $1,000 in Rossi's next scam, they would suddenly feel a degree of skepticism they have not admitted to so far.)

Quote from THHuxleynew

LENR community should be highly skeptical and require a high quality of proof.

Hello again boys,

I had fun following all the discussions during the trial. But because there was an ongoing trial I preferred not to post.

Dear THH, who set the standard of a proof ?

A group of University Professors is not sufficient for you ?

And other researchers like e.g. Piantelli, Celani, Focardi or Arata have not a sufficient standard ?

Seems that all this people put their name, their lives and their careers on stake and end to be judged not by peer but by anonymous posters who, in many cases, are not expert of the matter.

There is already so much skepticism around LENR now there will be also the LENR skeptical over LENR.

Quote from interested observer

As for your assessment of how the science establishment and media affect how new technology is pursued by society, I am not sure I can completely agree.

From your previous comments, it was clear that you have not read the history of cold fusion. You have not read the original source documents by the people who attacked cold fusion in 1989, or the researchers who defended their claims. You seem to have no knowledge of this history. So of course you cannot "completely agree"! A person cannot agree or disagree about a claim he knows nothing about. Read some books. Read original source documents. When you have some knowledge, then you will have the right to an opinion.

You resemble Axil who blathers on and on about Rossi's claims without actually reading them or knowing anything about them. A fact that he brags about! Perhaps, since you are not him, you can see that he is making a fool of himself?

At this point you have only a few fragmentary messages from me, and one old document from Mallove. That hardly constitutes proof of anything. If you would believe or disbelieve such important claims based on these few fragments, or -- worse by far -- based on the blather and nonsense in Wikipedia, you are not serious.

Jed, I don't expect you or the researchers to do anything in particular. You bemoan the lack of respect the field gets and the only way I can see for that to change at all is for its most visible participants to police its public face by denouncing obvious nonsense like Rossi's activities. As THH said, if the community itself is not highly skeptical and works to distance itself from charlatans and lunatics, then it will remain an object of ridicule.

Quote from randombit0

Dear THH, who set the standard of a proof ?

A group of University Professors is not sufficient for you ?

The Penon report was resounding proof. No one needs to look any further. It left no doubt that Rossi is fraud and the 1-year test was crude mock up that did not fool any sensible observer.

You can't ask for more sufficient proof than this. The fact that it came directly from Rossi makes it unimpeachable. The fact that he later made up the lie about the invisible heat exchanger proves that he himself agrees the Penon report was fraudulent.

Quote from JedRothwell

I have heard comments on cold fusion by Nobel laureate physicists in charge of the DoE and other illustrious grand pooh-bahs of science. They know a lot about a lot, but when it comes to cold fusion, they don't know shit from shinola. Unfortunately, they do not realize that they know nothing. They assume the mass media reports are correct and there were no replications and there is no literature, so they never even look for papers.

Jed we should conclude that you are much better then the Nobel Laureate Physicist of the DoE.

There was also a Nobel Laureate that was positive about LENR.

I don't think that they really take the mass media reports as correct and for sure they don't look in this forum......

Be more specific. What comment regarding what ? I'm not asking who but just what.

Quote from interested observer

Jed, I don't expect you or the researchers to do anything in particular.

That's decent of you. Since they are dead, it would be an imposition to demand they do anything, I should think.

Quote from interested observer

You bemoan the lack of respect the field gets and the only way I can see for that to change at all is for its most visible participants to police its public face by denouncing obvious nonsense like Rossi's activities.

The visible participants I know (that is, people still breathing) denounced Rossi. Am I visible? Do you accuse me of not denouncing Rossi? I can't imagine what else I might have said to denounce him, or how I might have put it more strongly.

Quote from JedRothwell

The Penon report was resounding proof. No one needs to look any further. It left no doubt that Rossi is fraud and the 1-year test was crude mock up that did not fool any sensible observer.

You can't ask for more sufficient proof than this. The fact that it came directly from Rossi makes it unimpeachable. The fact that he later made up the lie about the invisible heat exchanger proves that he himself agrees the Penon report was fraudulent.

I don't agree with you. On my opinion you are completely wrong. And the proof is in the facts.

If Penon reports was so bad why IH had come to a settlement ?

If the fraud was so evident why IH has not won the trial and taken back all the money from Rossi ?

Maybe you are the only person that see in such an evident way that the Penon report was bad.

Quote from randombit0

Jed we should conclude that you are much better then the Nobel Laureate Physicist of the DoE.

Anyone who has read a few papers on cold fusion knows better than those people.

Quote from randombit0

There was also a Nobel Laureate that was positive about LENR.

Yes. There were three. I worked with two of them. I am well acquainted with their views. But that has nothing to do with Rossi. He is not doing cold fusion. He is engaged in fraud and extortion.

Quote from randombit0

I don't think that they really take the mass media reports as correct and for sure they don't look in this forum......

I wouldn't take mass media reports as correct either. I judge things by original source documents. That is why I know that Rossi is a fraud. You can tell from his own report, authored by his lapdog Penon.

What is your point?

Quote from JedRothwell

The visible participants I know (that is, people still breathing) denounced Rossi.

Is there any people not breathing here ? I hope not !

I see many attacking Rossi, but, interesting to say, they appear connected in some way to IH,

Also the attacks are quite generic and in the form "As is well known and evident Rossi/Penon is/are the fraudolent." But without any real proof.

If the proof were there then IH should had won the trial without any settlement.

Quote from randombit0

I don't agree with you. On my opinion you are completely wrong.

Then you do not understand elementary science or the laws of thermodynamcs, and your opinion is worthless. Rossi himself tacitly agreed that his own report was worthless. That is why he invented the new lie about the invisible heat exchanger.

Quote from randombit0

If Penon reports was so bad why IH had come to a settlement ?

I have no idea. That has no bearing on thermodynamics. If you want to understand why the Penon report violates the laws, read Smith's reports.

Quote from randombit0

Maybe you are the only person that see in such an evident way that the Penon report was bad.

Nope. Every competent person I know who has read it agreed with me, starting with Murray and Smith. They described their reasons in detail. You can go to the court docket and read what they have to say. I am sure you will have no rebuttal or reason to doubt them. No one on Planet Rossi has given any reason to doubt them. They only say the sort of thing you just said: "it is my opinion" or "nobody agrees with you" or, as Axil says, "I refuse to look at the evidence."

Quote from JedRothwell

But that has nothing to do with Rossi. He is not doing cold fusion. He is engaged in fraud and extortion.

I was speaking in general not about Rossi.

If you are so sure that Rossi is a Criminal why FBI had not got him ? Why don't you go to FBI and denounce him.

Why IH has not denounced him ?

Quote from maryyugo

@Admins I wish you had not suspended ele

Quote from andrea.s

I agree and think ele deserves at least the same leeway granted to Dewey. I won't say more for risk of being banned myself but his/her participation is most entertaining.

I take that back. We have Randombit0 again!