Nigel - are you implying that Walker's companies are potential ECat investors?
No, not at all. I know nothing of the investment plans of these companies. I suppose any company with interests in power generation MIGHT be POTENTIAL investors in LENR, given convincing demonstrations.
quizzical wrote:
This was reasonably correct, in a way. But it is not true that we cause no harm when we delude ourselves, particularly when this self-delusion is then passed on to others.
QuoteDelusion is not a criminal action, but deceiving others to cash in 11.5 m$ is not only "harm and foul" it is called fraud. And this is a criminal action.
Yes, This is potentially a criminal offense. And then Tom continued:
QuoteIf Rossi has nothing in terms of IP, then he has not only defrauded IH, but also deceived all of his followers. And then you would be the only one who thinks that this is "no harm, no foul".
This was quite clear. However, what is clear on Planet Earth is not clear on Planet Rossi
Tom Paulsen wrote:
Notice that context has been lost by incomplete quotation. And then it is totally lost, in order to make Tom wrong.
QuoteThis is not fraud. Having "nothing in terms of IP" is dependent on an examination by a U.S. government agency and in many ways is outside the control of an inventor.
"Having nothing in terms of IP" was a manner of speaking about fraud, which would not merely be "having nothing," it would not be mere error, it would be faking something, engaging in deception for the purpose of obtaining an advantage, i.e., the payment. The idea assumes that if there were actually nothing, it would not appear to be something through so many different demonstrations and tests. There is a gray area, there is an edge of the cliff, and if one hangs out near the edge, sometimes one will fall over. I'll explain this.
"US government agency" here is unspecified. Prosecution for criminal fraud would be by a government agency. Whether or not Rossi "has something in terms of IP," though, is not relevant to that. The Rossi Effect could be real, yet he could still be prosecuted for fraud if he created fake results leading to investment. Then there is the issue of harm, and that is what was being discussed. Several potential harms are involved here. "Harm" is not necessarily illegal.
In 2011, I believe, I pointed out that it was not illegal for Rossi to run a magic show, to make idiots out of experts, in quite a number of ways, as long as he was not deceiving investors. Rossi sold licences, we think, but bought them back when IH invested. He could still be prosecuted if fraud was involved there, but it's far from likely. As I understand the matter, the buyback would (mostly) prevent a civil fraud prosecution, but not criminal fraud.
However, let's say that Rossi consolidated all the cases through his agreement with IH.
However, there are the other effects. In spite of the unsupported opinions of some here, the announcement of major NiH results had a large impact on the cold fusion research community. Most of that community does not participate in public discussion, but this opinion has been expressed privately among CMNS researchers, often, and there is little disagreement as to harm. It has often been expressed this way :"Why bother with watts when Rossi is running kilowatts?" Whether the researchers believed Rossis claims or not -- some did, some didn't -- this also affected funding. Rossi did stir up enthusiasm, with MFMP pursuing NiH effects. Whether or no this was a benefit or a harm remains to be seen. Most efforts to show NiH LENR have been inconclusive at best. And most efforts have been trying to "replicate Rossi." If there is nothing to replicate, this has been a colossal waste of time and money. "Harm" is not limited to what is criminal. Much harm is not criminal.
I once again add that these considerations are not based on a "fact" of Rossi having or not having some real effect and the knowledge of how to create it.
It is easy to way, "Wait until the ERV report is available," but it might never become available. What is becoming clear is something what I've been promoting for some years: we should not put all our eggs in the Rossi basket, it was far too risky.
We need to proceed -- most of us -- as if the Rossi Effect is not real. The study of NiH reactions is going to continue even if Rossi had nothing, is exposed as a total con. NiH LENR has a modelst level of other experimental support, simply much less than for PdD.
We need sober examination of what McKubre called the "parameter space" of cold fusion. We need to nail down and show by confirmed and replicable experimental evidence the reality of cold fusion and then how it actually operates, what it does, and then how to create the effect, and then how to apply it, using the methods of science and engineering. Humanity needs this.
I invite skeptics to participate in this process. When I suggest experiment to demonstrate the reality of cold fusion, these experiments would also demonstrate artifact, if "cold fusion" is an illusion, a big mistake. We need to know, it's time that to remove the "con" from confusion. What is happening? Fusion? Some other reaction? Artifact? File drawer effect? What is happening?
Pseudoskeptics will focus, often, on personalities, i.e. alleged frauds and con artists and deluded scientists who lost it somewhere and, and will consider imagined artifact as if it were proof.
The edge of the cliff. In the Lugano test, there was an internal thermocouple, Rossi used this for setup and possibly for control. At the end of the test, Rossi returned and shut the device down. He knew the temperature. He would have known that it was nowhere near 1400 C external. But he allowed the Lugano researchers to go ahead with that claim. He allowed a false impression to be maintained and promulgated which, among other things, could have had an impact on IH. If I'm correct, IH manufactured the Lugano device. Allowing someone to believe a thing to their detriment could be fraud. Even if not, in itself, it could help create an impression of fraud in a fraud prosecution.
Rossi has been playing a very dangerous game.
Another player....
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Please check the format and quotes of your comment:
Now IH have lost E-Cat License and IP, who will manufacture E-Cats in the US?
Abd - the really sick thing about "wait until the ERV comes out" is that Rossi was still broadcasting that misleading statement to his followers while he was preparing his slipshod litigation plan against IH. He likely never had any intention of releasing the "ERV" to his people. He should go ahead and release it to his people now and get that upcoming bloodbath on Planet Rossi over with.
Hi all
In reply to Dewey Weaver
On numerous occasions you have claimed to have access to the ERV report as did others, one even implied at one point that there was an IH only commissioned report that was counter to what the ERV had written, however they latter recanted that, some one perhaps pointed out the implications of saying it 
Having claimed to have access to the report, I simply ask that you prove it by posting it up.
Or like another you recant and say that was not what you meant.
Of course at any time; IH, just like Rossi, can release the report...
Mussing... Unless of course there is a provision in the NDA saying that releasing the report has to been done by both parties agreement or a penalty is triggered.
Of course the court can demand the release of the ERV report without triggering any penalty...
Just Musing you Understand
Kind Regards walker
I don't get the original business setup between IH and Rossi in terms of licence fee determination.
The cost of the wafer and the control system is a small fraction of the total manufacturing costs of the 1 MW steam reactor container. All those pipes, wires, valves, and insulation have to be where most of the production costs were to go. I assume that IH was responsible for the manufacture of the container including the steam related components, and Rossi just supplied the wafer and control system. It seems that Rossi had a sweet deal going where his cost of manufacturing is very small and IH's cost were very large. Rossi was to get 5% of the total cost of the selling price of the reactor even if IH provided the major cost of manufacture.
Was Rossi restricted to sell his wafers to IH only, or could Rossi supply his products to other system's integrators, say a turbine engine manufacturer. That is to say that IH was the only source of LENR products? If IH was not the sole LENR product vender, IH would be at a great marketing disadvantage.
Or was IH permitted to manufacture the wafer and sell it as an OEM to other LENR applications?
Or even worst for IH, Rossi can also sell this reactor to other value added people as an OEM.
Rossi's new marketing plan to be the OEM to multiple value added venders of his product covering many and varied applications seems more advantageous to the LENR marketplace since many companies can innovate and compete.
For example, the company who manufactures the Energy harvester with integrated Quark reactor would blow the steam container with wafer right out of the water: no contest.
Walker - if you did your homework and actually read what Rossi proposed then signed as his contract then you'd be able to figure out that Rossi brilliantly inflicted a one-way NDA on himself. That is a confidential document for Rossi but not for IH. IH will release the "ERV" when it is most advantageous to IH.
Axil - the 1MW reactor is a rework of the unit that Rossi sent over from Italy. No wafers in the system just powder.
Rossi is going to be hard pressed to be able to legally conduct business with anyone in the IH territory until he makes good on his commitment to his original $10M customer.
While I have your attention - what kind of pressure do you think Rossi designed the individual reactors inside the 1MW to be able to withstand?.
Was it less than 2 psi?
Axil - the 1MW reactor is a rework of the unit that Rossi sent over from Italy. No wafers in the system just powder.
Rossi is going to be hard pressed to be able to legally conduct business with anyone in the IH territory until he makes good on his commitment to his original $10M customer.
While I have your attention - what kind of pressure do you think Rossi designed the individual reactors inside the 1MW to be able to withstand?.
About 2 BarG for 135C steam.
The use of powder in the 1 MW reactor means that the IH technology is now 2 generations behind what Rossi is doing now.
IMHO, a LENR value added systems integrator can sell a LENR product in the IH territories if that manufacture buys LENR reactors outside the territories of IH but imports those reactors into the territories for product assembly.
LC - very good! That is failure pressure level for the two individual reactors that were pressure tested in Raleigh.
Axil - you'll be sad to know that the pressure tested reactors failed at 2 Psi. But the great news is that the "ERV" pressure level was reported at 0.0 bar for every single data point reported during the test so not a problem - right?
Axil - you'll be sad to know that the pressure tested reactors failed at 2 Psi. But the great news is that the "ERV" pressure level was reported at 0.0 bar for every single data point reported during the test so not a problem - right?
We must see the original data if it exists.
Mr. Weaver,
in other words, a human fart could rupture the reactor,,
it would be an engineering feat to build something that flimsy.
I have the pictures and report. Rossi claimed 15 Psi was the spec but then again, everything seems to be off by about that factor or higher (think flowmeter). The systems popped open at 2 Psi. According to Barry, the leaks in Miami gave Rossi fits for weeks. The "ERV" says 0.0 bar for every data point each of the 12 final report annex docs.
Hi Dewey,
Well I can't say I'm surprised, I've seen better pressed steel car sumps than those reactor casings. Even the bolt holes looked hand drilled by eye. Do you know what was used as a gasket?
