Rossi: “Steam Was Superheated” in 1MW Plant Test

    Looking at Dewey's reply it looks like my "condensor after measurement" schematic is too complex and quite unnecessary. The temperaure for 1016hPa from the table is 100.3C, so if Rossi really has 100.1C output difficult for him to claim it is steam especially because the primary loop pressure is unlikely to be the same as atmospheric. At very least it will have a pressure gradient due to the pump.


    But the condensor idea means Rossi could have apparent 100% vapour on output of e-cats but still be providing pure liquid phase water to the output.

    Thomas - Looking at your chart and assuming sea level for Miami pressure, would you mind sharing what temps/pressures would be needed within the 1MW system for superheated steam to be produced?


    I'll see what can find out about the steam traps.

    Quote

    Hi Alain. The period between Lugano and the creation of the Miami Monster Machine was a busy one. A number of reactors were built and tested in Raleigh. And I am pretty sure that at least one of the 250k modules must have been test run there. But we have never heard much -in fact nothing- at all about this period.


    Suppose these machines are built, and tested the way Rossi recommends, they seem to work. IH maybe have an independent engineer (not a UoB Rossi long collaborator) who claims this method is wrong and thinks these machines do not work.


    What would you, as Darden, do? You are still hoping that Rossi IP is worth something, and will be transferred. After all, any 100% provable LENR, even COP=1.1 with bulletproof calorimetry, will make a major change to the world and unlock massive investment to commercialise. So your choices:
    (1) Do nothing while working as hard as possible to resolve the technical issues and get the reactor working to the satisfaction of an independent engineer. Let Rossi go ahead with the test because making a fuss will alienate him and prevent any possible Ip transfer in the case that Rossi does have something worth that $11M. If you get this before the test end, or if the test really works, all is good.
    (2) Make a fuss, stop the test, have Rossi do a public "IH are snakes and have backed out of the agreement" thing.
    (3) Make some public statement about "we are not sure how well Rossi's stuff works"?


    If I were Darden, and I believed LENR was real, then (1) would be the only feasible option...

    Quote

    If I were Darden, and I believed LENR was real,



    I have extremely good news for you Thomas! You do not need put all those hours into this anymore. Free up some time, maybe cook a nice dinner for you family instead? You do not need to convince Darden LENR does not exist and that all the measurements ever made on every device was made by incompetent fools.


    IH do not plan to argue about the ERV report, so why do you? They do not even plan to argue about the Lugano Report, so why do you? They plan to go with the "lenr-against-the-LAW" hot fusion crowd instead. As some physisist said; LENR is impossible and against the "law" - and if it works anyway it should be made illegal. You can use that argument if you like ...

    Thomas - Thank you for the questions and thoughts. Rossi doesn't realize that the paid-up license agreement is enforceable no matter what the outcome of his poorly written and filed litigation may be.
    Rossi has a limited amount of time to make good on his license agreement and terms of proof of IP transfer will not be determined by him. His problems will soon increase by at least an order of magnitude if he does not figure this out in the very near future.

    Sifferkoll - It is so thoughtful that you are concerned about how Thomas uses his time. From where do get your latest revelation? Are there new guidelines for today's PR war battle plan?


    You're on such thin ice that you've proven there is no gravity on P.R.


    BTW, keep it all coming pls but perhaps you should get a refresher from Chap 5, Articles 1 thru 3 for the Swedish Criminal Code.

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    Sifferkoll - It is so thoughtful that you are concerned about how Thomas uses his time. From where do get your latest revelation? Are there new guidelines for today's PR war battle plan?


    You're on such thin ice that you've proven there is no gravity on…


    Making threats again are we Dewey? You like that, dont you? Gets you going, eh? As you know I have merely been asking question and making comments on stuff you said. Maybe using a colorful language sometimes, but that is about it. Especially since I recieve more or less the same treatment regularely.


    I notice though that you actually bothered to find the parts of "brottsbalken" that covers "ärekränkning" which in itself makes your threat more serious. Maybe not stand alone since I know the laws intention does not cover this, but in combination with knowing the connections I've been unfolding between IH and big dark entities, I can not totally ignore it. Which I suppose is the desired effect. So you win, Dewey. You win. Your threatening tactic is working. But it does also show exactly what kind of person you are ...


    Although, more than anything you prove my points. Accusing me for slandering you Mr Weaver would be the irony the century looking back on the last five years of Rossi slandering fest ...


    http://www.sifferkoll.se/siffe…ions-and-inconsistencies/

    Quote


    Thomas - Looking at your chart and assuming sea level for Miami pressure, would you mind sharing what temps/pressures would be needed within the 1MW system for superheated steam to be produced?


    I think you need a proper steam engineer for this, + knowledge of the system. The problem is that the tables only work for equilibrium. Now we have water being pumped through the heater at a decent rate and no guarantee that what is measured is actually the real water temperature rather than the pipe temperature. However if the water temperature is precisely measured then that table will work, and the answer will depend on the primary circuit pressure. This could be very low, or up to 3 atmospheres without any issues - much higher with plumbing designed for it. It is unlikely to be zero because heating the primary circuit would normally increase its pressure.

    Quote from sifferkoll

    I have extremely good news for you Thomas! You do not need put all those hours into this anymore. Free up some time, maybe cook a nice dinner for you family instead? You do not need to convince Darden LENR does not exist and that all the measurements ever made on every device was made by incompetent fools.


    IH do not plan to argue about the ERV report, so why do you? They do not even plan to argue about the Lugano Report, so why do you? They plan to go with the "lenr-against-the-LAW" hot fusion crowd instead. As some physisist said; LENR is impossible and against the "law" - and if it works anyway it should be made illegal. You can use that argument if you like ...




    Why, in the name of the Big Blue Billygoat, would IH or anyone else throw 10 million bucks at LENR when their intention all the time was to rubbish it?


    I detect a degree of shark-jumping here!

    Quote from "Nigel"

    Why, in the name of the Big Blue Billygoat, would IH or anyone else throw 10 million bucks at LENR when their intention all the time was to rubbish it?


    Of course that was not the plan at the time. Only recently they made the conclusion that it is the best way to get out of this mess. They need to put 100% of the blame on Rossi and paint themselves as somewhat foolish but good people. That is my hypthesis anyway, which is somewhat confirmed by Weaver's statements as well.

    Quote

    Blame for what?


    Take a really wild guess. Use the experience of all hours spent on twisting this subjuct ad infinitum... Then maybe you imagination could produce an answer. Of course. I might have overestimated you...

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    Thomas - Thank you for the questions and thoughts. Rossi doesn't realize that the paid-up license agreement is enforceable no matter what the outcome of his poorly written and filed litigation may be.
    Rossi has a limited amount of time to make good on his license agreement and terms of proof of IP transfer will not be determined by him. His problems will soon increase by at least an order of magnitude if he does not figure this out in the very near future.


    Dewey, I know you cannot answer directly pretrial, but doesn't this your statement imply that IH is believing in LENR and E-Cat being able to produce extra heat? Why would there be IP to transfer if E-cat doesn't work?


    That would be good news, since actually we all here are on same side - want better world with the help of LENR.

    Quote

    Dewey, I know you cannot answer directly pretrial, but doesn't this your statement imply that IH is believing in LENR and E-Cat being able to produce extra heat? Why would there be IP to transfer if E-cat doesn't work?That would be good news, since actually we all here are on same side - want better world with the help of LENR.


    IH can hope for Rossi's IP to be worth something - even for it to be worth a lot. There seems to be an idea that either IH are sure Rossi's stuff works, or sure that he is fraudulent and it does not work. But the three things:


    (1) Rossi's stuff works as claimed
    (2) Rossi is not fraudulent
    (3) Rossi's stuff exhibits some kind of LENR


    are all independent in the case that (1) is false. If (1) is true then (2) and (3) obviously follow.


    So if Rossi's stuff does not work he could be fraudulent and also nevertheless have valuable IP. IH may know (2) - or claim this for the court case even if not certain. I don't see how they can know (3) without complete technology transfer, and without Rossi's full cooperation they cannot be sure they have got this.

    Hi folks .. I'm mostly active on vortex -- and have extensively analyzed the ecat at http://lenr.qumbu.com

    My earlier analysis of steam quality (mostly for the original and fatcat ecats) is at http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_frames_v410H.php


    In particular, I developed a steam quality calculator : http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plot&ever=d&efzx0=0&efzy0=0&efzx9=9&efzy9=9&esl=1&epbr=1&enm=1MW+36m%5E3++60C+inlet+1+bar&edh=0&edm=0&eds=1&eif=0.41&eip=1000&ecp=0&eop=1000&eoxr=1&et0=20&ep0=1&et1=60&ep2=1&er2=2


    This is set to the water throughput 36m^3 per day, 60C inlet temperature, as Mats Lewan reported in his interview with Rossi. Unfortunately the internal pressure and steam quality were not reported. I set the pressure to 1 bar.


    Rossi has subsequently said (as per the title of this thread) that the steam WAS superheated ... although this would not give optimal heat transfer.


    In short : the information given by Rossi is consistent with 1MW output, but doesn't prove it.
    (In another post I showed that venting 1MW requires a 30K CFM fan, and that the 50-inch roof fan is large enough to accomodate this).


    With respect to IH and the contract? They signed a contract which says that if the ERV signs off on guaranteed performance (which merely says greater than 100C output, with no mention of steam quality), they pay -- with no options for reviewing his report. That's nuts.


    Bottom line : I think it's likely that Rossi does have what he says he has. I have seen NO evidence that shows conclusively that he does not.


    We'll just have to wait for IH's response (which might just say "we dispute this" to every one of Rossi's accusations.) After that's filed there will be a mandatory settlement conference ... then followed by disclosure and depostions that we might or might not see.



    Quote from "clarke"

    So if Rossi's stuff does not work he could be fraudulent and also nevertheless have valuable IP


    Wow! Amazing IH defense logic (send them an invoice promptly - you deserve it)... You really needed to push to get that one out!!! In Sweden we would call it "slå knut på sig själv". I dont know but maybe - tie oneself in knots - is a close translation, but I dont think if it says it all really ...

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    Abd nails another one! Patents are filed in various forms as a hedging strategy all the time. If you're wrong or the filing doesn't pan out then it is a simple correction and / or adjustment.


    The idea that there is something sinister about IH patent filings is a mark of having believed Rossi's apparent paranoia.


    One may file a patent for just about any reason, and investors are always properly cautioned that patents mean nothing about the credibility of a claim. that a patent has been granted doesn't indicate that the claim has any value at all.


    Patents indicate some level of seriousness about claims, because fees are paid, but one could file a patent, for example, to send competition down an expensive blind alley. It could be total deception. It's legal.


    The earlier Rossi patents that I saw were obviously worthless, because they omitted essential details necessary to make the invention work. However, that could be remedied during the process.


    "Patent" and "secret sauce" are intrinsically contradictory.


    If anyone is interested in the patent situation here, read http://www.infinite-energy.com…ustrial-heat-lawsuit.html
    One comment from French there about certrain aspects of the Rossi complaint:

    Quote

    These allegations are so ill-conceived that it’s almost an embarrassment to criticize them.


    My own reaction to the complaint when I read it, and this impression has remained through many re-readings, is that Rossi went to an attorney and ranted, and the attorney wrote it all down and made it into a complaint, without acting as an advisor, because it was, in my view, crafted to lose. The complaint led my Bayesian expectation of Rossi having a working reactor, with significant reliability, to plummet. It made clear to me a possible hypothesis that I had mostly paid little attention to, that Rossi might be literally insane. I cannot imagine a legal advisor advising Rossi to file it as it was. The filing was actually a day before the period to pay expired. What a responsible lawyer might have said would be "Let me talk to them!"


    And in the past, I've dealt with plaintiffs who then told their lawyer, "No! Don't talk to them!" So the lawyer didn't talk, and the complaint was filed, and went down in flames. Then the lawyer was allowed to talk with me, we came up with a negotiated solution, which was what I'd have agreed to in the first place with no lawyers involved.


    Crazy plaintiffs lose their money, usually.


    In one of these cases, the legal firm later became a customer of mine, and one day, in their office, one of them started to say, "You know, in that case, I think we were on the wrong ..." and his partner interrupted him. For obvious reasons. But I knew it already. Very nice people, actually.

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