How to Avoid a 1989 Cold Fusion Repeat in 2016

    • Official Post

    [feedquote='E-Cat World','http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/05/26/how-to-avoid-a-1989-cold-fusion-repeat-in-2016/']The rise and fall of cold fusion after Pons and Fleischmann introduced it to the world in 1989 has been discussed at length over the years and the details don’t need to be rehearsed here. It was a dramatic process that played out on the world stage which resulted in the lasting impact of driving […][/feedquote]

    • Official Post

    or any working technology by any group correctly replicated and measured.


    there is room for Brillouin and Lenuco, if Parkhomov-style replicators cannot confirm current interesting results with stone-proof calorimetry (one that @Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax can support).

  • I also think that successful independent replication made by trusted lab and measurements or real product in market long enough to prove savings in practice.
    I have to add that if we dont do any watchdogging of possible smudge campaigns that some competing interest groups might activate, investments goes to other reasearch than LENR. Can that be prevented by posting corrections on false statements is something that might not totally change things, but keeps minds more open for final proof. (being silent could lead F&P -89 replay in worst case).


    Bit off topic, but Has Bob Greenyer reported anything new about me356 or has he visited him/her again as was planned last week? I might have missed new info. (latest I heard that it was postponed because of me356 sickness). If me356 claims are true, they together could bring in quite strong proof, but I understand me356:s position and it might be best path he chose to take.

    • Official Post

    I am not afraid of the smear campaign by economic actors, provided they have access to the technology themselves.
    Experience in LENr shows that industry, especially oil industry, is open minded and accepting scientific data, unlike academic, journalists, politicians, NGO, religions.
    If LENr is proven reasonably for engineers (like what JF Geneste have proposed for the LENR Challenge) then the opposition will not be "it is not real", nor even hiding it.


    There will be many moves.
    One will be to adapt their organization to LENR, even awkwardly (in french we say Bourrage, like using Internet to propose Minitel service, or LENR to pump oil).
    One will be to create open innovation accelerators (like Shell Gamechanger, STNewVenture, Airbus Innovation) .
    One will be to try to capture the technology... it cannot work as no single patent can block all. LENR Revolution will be open, like Internet.


    However I expect NGO, religions, malthusianist and catastrophist ideology groups, big physics, big science, UNO bodies, academic, some anti-growth economists, that are endangered by cornucopean revolution, to spread FUD not on the reality but on the adverse effects of LENR.


    We are far from there.
    Today we have :
    - a pile of good science (some less good) at lab scale with PdD
    - a pile of loose evidence, of NDA science, about NiH
    - a pile of heavily criticized theories


    the main problem today are :
    - the good science is ignored, as it is old and always have been ignored, and as people invoke a all-mighty undescribed generic artifact that explains all.
    - many innovators in LENR go dark or diva-style when they have good results
    - recent LENR experimenters at in the beginning of the learning curve.

  • Hi Argon


    No new news from ME356 - BobG still hasn't visited.


    Something tells me we aren't going to hear too much more from ME356. I mean no disrespect if he truly is ill, but one must admit the timing is impeccable for him to make huge claims of evidence of "Rossi Effect", speak of likely secrecy, then go silent due to illness. If he is sick, I sure hope it is not due to anything in the lab....

  • Replication is the only solution.


    Not enough. Consider the file-drawer effect. It's real. It can cause a great deal of damage. If anyone here doesn't know what that is, if many people attempt replication, and if only positive results are published, artifacts will create an appearance of replication. Much more care is required. If Open Science is to be followed, it's important that it all be open. The MFMP is publishing negative results. That is to be commended, and it makes positive results published by them more credible. What is needed is systematic exploration. Yes, replication, but then exploration with controlled experiment to discover possible artifacts, and to develop the parameter space.


    Instead, in this field, there is a constant urge to "improve" results, rather than simply confirming what has already been found and then varying a single condition at a time.


    Let's back up, This is about 1989 and what happened. http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…ld-fusion-repeat-in-2016/


    I don't find a clear understanding of 1989-1990 to be common. To move forward, the story of the Totally Unfair Rejection of Cold Fusion has to be dropped, because it's a distortion and will confuse us, leading us to fail to avoid similar hazards.


    The problem was not simply what Frank Acland states:


    Quote

    There was great hope and excitement when the news was first broadcast around the world by the at-first enthusiastic media — but within months the excitement turned to dismay and then largely to disgust as influential figures repeatedly trashed Pons and Fleischmann’s work and the two formerly respected scientists were effectively excommunicated from the scientific community.


    The response of the scientific community was disgusting, in many ways, but what caused that? Why did "influential figures" trash Pons and Fleischmann? How did this happen?


    First of all, the press conference. Why was this announced by press conference? Was that legally necessary? (No.)


    What Pons and Fleischmann had actually found was a heat anomaly in palladium deuteride. Martin later said it was a mistake to use the F word, Fusion. In the rush to publish, they included radiation data that had not been vetted by experts. It looked horribly incompetent to any physicist.


    Robert Park was very interested, following the story closely. He found that Pons and Fleischmann had sent one of their experimental rods to England for helium analysis. He asked for the results. He was told that they would be released. They were never released. Park dates his conclusion that this was "voodoo science" from his discovery that the results were being withheld.


    Why were the results withheld? Why did the collaboration with Morrey et al turn into such a disaster, with Pons violating the agreement and threatening to sue the others if they published what they found?


    Many who read this history without knowing the positive evidence for LENR conclude that Pons and Fleischmann were frauds or seriously deluded.


    And we discount this history, as if it didn't happen. Miles reported the heat/helium correlation in 1991. This was noticed by Huizenga, whom we might call King of the Skeptics. Huizenga realized how important it was. So why didn't the world jump on replicating that result? It was replicated, but it took many years. What stood in the way?


    I have not figured out much, but this much is fairly clear: Pons and Fleischmann believed that they had found a bulk effect, that the reaction was taking place in the bulk palladium. Pons originally announced the finding of helium shortly after the press conference, based on a gas analysis before the conference. Then came some analysis of rods. No helium in the bulk. Helium is trapped in bulk palladium, it cannot escape. I suspect that they considered the helium results as evidence that the reaction was not real (or that it must be producing some other product, but no other product was found that was a candidate).


    Fleischmann explained their dropping of a claim of helium production because "they did not want to fight on two fronts at once." This statement shows where his thinking had gone. This was a war. Not a search for experimental fact, regardless of theory. The helium evidence was fatal to their understanding of "cold fusion." In fact, it was the most solid evidence for cold fusion to date. Just not their idea of cold fusion! It's a surface effect, and the only helium found in CF cathodes is very near the surface, often removed in analysis to avoid contamination from atmospheric helium.


    There was careful, plodding work that was done, especially at SRI by Michael McKubre. However, this wasn't journal-published, which inhibited knowledge of it. There was much work in the field that was scattershot, isolated reports.


    Bottom line, because I identify with the research community, I say, "We created the rejection cascade, through ineffective response."


    So now what? Some time back, I started writing about Plan A and Plan B. Plan A was that a commercial effort creates a "reliable experiment," i.e., a reliable device that anyone can test. At this point, I'd say, the majority opinion in the field was that Rossi had something. It was obvious, very quickly, that Rossi was flamboyant, made promises he couldn't keep. Plans without solidity were presented as facts, already in motion. But still we hoped.


    I warned LENR scientists against appearing to endorse Rossi, because, bottom line, we didn't know, and the risk of harm to the reputation of LENR was real. However, we could say that LENR was not impossible, and we knew that. "Possible" does not translate automatically into "This device actually works!" It merely means that impossibility arguments cannot be used to rule it out. Beyond that, though, I advised the scientists not to appear to be endorsing specific claims unless they were clearly and independently confirmed.


    And then I proposed Plan B. Essentially, Plan A was easy. We didn't have to do anything. Rossi would save our ass, he would fix everything. But this is LENR< and the lost opportunity cost of delay I estimate at $1 trillion per year. We can't put all our eggs in the Rossi basket. Fortunately, Rossi wasn't asking for our eggs! So, Plan B: continue with basic scientific research, starting with whatever was needed to complete the scientific verification of LENR. We already knew about the heat/helium correlation, this was already confirmed and basically accepted by almost all in the field. I was told by some that more work on this wasn't necessary.


    But we need to listen to our critics. They are not convinced. On what could we find agreement? There is a principle of pathological science, often trotted out when referring to cold fusion: if measurements are made more precise, the effect disappears. Okay, how about measuring the heat/helium ratio more precisely? There is better equipment now, and we know much more about aspects of this than was known when the work was originally done 25 years ago. Further, going over that work, I discovered something: when there was reverse electrolysis, the helium measure moved to right on the deuterium fusion value. And that makes complete sense, even though Steve Krivit had great difficulty understanding it (and roundly attacked both experiments where this was done). The reverse electrolysis will remove a thin layer of palladium, and if helium is being generated at the surface (which the evidence strongly shows), then this will release the remaining helium. Plan B started, then, with a project to measure the heat/helium ratio with increased precision, using and testing this.


    I'm happy to say that the idea has been taken up and a project is being run at Texas Tech as a collaboration with ENEA, under the general support of Robert Duncan. If I have anything to say about it, this work will done with high caution and will be presented in a thoroughly cautious and careful paper, submitted to a major journal. This is direct evidence that cold fusion is both real and a nuclear reaction. This is not merely circumstantial.


    Plan B is going ahead. I don't think that funding will be a problem.


    And with this confirmation -- I assume confirmation because this is not speculative work, it is truly only increased precision work -- I expect the barriers to fall. It will take time for the message to propagate, for sure. But ... I know the skeptics and the skeptical position. The real skeptics have long demanded something like this. From weaker evidence, defense agencies have funded LENR work. From weaker evidence, the 2004 U.S. DoE panel almost concluded the effect was not only real but nuclear.


    One of the reasons we failed and continued to fail was that we did not respect the skeptics. If you don't respect people, you cannot communicate with them.


    If you watch this forum, you will see skeptics and pseudoskeptics, and some mixture. And then there are "believers" who attack skeptics. They can cause more harm than any skeptic! Someone coming who is curious and normally skeptical, seeing that, may very well conclude that this is typical of the field.


    (continued)

  • (continued)


    Frank closed with:

    Quote

    There will always be interest among some of us in LENR. I believe that there are thousands of people already around the world who are convinced it is a superior energy technology. However, at the moment we are a tiny minority of thinkers, seen by the mainstream as fringe players who are probably out of touch with reality, and therefore easy to be dismissed. In order for LENR to emerge from the fringes something will have to change.

    If you are "convinced that LENR is a superior energy technology," you are out of touch with reality. LENR is not yet an "energy technology," except in, mostly, fantasy and hope. We do not know how to use it.


    Rather, there are claims that, so far, cannot be verified. To believe as fact what cannot be verified, in matters of science, is pseudoscience.


    What will have to change is for us to get in touch with reality! What do we actually know? What can be verified? What has been independently confirmed and is fully subject to independent confirmation?We may hope for the success of commercial ventures, but whatever must be kept secret cannot be verified. We can individually decide to rely on some authority, but science relies, not on isolated authorities but on multiple authorities who report verifiable conclusions (not merely their opinions.)


    When Levi responded to questions from Clarke, presented by Mats Lewan, with "my colleagues approved my work," we knew that he'd lost all understanding of what science is. Among other things, it is an intense interest in discovering one's own errors, not a smug satisfaction in being right because someone said so.This is how this field must change. As it moves into the mainstream -- as it will -- criticism must become deep and vigorous, and must be fully welcome.

  • abd said "As it moves into the mainstream -- as it will"


    I don't think it will move into the mainsteam without $, euros,yen or even riyals.


    Even in Japan,which has provided the bulk of the transmutation data so far
    LENR is still a fringe thing..researched for its utility to clean up radioactive waste..by Mitsy/gov combined finance,
    and not for its prime utility as a replacement for messy energy production.


    If we compare with the $ and euros shoved into the actinide fission in 1940's 1950's and into
    high T fusion since then clearly there is a discrepancy..with the few shekels invested in LENR


    It is not the problem of fantasy... the high T fusion is just as much fantasy as LENR
    it is a matter of $ and what controls society's investments.


    When I look at the glaring discrepancy I tend to believe that the world is controlled by rich cartel which
    likes the status quo and fear anything that might challenge that .
    Anyone know Noam Chomsky's opinion on that?

  • I see this short "The Scientist" article linked at ECW near their links to news of Maxim Pospelov's work on a new particle explain cosmic Li deficit.


    The battle lines were apparently drawn back then and have continued since. Be prepared to read it as though it was written yesterday:


    http://www.the-scientist.com/?…nel-Warms-To-Cold-Fusion/


    An excerpt as a sample, I include here under "fair use" provisions as I understand them:



    "Clandestine NSF Panel Warms To Cold Fusion"

    WASHINGTON—Four months
    after one federal agency killed the prospect of government support of
    cold fusion, a second agency has brought it back to life.


    The strange phenomenon of low-temperature nuclear fusion....
    [stuff deleted] took another bizarre turn last month when a
    self-described “upbeat, enthusiastic” panel of experts assembled by the
    National Science Foundation’s engineering division concluded that the
    effects of cold fusion are real and “cannot be explained as a result of artifacts,
    equipment, or human errors.” Besides contradicting a preliminary report
    issued by another panel of experts convened by the Department of Energy
    in July, the October workshop was vehemently opposed by physicists and
    chemists at NSF. In seeming testimony to the audacity of their effort,
    the sponsors tried to keep the meeting secret, initially planning to
    transport the participants by bus to an undisclosed location for their
    three-day meeting. Then, after news of the event was leaked to the
    press, NSF agreed grudgingly to hold an informal “media opportunity”
    rather than a public press conference to declare the panelists’ support
    for further research.


    Informal or not, the media event had all
    the signs of a classic cold fusion press conference: secrecy, confusion,
    and disputed claims. At one point, a gaggle of attending scientists
    literally distanced themselves from a statement written by Edward
    Teller, one of the fathers of both the hydrogen bomb and the Strategic
    Defense Initiative.


    Teller, who attended the three-day workshop
    at NSF headquarters but not the press conference, hypothesizes “an
    as-yet undiscovered neutral particle” as the catalytic agent for the
    cold fusion reaction. But in front of the press, one scientist after
    another declined to read the statement. One of the sponsors of the
    workshop, NSF’s Paul Werbos, says, “I didn’t want to appear on TV saying
    what Teller had written. Out of context, it might look like I was
    saying it.” Finally, Teller’s statement was read by Harold Szu, a
    scientist at the Naval Research Laboratory.


    [excerpted from article in The Scientist by Christopher Anderson, November 13, 1989]

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