The Playground

  • Alan Smith

    It could be that he simply doesn't want to bear the responsibility, but I'm only speculating. Either way, I have long suspected that at least until his daughter takes over, there won't be any relevant news from Nichenergy; hopefully his research work won't get sealed for 50 years like Ken Shoulders'.

  • Sometimes it takes 50 years before anyone see it. The 37 or so that post in here and the time it takes to agree on anything may make the use of the internet just as bad as paper.


    post or paper, if this is video- idea is helpfull to bring new ideas to the table, it may still take 50 years before attempting it. Put the idea to the test~


  • Speaking of Piantelli on another thread; I can not think of a more important person to be interviewed by Ruby. He is up there in age, been pursuing LENR for 28 years, and a wealth of practical and theoretical knowledge. It would be such a loss were he to go and take much of that knowledge with him. Yes, most of that information will be retained for the next generation through his meeting with MFMP, patents, Nichenergy partners, and family, but sometimes interviews bring the little things out that count.


    Anyone know if Nichenergy is still funded, and active?

    I inquired about Piantelli at ICCF. He is still alive, but in poor respiratory health. Apparently he no longer goes to his lab and has no protégé to carry on his work. Nichenergy will get the patents, but without a protégé, his technology may be lost. MFMP was only told the basics of his older stuff. It would be wonderful if Ruby could get an in depth interview, but he doesn't speak English, and is super-sensitive to his image. These both conspire to make video interviews problematic.

  • I inquired about Piantelli at ICCF. He is still alive, but in poor respiratory health. Apparently he no longer goes to his lab and has no protégé to carry on his work. Nichenergy will get the patents, but without a protégé, his technology may be lost. MFMP was only told the basics of his older stuff. It would be wonderful if Ruby could get an in depth interview, but he doesn't speak English, and is super-sensitive to his image. These both conspire to make video interviews problematic.


    BH,


    Hopefully what you heard is wrong. Piantelli was the first to stumble upon the NiH effect, and dedicated his life since to developing it. He paid the price for his conviction...like the other early CF pioneers, but persevered. After all he went through, and how successful he claimed to be, it would surprise me if he has not made some better arrangement for his work to survive him. It would also surprise me if his backers at Nichenergy -who will retain control now that he is no longer active, have not taken active measures to protect their technology, and investment.


    If not, unfortunately it would not be the first time LENR has lost promising technology to poor estate planning.

  • BH,


    Hopefully what you heard is wrong. Piantelli was the first to stumble upon the NiH effect, and dedicated his life since to developing it. He paid the price for his conviction...like the other early CF pioneers, but persevered. After all he went through, and how successful he claimed to be, it would surprise me if he has not made some better arrangement for his work to survive him. It would also surprise me if his backers at Nichenergy -who will retain control now that he is no longer active, have not taken active measures to protect their technology, and investment.


    If not, unfortunately it would not be the first time LENR has lost promising technology to poor estate planning.


    I have a different view of the situation. From what I've read of Bob Greenyer's comments on Piantelli, he is an extremely cautious, conservative scientist with an extreme distaste for risk -- experiments which could potentially come with a safety hazard. To put this simply, he isn't a researcher who would work to scale up their output rapidly to make their technology industrially useful and economically viable. My opinion is that once someone through practice and trial and error becomes adequately skilled in the art to achieve the Ni-H results Piantelli and Focardi achieved, pushing beyond is fairly strait forward. Actually, there are a series of routes that can be chosen from that, in my opinion, all will eventually lead to plasma-enhanced reactors.


    Me356 studied Piantelli's and Focardi's work in detail before he made any claims of anomalous results. Later, he claimed that studying these results and following the guidelines provided in their papers and test reports were critical to laying a foundation that could be built upon (not exactly these words). The problem is that even performing a series of tests to replicate Piantelli and Focardi's experiments would be too much work, take too much time, and cost too much (relatively speaking) for most researchers.

  • Alan Smith

    It could be that he simply doesn't want to bear the responsibility, but I'm only speculating. Either way, I have long suspected that at least until his daughter takes over, there won't be any relevant news from Nichenergy; hopefully his research work won't get sealed for 50 years like Ken Shoulders'.


    The essence of Ken Shoulders technology is available online for those who are willing to dig in this forum: an abundance of documents are available that describe various test setups. However, I think to gain a better grasp of Ken Shoulder's technology one should also study the phenomenon of spheromaks. Basically, an EVO is a very small -- hence extremely energy dense -- spheromak (a torodial vortex of electrons and positive ions capable of inducing a variety of anomalous phenomenon).

  • I have a different view of the situation. From what I've read of Bob Greenyer's comments on Piantelli, he is an extremely cautious, conservative scientist with an extreme distaste for risk -- experiments which could potentially come with a safety hazard. To put this simply, he isn't a researcher who would work to scale up their output rapidly to make their technology industrially useful and economically viable. My opinion is that once someone through practice and trial and error becomes adequately skilled in the art to achieve the Ni-H results Piantelli and Focardi achieved, pushing beyond is fairly strait forward. Actually, there are a series of routes that can be chosen from that, in my opinion, all will eventually lead to plasma-enhanced reactors.


    Me356 studied Piantelli's and Focardi's work in detail before he made any claims of anomalous results. Later, he claimed that studying these results and following the guidelines provided in their papers and test reports were critical to laying a foundation that could be built upon (not exactly these words). The problem is that even performing a series of tests to replicate Piantelli and Focardi's experiments would be too much work, take too much time, and cost too much (relatively speaking) for most researchers.


    Piantelli is set to take his technology to the grave, and Rossi is an outright fraud. Debating who deserves credit for Ni-H LENR, seems as productive as the Titanic crew arguing over the deck chair arrangements as the ship went down. Throwing me356 into the mix, just adds to the irony.


    I think LENR is better than this.

  • Debating Ni-H isn't productive at all. You are absolutely correct. Actually, discussing me356 isn't productive either. What's really productive is what most of us don't have the resources to do: run real experiments. Testing, continual cycles of repeated testing, is what really matters. I think sharing thoughts and ideas on this forum may be a hair more productive that watching paint dry, but not much more. Sadly, for those of us with little to no life who long to see breakthroughs happen that could change the world in positive and significant ways, typing up posts on here can provide a little relief like an emergency pressure relief valve.


    LENR is better, in my opinion. However, as a whole, people aren't. LENR is ripe for the taking, but our so called "community" cannot seem to work together well enough to grab this relatively low hanging fruit. I think that's a problem in a field where a lot of people have a lot of different ideas about a topic which is poorly understood.

  • Debating Ni-H isn't productive at all.


    (Li)-Ni-H LENR is way more demanding than any XY-D-D fusion approach as the output energy of Ni-H LENR is damaging hard. I wouldn't have high expectations for Ni-H, even if somebody promises a solution. Already tomorrow there could be the next problem. Of course (Li)-Ni-H LENR works, but to get a stable reactor for hours/days/months a lot of work is needed.

  • Why would anyone do that [take it to the grave] with anything that actually worked?

    I do not know why people do that, but they often do. Patterson probably did. Fleischmann took many of his secrets with him, as you see in his letters to Miles and to me. This happens with cold fusion and with many other conventional inventions, products, business methods, horticulture, and every other field I know of. To take a famous example, the Wright brothers compiled superb wind tunnel data in 1901 and 1902. They discussed it with Chanute and sent him some samples. He made some corrections. They used this data to design the wings and propellers of their airplane. After they became famous, they said they would publish it, but they never did. Others did not produce data as good as this until the 1920s, so it would have been helpful during WWI. Samples were published after Orville died.


    Here is a sample data table and graph:


    https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k…lane/wrights/results.html


    People take secrets to the grave, and corporations often keep secrets until they are forgotten or useless. Xerox kept their technology more or less under wraps even after Steve Jobs stole it.

  • Technically Piantelli is not taking it to the grave, because from what we heard he plans on leaving whatever he has to his children. That to me, is little better than taking it to the grave. I read somewhere recently, how difficult it is to replicate another researchers work by following written instructions only. The inventor often has to be there to teach the little techniques that make it work, or explain what this or that lab note means.


    Too bad Piantelli decided not to take MFMP under his wing when they came to him for help. He could have taught them the magic touch. and by doing so ensure his work would live on.

  • Quote

    Not all. Arata was very sick for many years, and very old. He must have known he would die. But as far as I know he remained uncooperative and secretive to the end.


    Do you have any insights into his motivation? Didn't he have associates or students who knew what he knew? (at least collectively)

  • Do you have any insights into his motivation?

    He was a difficult person to know. He was a flaming egomaniac. The worst I have ever met. He distributed an elaborate book with 4-color separation glossy paper describing his accomplishments, and illustrating his awards and patents. He was a tyrant with his grad students. Decades later, when they were middle aged professors, he yelled and abused them in my presence, and with national mass media people standing right there. He was an extreme right wing nationalist, in favor of Emperor Worship. He made several lurid YouTube videos of himself extolling the glories of the Imperial Japanese system, and bashing communism, featuring intros with Mt. Fuji and cherry blossoms and the Japanese national anthem right out of 1940. He hung around with creepy lowlifes who claimed on video they were assaulted and were in gang fights with communists. There are a lot of right-wing hoodlums like that in Japan. When I lived there, they used to dress up in WWII uniforms and drive trucks around with loudspeakers blasting nationalist propaganda, intimidating the neighborhood and reportedly collecting protection money from local businesses to shut up and go away.


    All that would be insufferable, and he would be a nobody, except that he actually did accomplish a tremendous amount. He won many distinguished awards, including two from the previous and present Emperor. They named an international prize after him, and while he was still alive they named a building after him on the campus at Osaka National U. I have never heard of a building named after a living person at a national university. All these awards were richly deserved.


    I do not think he made a lot of money because he did all of this as a national university professor, which is like working for the DoD and inventing the internet. You are paid well but you get no intellectual property.


    So I would say he was motivated by curiosity and academic rivalry. In my experience, there is no group of people more cutthroat, more willing to hide data, steal ideas, and ruin other scientists' reputations more than academic scientists.


    Didn't he have associates or students who knew what he knew? (at least collectively)

    Mainly Chinese people. His main co-author is Chinese, Yue-Chang Zhang. I think she retired to the U.S. (She told me she hoped to.) The others in his lab were all Chinese as far as I know. (The ones listed in his papers are.) They have not revealed anything to the Japanese scientists as far as I know. They speak excellent Japanese, which is how I spoke with them and communicated with them by e-mail. It is ironic that Arata was wildly anti-communist, yet his staff and funding appeared to be coming from Beijing.


    He did not tell the other Japanese researchers how to make the material in the cell. I guess they reverse engineered it. They said something like that. Anyway, if anyone knows how to make it, and if anyone has samples, it would be the people in China.


  • http://news.newenergytimes.net/


    Krivit continues on his campaign to bring transparency to the hot fusion industry. Not so easy to do as his series of articles show, and especially obvious in reading the new one. ITER is a huge bureaucratic behemoth https://www.iter.org/ with tentacles dug deep within its 35 member countries. As with any bureaucracy, finding someone to answer a journalist's uncomfortable questions (Krivit's specialty) is not so easy a task as one would think.


    I wish him good luck in achieving his objectives. Maybe after he defeats the HF monster, he will decide to get back to investigating it's little brother CF.