IH preventing Rossi from publishing ERV, according to Dewey Weaver

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

Timar wrote:
So you suggest that IH would have released the ERV if Rossi had politely asked them to do so?

Forgive me but... BWUHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA! Totally made my day, still wiping the tears from my eyes. Thank you, Dewey!
He didn't say that. What he said was that if Rossi wants the ERV released he could request it. He could do two things: consent to the release, formally, with a letter to IH, and then publicly give that consent.

As the test was coming to an end, Rossi repeatedly said he would release the ERV report. He said this on his blog. He promised Mats Lewan he would, and Mats planned a symposium. Later, when it became clear Rossi would not publish, Mats had to cancel, which cost him a lot of money and trouble.

So, if Rossi knew all along he was not authorized to publish, he was lying, and costing his friend Mats a lot of trouble and money. If he did not know this, he wasn't paying attention. He should have checked with I.H.

Quote from JedRothwell

No, not me, but I am flattered that you think so. I would not be qualified. I am a programmer, technical writer and sometimes translator.

Rossi was the source of this information, in his recent interview with Lewan. Rossi said the I.H. expert "insisted" but Rossi said no. Actually, he says his puppet Penon said no, but Rossi makes the decisions.

The interview is here:

https://animpossibleinvention.…ilding-plus-more-updates/

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I believe this is VERY significant point that those in the Rossi camp continue to ignore deeply in error. There is absolutely no logical reason that IH should not have been able to see the operation on the other side of the wall to know how the process is circulating back. It is also absurd that Rossi and/or Penon felt that it was not important to know where the water came from and where it was used. This SCREAMS shenanigans to me. Secrecy for the "unidentified customer" is not a valid excuse as an IH expert would be of no danger to the business operations of said customer by just seeing the heat/power side of the operation. Complete nonsense that the Rossi camp should really consider.

Quote from JedRothwell

Quote from LENR Calender: “Possibly Rossi was tired of waiting for IH to find a customer and created a fake one and wasted 1MW for a whole year. I”
If there is no customer and Rossi is throwing away the heat, why would he bother to transfer the heat to a closed room? Why would he refuse to allow the I.H. expert and others to see it? Why not just waste it in the room where the reactor is located, by installitong a large fan?What you say makes no sense. The only plausible explanation is that he did not want anyone from I.H. to see what is in the customer site, and the only reason he would not want them to see it is because there is only a 15 kW radiator in there.

If Rossi created a fake customer without IH's knowledge, it would make sense for the large fan to be in the customer area, and for Rossi to not want IH to enter the customer site.

Given how it took months between delivery of the plant and the start of the test, Rossi might have felt that it was a necessary evil to make things advance.

That situation isn't incompatible with the e-cat working, so unfortunately we aren't any closer to the truth.

Quote from LENR Calender

If Rossi created a fake customer without IH's knowledge, it would make sense for the large fan to be in the customer area, and for Rossi to not want IH to enter the customer site.

WHY would he bother to make a fake customer in the first place?? I.H. did not care whether there was a customer. The purpose of the test was to prove the machine worked. I.H. did not insist on a customer. That was Rossi's idea. The only reason he insisted was to give himself a way to hide the fact that the machine was attached to a 15 kW radiator (my estimate).

Quote from LENR Calender

That situation isn't incompatible with the e-cat working, so unfortunately we aren't any closer to the truth.

The "situation" you describe is surrealistic and utterly divorced from reality. There was never any need for a customer. THERE WAS NO CUSTOMER. It was all a fiction, and the only purpose of that fiction was to hide a blatant fraud. It did not hide that fraud. Anyone looking at the instruments and measuring the temperatures in Rossi's section of the warehouse could see the gadget was not working. The instruments and methods were ridiculous, as I.H. pointed out.

Jed - IH actually had a customer for the 1MW unit lined up in Raleigh but Rossi refused to proceed claiming that the real customer would not be independent enough to be believed should the test be a success. The initial IH lab was in a facility on the customer's premise and had all kinds nearby of steam / hot water needs. That obviously would not have worked as Rossi had to create a fake customer to ensure that the 1MW test would be independent enough to pass the rigorous expertise and standards of the brilliant and reliable nuclear "ERV".

@JedRothwell wrote: [The ERV Test Rig might have a] "fluid (probably hot water, not steam) is cooled by some secret machine in the pretend customer site next door, which he will not allow people to see."

Exactly the problem. The "secret machine" (black box) might even be a water heater that sends high temperature or high pressure water back to the ECAT "heater" side. We have NO idea how the entire system works. No published schematic. No measurements on both input and output sides of the heater of temperatures, pressures, flow rates. Just a lot of second hand "he said". And then Rossi blocked IH from seeing inside the secret room. Why?

The whole "secret customer" black box is right up there with the need to test a 1 MW plant privately without being able to test one (50 to 250 kW) reactor independently, and with taking a whole year to do it. Excessive delay, obfuscation, mystery, snakes, clowns, puppets, hand waiving, smoke, mirrors and magic. It's like the Wizard of Oz -- do not look at the man behind the curtain. There is always another one year delay and some plausible "business" excuse why no one owes the public any hard information. We are wasting time reading this comedic noise because there is a hard news vacuum on how the Rossi LENR machine actually performs. And to add icing on this mud-cake, now IH says that it chooses not to release the report until it suits them. There are of course the usual plausible excuses, but no real information on why it doesn't suit IH. The judge and jury will see it anyway. Rossi already has it.

(The secret customer's heat load should have been replaced with a conventional fully instrumented heat exchanger of known performance to corroborate whatever was measured at the input and output. I think this customer black-box was either intentional to throw us off, or something along the lines of Rossi's In Mercato Veritas excuse for not releasing information. I personally find it inexcusable to delay the release of performance information this way, but we will have the usual excuses that Rossi and IH owe us "nothing". That certainly harms our civilization's progress in replacing fossil fuels with this new technology.)

I (the interested public) ask that IH please disclose the report in a way that doesn't harm its case against Rossi. IH has a leadership position in LENR and with it the responsibility of stewardship. Help LENR out so we can understand how or why Rossi failed to deliver. Then we can move on beyond Rossi. There is too much collective thought being spent on this conflict that could be applied towards LENR. Even Jed is involved. Lomax is clearly brilliant. Dewey is a great writer. What a waste.

Quote from Dewey Weaver

Jed - IH actually had a customer for the 1MW unit lined up in Raleigh but Rossi refused to proceed claiming that the real customer would not be independent enough to be believed should the test be a success.

Not independent enough? My goodness.

I did not know any of this. I thought I read here, or somewhere, that I.H. did not care whether there was a customer, and Rossi was the one who insisted. I hope I did not make that up.

Quote from Dewey Weaver

Rossi had to create a fake customer to ensure that the 1MW test would be independent enough to pass the rigorous expertise and standards of the brilliant and reliable nuclear "ERV".

It couldn't have been easy. Apparently Rossi's lawyer acted as a kind of Fairy Godmother, transforming pumpkins into carriages and rats into horses.

Perhaps Rossi's lawyer will need a lawyer himself, when all of this comes to light.

The JM Products lawyer..er... president has already hired a lawyer.
The fairly godmonster does have his work cut out for him.

Looks like we may have a Wizard of Oz theme starting to coalesce. I feel another song coming.

Quote from anonymous

I (the interested public) ask that IH please disclose the report in a way that doesn't harm its case against Rossi. IH has a leadership position in LENR and with it the responsibility of stewardship. Help LENR out so we can understand how or why Rossi failed to deliver. Then we can move on beyond Rossi.

I too would very much like to see the report published. I too wish we could put this behind us.

However, $89 million is at stake. I.H. must do whatever their lawyers advise them to do. The lawyers understand the ramifications of revealing the report, and the timing. I have no clue about such legal issues, so I do not think I should bother I.H. with my concerns.

Quote from Dewey Weaver

Jed - IH actually had a customer for the 1MW unit lined up in Raleigh but Rossi refused to proceed claiming that the real customer would not be independent enough to be believed should the test be a success. The initial IH lab was in a facility on the…

That's interesting. I guess we might see what comes up regarding the customer in a few months if things come out in the open. Most likely we won't know anything as usual.

@JedRothwell wrote: "I have no clue about such legal issues, so I do not think I should bother I.H. with my concerns."

Sorry Jed, but you are a leader of LENR whether you like it or not as the ex-officio "Librarian". You've been at this a long time -- a lot longer than most of us. The whole LENR ecosystem (including the people who support and criticize your postings here and even on ECW) do rely on your vote, and that undoubtedly includes Industrial Heat's decision makers.

Industrial Heat is going to do what is economically responsible for their company -- that's a given. But if without harming themselves they can help advance the discussion beyond this focus on the "Trial of the Century" and the 1 MW test, they can move the whole of LENR forward. That actually helps them. We as a LENR community need to stop worrying about this ERV Report of success or failure, and if possible get even a Sifferkol's motivations back aligned to trying to make progress. Too much time is being spent non-productively. We are literally creating entropy (merde) with this in-fighting discussion. It's wrong. We can end it by exposing the way the machine works with hard data and move on. Not every test works. That's science, trial and error.

Jed I was also a programmer but anyway. This is not the thread for this but I respect your opinion (excepting the doxing thing).
If you can, I would like your opinion on LENR, without Rossi's sidetrack. I can't say it plainer than this. A URL will do if it describes your current beliefs.
Thx.

Quote from anonymous

Sorry Jed, but you are a leader of LENR whether you like it or not as the ex-officio "Librarian".

I do not think I or anyone else is a "leader" in cold fusion. Trying to get the researchers to do anything is like herding cats. But even supposing I am some sort of leader, here is what I am NOT:

A lawyer

I wouldn't think of telling I.H. or anyone else they should do something for my benefit against the advice of their lawyer. If the lawyers in this case decide that the technical details should remain forever secret, in some sort of settlement, that's the way things will be. Those of us in the peanut gallery will just have to live with that.

I hope that does not happen, because it will free Rossi to defraud someone else. Based on Lewan's interview I gather he is already doing that, in Europe.

I think I.H. is pretty upset and they will try to stop him.

Quote from Rigel

If you can, I would like your opinion on LENR, without Rossi's sidetrack.

Here is my take on the subject, in a greatly oversimplified 6-minute video I produced:

Thank goodness this does not mention Rossi or any form of Ni-H cold fusion. I wanted to avoid controversy. Here is more information, see "Explanatory Notes and Additional Resources":

http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=1618

Here is a paper I agree with. This was the main source for the video:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHcoldfusionb.pdf

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

The invention disclosed in a patent may be a complete fantasy or deliberate fraud. It is not illegal.

This is not correct.

Quote from stephenrenzz

I believe this is VERY significant point that those in the Rossi camp continue to ignore deeply in error. There is absolutely no logical reason that IH should not have been able to see the operation on the other side of the wall to know how the process is circulating back. It is also absurd that Rossi and/or Penon felt that it was not important to know where the water came from and where it was used. This SCREAMS shenanigans to me. Secrecy for the "unidentified customer" is not a valid excuse as an IH expert would be of no danger to the business operations of said customer by just seeing the heat/power side of the operation. Complete nonsense that the Rossi camp should really consider.

I agree that this is the weakest point for Rossi. The identity of the "secret" customer is bound to come out during litigation. It must and will happen.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax: “The invention disclosed in a patent may be a complete fantasy or deliberate fraud. It is not illegal.”

This is not correct.

Actually it is correct IHFB. The only thing that would happen is the patent would be rejected or revoked...there is not a legal mechanism for the device actually working as stated in the patent.

Quote from IH Fanboy

The identity of the "secret" customer is bound to come out during litigation.

It is out already. It was in the legal papers, and Rossi gave the name and address in his interview with Lewan. It is:

J.M. PRODUCTS, INC.

http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquiryType=DocumentNumber&aggregateId=domp-p14000056117-f1b317f1-99eb-48c8-9cce-18b618a70d75&directionType=Initial&searchNameOrder=JMCHEMICALPRODUCTS P140000561170&searchTerm=P14000056117

Formerly called J.M. Chemical Products:

http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/ConvertTiffToPDF?storagePath=COR%5C2014%5C0912%5C00206710.Tif&documentNumber=P14000056117

Here is an overhead view of the building, perhaps taken in 2014:

https://www.google.com/maps/@2…,204m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Quote from IH Fanboy

Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
The invention disclosed in a patent may be a complete fantasy or deliberate fraud. It is not illegal.

This is not correct.

Yes, that does not sound correct to me. David French would know. I had to fill out a patent application long ago, because I made a trivial contribution to the invention. You have to fill in an intimidating form swearing that everything you have declared is true and complete to the best of your knowledge under penalty of the law etc., etc. I think lying or making it up would be "right out" as they say in England.