Leonardo Corporation Issues Press Release Announcing Termination of Industrial Heat License

  • IHFB - seems that you're having a tough couple of days. Not watching where you're walking in the barnyard and now having to deal with what sounds like some acid reflux. This place may not be good for your health. Perhaps you should take a break and get yourself back together. We're just really getting underway and you are going to want to be in better shape when the heavy stuff starts landing.

  • For those who don't understan dmy way of mind in that affair, I assume that people are selfish and rational.

    IH selfish interest is to make billion.
    losing trust of Rossi by not obeying his demand is a huge risk if they still believe there is billion to make.

    Screwing Rossi, is not only immoral but basically stupid.

    This problems seems to be ignored by many people who live in the legend of evil capitalism.
    Capitalism is not evil, it is just mutual interrest...
    If someone abuse of his position, the other feel fooled and will send the bill later.
    Immorality is just lack of long term risk management.

    If I look at someone irrational, I dont look at IH.

  • Alainco - The IH mission is to find working LENR technology, move it into engineering to see if something useful can be made, put to work then to bring it to the world on an affordable speed-to-ubiquity basis. Yes, investors are expecting a return on their investment should this technology make it to the commerce stage but that is not the focus. We have an air, land and sea pollution crisis and if we don't don't something in the not-too-distant-future then those who count on the sea for their protein (or enjoy seafood) are the next to be in BIG trouble.

  • Many entrepreneurs beside playing the rules of capitalism (or of any system, like crony capitalism, communism, tibal , feudalism) have an intimate project... I concede I've seen that many times, and this seems to be a great motivation for meple who are already wealthy, or who have something more than being rich to prove to their community.

    You raise an interesting danger.
    Countrary to many I see "morality" and "ideology" as the key to horrors, when they are based on errors...
    If you see horrors, genocides, they are based mostly on deviant definition of what is good, justifying violation of the others freedom to contract.

    However I don't see in that affair how ideology and morality could explain an irrational behavior of IH.

    Sorry to be nasty on what many people judge good (religions, morality, ideology), but I'm French and my history is long enough to be full of horrors we did or exported.
    I prefer mutually beneficial selfish interest, shared by free contractant, than sacrifices and violation of freedom done for the good .

    I trust system of incentives, not people.

    LENR will soon face those devil of morality, and ideology, and this will be painful enough.

  • Alainco- Do you think that LENR is ready for "rational" investors? Do you appreciate that IH has assembled a group of investors whoe are willing to lose all of their invested capital to see if this sector can be moved to the point where "rational" investors will become interested? IH is actually being quite unselfish - once a bonafide demonstration is confirmed. Billions of euros and hundreds are companies will be heading into this space. IH understands that very well. Speed-to-ubiquity!

  • this will be the race to the West, but any other strategy will kill the market.
    The myth that you can keep the IP of LENR like a secret formula is laughable.
    You can even keep the secret, but people will reinvent thousand times, and variants will get around any patent.
    Finally only value will be from speed to occupy the market, quality of the ecosystem of innovators, speed to adopt others ideas and pay them so they continue...
    and finally ability to make the market grow exponentially, and get a tiny share of a whale.

    better running in the crowd, than lone in the desert.

  • @Alaine

    "The myth that you can keep the IP of LENR like a secret formula is laughable."

    You may be able to maintain some patents for a period of time. In the patent, the formula is public (not secret), but its use is subject to royalty.

  • Alainco - you are nobly attempting to reach conclusions with facts that nobody has at present. Most of the LENR IP is in the public domain after 28 years of disclosures. There will not be any blocking patents that we can see. Trade secrets... maybe with a picket patent strategy? Open source perhaps? Once a bonafide working reaction is confirmed with a high level of confidence then the next round of decisions can be contemplated and made. Remember - speed-to-ubiquity.

  • However I don't see in that affair how ideology and morality could explain an irrational behavior of IH.

    Sorry to be nasty on what many people judge good (religions, morality, ideology), but I'm French and my history is long enough to be full of horrors we did or exported.
    I prefer mutually beneficial selfish interest, shared by free contractant, than sacrifices and violation of freedom done for the good .

    Alain, I respect your opinion and agree with your analyses generally regarding IH and Rossi. However, I think you may be missing some things in your analysis about morality and ideology. I would assert that your trusting of mutually beneficial selfish interest is also a form of ideology. Ideology is inescapable. Some forms of ideology and morality may lead to horrors, but others may lead to wonders. I think Darden's Christian beliefs lead him to work towards the good and benefit of many. On the other hand, Rossi uses religion to manipulate people into thinking his intentions are good.

    Consider gunpowder. Is it bad? Can it be used for bad? Can it be used for good?

    The same goes for religious belief, ideology, and morality. Indeed, mutual self-interest as an ideology may be used to perpetuate horrors.

  • IH have answered to Rossi's accusation with a motion to dismiss.

    That was a link to a copy of the Motion to Dismiss on the New Energy Times site. It appears to be gone. However, with Google, I found it. http://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…05Rossi-vs-Darden-NET.pdf Peter Gluck had the same bad link.. Looks like Krivit moved it.

    Let's get some terms straight. Details matter. Rossi filed a Complaint, that includes Claims. We can call these accusations, but that's not the legal term. IH has not "answered" the Claims. They have objected to the Complaint as being improper -- in many ways. Some of these were quite obvious, I could see them when I first read the Complaint. If the Motion to Dismiss is not granted, they will then Answer. The Motion includes basically one sentence, a note that points out that they cannot Answer in the Motion, they can only address whatever is in the Complaint itself. They cannot, for example, say that the facts alleged in the Complaint are "wrong." What they can do is to say that if everything in the Complaint as to fact is true, nevertheless the Complaint is invalid as a matter of law.

    Peter Gluck calls this "complex," but that's because he -- and many others -- don't understand what is happening. This is very straightforward legal action. It's expensive to litigate. We can see the difference between the Complaint and the Motion, it's obvious. The Complaint looks like it was written by someone who just wrote down the rants of someone who was upset, with some minimal work to push it into legal language. If you want to understand the Motion, you will probably have to read it carefully. The points of law are clearly made. I have not gone over it with the attention that the judge will, but most of the points in the Motion, to me, appear likely to be sustained. Then Rossi can amend the Complaint, to fix it, but ... it will be full of holes. This will get expensive for him.

    It was funny to see comments when Rossi filed the suit that IH had decided to bully the wrong guy. He was going to cream them. What people were doing was praising the most deranged aspect of Rossi, his bull-headedness, which is probably what got him tossed in jail in Italy. If Rossi actually had what he claimed in 2011, what stopped the appearance of a commercial product, readily available to those able to invest? Only Rossi. Nobody else managed it.

    Rossi insisted on a 1 MW plant, which is, then, difficult to test and way expensive compared to what one would need to evaluate the technology, and a 1 MW plant, that is nothing more than a pile of individual smaller reactors, will cover up, hide, individual reactor unreliability. Suppose the 1 MW plant is fifty 20 KW reactors. As someone considering investing in this, would I prefer to buy one 1 MW plant or ten 20 KW reactors? Even if the 20 KW reactors are substantially more expensive per kilowatt than the plant, I'd much, much rather have the individual reactors, because then I could thoroughly test them. But ... Rossi was paranoid that his IP would be stolen. He was paranoid in Italy that his Petroldragon IP would be stolen. What did he end up with?

    No, Rossi picked the wrong company to mess with. The lawsuit, if it's not dismissed, could drag out for years. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking on patents, if he has any that are valuable, which is quite questionable. Patents that do not disclose the secret catalyst, for example, are worthless unless amended. A patent must disclose the IP!

    Meanwhile, anyone investing in Rossi will be aware that he just might sue them if they don't do what he wants. They will be aware that he is ready to believe they are out to screw him over. Increasingly, scientists will be unwilling to participate in studies on his reactors, becoming aware of damage to the reputation of those who have done it.

    Rossi is painting himself into a corner, and he could easily come to be facing a fraud prosecution. Remember, you can be "innocent" and be convicted! Rossi, for years, appeared to be deliberately creating the impression that he was a con artist -- to dupe possible competitors, some of us thought. That can very much backfire. A jury might believe it!


    quite technical and formal. it basically says accusations are nonsense or wrong.

    . No, it says that if they are all true, as to fact, as a matter of law, they do not establish the claims.


    there is some interesting comments on the test itself, saying the agreement was not as rossi says, only onf the 6 cylinder unit, and with a performance test first (ampenergo did not agree to change the protocol).

    Again, details matter. They do not say that Ampenergo did not agree to change. What they point out is that the document that was filed with the suit required the signatures of all parties, and there was no signature for Ampenergo. There was also no signature from Leonardo. And there was no claim that a fully-signed document existed. (i.e, the document appears to be Rossi's personal copy, and he didn't bother to sign it except as himself, he forgot, apparently, about the two corporations. They are not Rossi, even though he might have effective control of them and even if he was authorized to agree. He simply did not sign. And then his attorney, putting together the documents for the case, didn't point this out to him. None of the signatures are dated. Had Rossi signed that copy on their behalf, even later, preparing for the suit, there would have been no formal failure -- and IH would never know, my guess. I don't think that would have been illegal, as long as he didn't lie about it under a legal requirement to be truthful. So ... one more example of attorney incompetence, but it runs back to Rossi incompetence. (Attorney time is expensive, and going over every detail may not have been what the attorney was paid for. The suit was filed in a rush, it appears, it was actually filed the day before the payment came due, if the ERV report was positive as Rossi claims. $89 million is hanging on this, and Rossi doesn't dot his i's and cross his t's. And now that document cannot be fixed. It's still possible for Rossi to amend the complaint, on "information and belief."

    There is a more serious defect. The amendment provides that the GPT begins on a date agreed to in writing by the parties. No such agreement is alleged in the Complaint. Did it exist? If it did not, the language would then appear to fall back the originally agreed date, which was in 2013 and would have expired, I think it would have been August 2014. The Rossi GPT didn't begin until February, 2015. This did not satisfy the Agreement.

    The original description of the GPT was ... naive. It was a setup for failure. So, again, who wrote that?

    I have not gone over the document with the full care that would be required. It's work. Nobody is paying me to do it. But this is my impression: it is extremely well crafted. Those are very, very expensive attorneys. I can see why.

    The Rossi fan club is pissed, calling for them to be disbarred .... for doing exactly their job, which at this point is to get the suit tossed out. If it is not dismissed, and after certain other preliminary steps, they will file an Answer, which will then, itself, assert relevant facts and claims.

    Those who were imagining that in a few days there would be all this evidence to digest about the ERV report, etc., were dreaming. There are hints in the Motion, as notes, as to where an actual defense will go. We can hope, but premature certainty is foolish.

    An issue was mentioned that I've had in mind since 2011: reliability. Defkalion also brought this up. What if Rossi has reactors that produce a lot of power? For 24 hours. Then they fail. To maintain output Rossi needs to repair the reactors constantly. No wonder he was exhausted! Again, we don't have the facts, and Rossi never released any reliability data.

    They have not raised an issue that shows fundamental defect in the whole test protocol. It's about COP. Okay, what if the $1.5 million plant has a COP of 50, but a maximum output of, say, 500 W? It is called a 1 MW plant, but what is the actual average operating power? The test protocol is completely silent on that. Hello? Who wrote this? My expectation: Rossi wrote it and IH had the choice of accepting it or walking away. But that is speculation. These are facts that could come out in the trial, because who wrote a document like that can matter. The test protocol for "guaranteed performance" required steam at 100 C. But all steam is 100 C. If it's not 100 C or higher (at 1 atmosphere), it isn't steam, it's water, which can also be 100 C.

  • It is a bold move by Rossi to issue that press release at the very moment IH filed their motion. By doing so, Rossi once more takes control and forces IH to react. If they dispute the press release, they are implictly acknowledging the value of Rossi's IP and thereby rendering the strategy impossible to portrait Rossi as a fraudster who has no valid technology whatsoever.

    Rossi issued the press release before IH filed the Motion to Dismiss. The press release is legally meaningless. It doesn't "force" IH to do anything. So many, here, are living in fantasy.


    Let's see what will happen. I venture to predict that Dewey's threatening words will once more be exposed as unsubstantiated FUD when IH issues their reply.

    I haven't seen Dewey's comments as anything other than sarcastic, from someone with a level of inside knowledge. Nothing has yet been "exposed." By definition, much of what Dewey has said won't be "substantiated" yet. It's rumor, from an insider. What little actual substantiation we have does confirm what Dewey has been saying, but these are only hints. Dewey's comments are aligned with those of Jed Rothwell, who is also claiming inside information.

    So this is one small step up from bare rumor. For all we know, both Jed and Dewey are riffing on the same source. Until we see the documents, most of what is being written is speculation. A lot is based on "Rossi said." Which is worth what? I've been reading what Rossi says since 2011. Read An Impossible Invention. Much of what Rossi says is ... let's call it wishful thinking. Something that just became possible is presented as a done deal. Etc.

    My prediction: IH will ignore the press release. If they have IP that works, they will continue to research it and possibly to develop products. If they don't, the press release is meaningless. I don't see that they gain anything by a response, and they are not required, in any way, to respond. Legal notices provided to them, yes, they might respond, and I expect them to respond in ways that will preserve their rights. A press conference, under present conditions, a waste of time.

    It will not mean anything about whether Rossi has anything or not. I'm coming to like Dewey's term, "Planet Rossi."

    On Planet Rossi, the latest rush of opinion matters. Chatter on internet fora matters. People create ideas of good and bad, and that all supposedly matters. If we all chant "Rossi is the savior of the planet," why, then, the planet is saved! Only the evil people will prevent this. Let's boo and hiss until they slink off into the darkness.

    Meanwhile the lawsuit guarantees that Rossi does not have a clear right to sell licenses in the territory that IH was granted. To my mind, this all works in IH's favor. They don't need to raise money by selling licenses. Rossi cannot stop them, at this point. He can rant and rave and fire up his fans, and they can't stop IH, either. This is a legal issue, and popular opinion has almost no effect in that arena. I suppose Rossi could ask people to donate to his legal fund.

    Hey, Rossi fans! Put you money where your mouth is!

  • I would expect no response from this, NDAs would be massively violated, I expect. when Brillouin is ready to announce, we'll hear about it. The history of premature announcements in cold fusion is an inspiration to keep one's mouth shut!

  • On Planet Rossi, the latest rush of opinion matters. Chatter on internet fora matters. People create ideas of good and bad, and that all supposedly matters. If we all chant "Rossi is the savior of the planet," why, then, the planet is saved! Only the evil people will prevent this. Let's boo and hiss until they slink off into the darkness.

    Are you seriously suggesting that there is no social engineering pertaining to the wishes of the western structure of power, going on here or other LENR-related websites

    It IS entertaining though. For example Dewey Weaver is an excellent heckler/reverse hypeman.

  • For those who don't understan dmy way of mind in that affair, I assume that people are selfish and rational.

    I understand your assumption but I think it is flawed. People are regularly selfish, but not exclusively - and people are often rational but certainly not always. People may even be selfish in a way that makes them act irrationally (commonly called greed).

    Btw, this flawed and idealized assumption about the human condition is the very reason why the dogmatic liberalism building upon it is an equally flawed and dangerous ideology.

  • Kei - I don't really enjoy doing battle with Team Rossi. There are better things to do in life. Rossi launched a heinous PR and slander war along with some sloppy litigation against my good friends and threatened one of my investments. I've figured out how to tangle with the best of them and we're just really getting warmed up.

    Now on to your global uberconspiracy hyperparanoia existence. Do you have a Google phone or an Apple phone?