ECNs dead.

    • Official Post

    http://ecatnews.com/?p=2702


    ECNs is dead. Sorry to hear. Cut my CF teeth there, and honed my believer arguments against the likes of Joshua, MY, Jami, JN... and so many others with exceptional skill's in the sciences, and other strengths. My favorite was Jay2011 (you still around?); an LENR researcher with a good attitude, that turned skep and left ECN's long ago. Also Dale, a gifted, and wealthy handy man...mechanically gifted like so many here, living on Maui (smoked too many joints if you ask me, but hey :) ). So many others, that it would be a disservice to compare, although, without doubt, Joshua/Popeye, was the most talented (as even TC said).


    Lots of bad too. Many that just went to vent and insult. Some actually disgusting. Very few were like that in the beginning, but it became the norm recently. ECNs became so toxic that it lost it's reason for being. Something for everyone here to consider?


    Paul Story was the Admin there, and lived in the swamps (hinterland) of Sweden I believe? Great guy. Said he had enough of Rossi long ago, but kept it open "just in case", and for us regulars there, but like so many, this latest Ecat Quark "report" was the final straw. Can not blame you Paul.

  • Almost the final comment he made, announcing the closing:

    Quote

    The sceptics were right.

    Ordinary skepticism is very, very often right. Pseudoskepticism is often right, but misses possibilities. It's cheap. Real skeptics will normally either investigate carefully, or leave the topic alone.


    CSICOP was founded in part by genuine skeptics, you can see it in the original name, Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. Some of the early skeptics founding that complained about the takeover of the organization by debunkers. The name change could reflect that: Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI). Notice that "scientific" is lost.


    From the Wikipedia article:

    Quote

    Marcello Truzzi, one of CSICOP's co-founders, left the organization after only a short time, arguing that many of those involved "tend to block honest inquiry, in my opinion. Most of them are not agnostic toward claims of the paranormal; they are out to knock them. [...] When an experiment of the paranormal meets their requirements, then they move the goal posts."[28] Truzzi coined the term pseudoskeptic to describe critics in whom he detected such an attitude.[29]


    Quote

    An early controversy concerned the so-called Mars effect: French statistician Michel Gauquelin's claim that champion athletes are more likely to be born when the planet Mars is in certain positions in the sky. In late 1975, prior to the formal launch of CSICOP, astronomer Dennis Rawlins, along with Paul Kurtz, George Abel and Marvin Zelen (all subsequent members of CSICOP) began investigating the claim. Rawlins, a founding member of CSICOP at its launch in May 1976, resigned in early 1980 claiming that other CSICOP researchers had used incorrect statistics, faulty science, and outright falsification in an attempt to debunk Gauquelin's claims. In an article for the pro-paranormal magazine Fate, he wrote: "I am still skeptical of the occult beliefs CSICOP was created to debunk. But I have changed my mind about the integrity of some of those who make a career of opposing occultism."

    When we are certain we are right, we will be less critical of evidence showing we are right than of evidence in the other direction. We may become radically careless. This is the problem with pseudoskepticism, it forgets to be skeptical of self. Rawlins quite correctly did not equate unethical debunking with the Mars Effect being real. Pseudoskepticism clouds the issue by generating irrelevant noise.


    What I would see in much pseudoskepticism is a dislike of mystery, which is, to me, related to basic survival mechanisms;' however, scientific inquiry must set aside these survival mechanisms or, at least, not imagine that they are some sort of scientific method. If one considers a claim preposterous and does not care to investigate it, fine. But becoming a crusader against it ... this could be evidence of *belief*, not skepticism.


    Pseudoskepticism is always in defense of "current understanding," without specifying who understands. It relies on vague concepts like, "the majority of scientists believe ...." when science is never a vote. Votes can decide the allocation of group resources, but are never scientific evidence of anything other than the opinions of the electorate.

  • Shane D.
    I did not post there but know the feeling. I have been following this (CF) b4 R. And I will after R.
    But I keep my mind open. And so far "nothing to see here".


    But I will not move along. We need real science.

    • Official Post

    Abd,


    Would you go to a funeral, pontificate and drone on like you do here? Saying little, or nothing to do with the dearly departed, but all about yourself?


    Please, you posted there on ECNs more than a few times. Have some respect for the dead, and keep it brief and to the point...for once!


    I am grieving after all.

  • At the end discussion there was not too healthy anymore, so probably good thing to close it totally if admin had no time to moderate it.


    It remains to see do we get TC back here, since he sometimes was venting in there with MY and others with strong opinions.

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