Blue light from LENR

  • There have been multiple reports of blue light emanating from LENR reactors. I purposely won't mention names or specific examples. This is purely an exploration of the science.
    For the sake of discussion, let's consider a situation where some element in a LENR cell emits photons from an ionized metal plasma under electrical or other stimulus.


    Each element has characteristic strong emission line(s). For example Na (Sodium) is at 589 nm (5890 Angstroms). This is the typical yellow color of Sodium Vapor street lamps.


    The blue part of the visible spectrum is roughly 420-480 nm. Refer to the list of metal vapor element/wavelengths at
    http://www.hamamatsu.com/jp/en/3014.html


    We see only the following candidates, with peak wavelengths in nano meters:
    Ca 422
    Sr 461
    Sm 430
    Eu 459
    Gd 423
    Tb 433


    Note that the emission wavelengths shown are for plasma-phase emission, not
    merely thermal as would be seen in a chemical flame test.


    Any of these could be present in the reactor. Calcium or Strontium may
    be present as oxides (both are used for catalytic production of
    biodiesel).


    Cherenkov radiation seems unlikely in this scenario, because the particles
    causing it would have to be relativistic, slower than C but still very fast (really big energy required!)


    The other possibility of course is the characteristic color of ionized air.
    The typical blue color of an electric arc in air is primarily due to the emissions of ionized Nitrogen:
    (Wiki) "Neutral nitrogen radiates primarily at one line in red part of the
    spectrum. Ionized nitrogen radiates primarily as a set of lines in blue
    part of the spectrum.[15] The strongest signals are the 443.3, 444.7,
    and 463.0 nm lines of singly ionized nitrogen"


    I hope these comments will start a constructive discussion of the possible science behind various reports of visible blue light from LENR. Please leave politics and opinion out of the dialog.


    AlanG


  • Fabiani said:


    Quote

    [/url]We have photographs of creatures that emit pure light that have completely melted the reactor down, all in a very quiet way. You just turn off the stimuli system and the reaction is switched off. It’s impressive.


    These plasmoids of light are similar to ball lightning. The Rossi's EMF stimulus system creates and distroys these balls of light. They are not derived by chemical processes as AlanG assumes. They spring from EMF processes emanating from nanoparticles. The name science gives them are Surface Plasmon Polaritons (SPP) but what are they?


    I explain how the nanoplasmonic waveform : Whispering Gallery Waves" upshift infrared photons into the XUV and x-ray range.


    There is an interference mechanism called Fano resonance that enables the photons to upshift.


    See:


    Predictions

  • That conflicts with below Mr Rossis response I quoted erlier in preliminary report thread. Interesting question now is that is he trying to mislead readers by talking about different wavelengths?
    Tuesday in JONP he seemed to share same understanding of theory of LENR with some CERN scientist. That shared understanding was based on specific blueish color reader referred to. (I dont have link in hand, but exchange can be found dated tue-wed this week)



    From Rossi Blog reader, I haven't seen this mentioned before. Voids speculation of source of blue light seen in picture?

  • This is an interesting exchange with CERN researcher I referred above: Link http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=126#comment-1198336



    Mr Rossis response:

  • To me the style (words, trext, "Cheers") fits unfortunately to many other "Q&A" on JONP and could explain nothing but a wish from somebody... Why is he not adding more information to his report, even if he only thinks he knows what it is? So it remains more a mystery then a milestone...

  • This is an interesting exchange with CERN researcher I referred above: Link http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=126#comment-1198336



    Mr Rossis response:


    Ionization of the air does not make sense. The blue light produced is 1/2 the energy output of the reactor and it is optional. The reactor could produce all its energy as infrared photons.


    The blue nitrogen glow is caused by


    Cathode rays in air produce this blue glow.


    Electrical discharge in air is the cause of blue light emitted by electric sparks, lightning, and corona discharges (e.g. St. Elmo's fire).


    Auroras, the sometimes observable blue-violet hues emitted by nitrogen at lower altitudes


    The electrical discharge cannot produce more light energy than electrical energy causation. The Quark reactor produces only 10% of its power as electrical discharge and 50% of it power output as light. That percentage of power production is untenable if electrons are producing the blue light. All that light production must come from a primary power source and not a secondary result of the primary power emminations.


    It is possible that the blue light is coming from an undetected sub-atomic particle emission that Rossi has not detected yet like muons. But that is a ton of muons and the metal shield would not stop the light from coming through the metal.


    If Rossi had taken a spectrum of the light, he would not have found the nitrogen emission lines but a continuous spectrum much like the spectrum of x-rays detected in the MFMP experiments. A continuous spectrum is the mark of photonic light production from whispering gallery waves.

  • That conflicts with below Mr Rossis response I quoted erlier in preliminary report thread. Interesting question now is that is he trying to mislead readers by talking about different wavelengths?
    Tuesday in JONP he seemed to share same understanding of theory of LENR with some CERN scientist. That shared understanding was based on specific blueish color reader referred to. (I dont have link in hand, but exchange can be found dated tue-wed this week)


    He's talking about three different spectrometers to measure the light.

  • Thanks Alan you are right. I didn't see Oystens question at first look and mixed with comment few weeks back where I think was mentioned 3 qarks going under test.
    So I guess wavelength of Quarkx itself is not tunable then. Other colors indirectly via blackbody radiation by tuning temp?


    Sorry for confusion.

  • If the blue light were caused by electrons passing through a small hole in the metal protection shield, pin hole interference pattern would be seen.



    Yet, there does look like some of the light was produced outside of the hole.



    Photo Courtesy of Engineer 48.


    There does look like there is light production outside of the protection shield but the means of production is not electrons. The cause looks like it is activating at random over a wide spread distance after it has been dispersed through the pinhole and mixed in the air. Muons are a possible cause or exotic neutral particles(ENP) might be doing it. These ENP ball lightning like objects are what Fabiani is describing when he talks about points of light melting down a Rossi reactor. Rossi said that not only intense light must be shielded but also other things. ENP might be produced and released in abundance in the Quark reactor. There is some sort of reactive element coming out of that reactor.


    Frank Acland:
    4. You say the photo was taken through a hole in a pipe — are the QuarkXs enclosed in a pipe during normal operation to provide eye protection?


    Rossi:


    4- to provide protection not just to the eyes

  • @magicsound
    I think the blue light comes form the Extreme Ultraviolet emitted when Hydronions form (see my theory).
    Only Randell Mills measured it directly. Possibly me356 has measured it as well. You need good gratings. EUV disappears as soon as matter is in its way. I don't know what to comment about the claims of Rossi.
    The first stage of the EMNR emits a lot of EUV, and some X rays. The second stage can emit also more energetic X and gammas. EUV are responsible for most of the thermal energy. The mechanism of formation of the Hyd fractionate into EUV. Swartz measured non-thermal near IR and attributed it to Bremsstrahlung.

  • @magicsound


    See post


    New Developments at Brilliant Light Power (Video)


    The XUV and X-ray line seen in MFMP segment 7, marks the onset of polariton condensation. All the incoherent radiation stored in the nanocavities are flushed as the polaritons become a BEC through their entanglement with the hole pairs of the electron hole dipoles.


    I speculate that the EMF trigger which is so elusive forces this entanglement between the dipole electrons and the photons in the nanocavities thus establishing a BEC of polaritons.


    Rossi states that if you understand the nature of the blue light, you know how LENR works. That blue light is laser light produced by coherent BEC based polaritons.

  • @axil & Andrea


    If you follow the link at the end of my last post, you will see the remarkable resemblance of the "blue light" image to a Fusor operating with Nitrogen plasma. I think this resemblance is more than coincidental, and would like to consider possible physical configurations of a tubular form-factor reactor that could support Fusor-like electrostatic confinement. This might include nano scale quantum effects such as SPPs.

  • @axil & Andrea


    If you follow the link at the end of my last post, you will see the remarkable resemblance of the "blue light" image to a Fusor operating with Nitrogen plasma. I think this resemblance is more than coincidental, and would like to consider possible physical configurations of a tubular form-factor reactor that could support Fusor-like electrostatic confinement. This might include nano scale quantum effects such as SPPs.


    It has been recently discovered the SPP produce a "high-energy side-peak emission" whose frequency is related to the density of photons confined in the optical cavity. I will shortly write a post on this feature which might explain where the blue light is coming from.


    For a preview of my post see


    http://phys.org/news/2016-06-s…einstein-condensates.html


    Talk about word salad... this field is very hard to understand but Rossi now believes that the explanation for LENR can be found therein.

  • In an interview with Darden nearly a year [or more?] ago, he indicated that Rossi had a surprisingly good grasp of theoretical aspects of his work [I paraphrase out of laziness].


    Now, I wonder what Mr. Darden might say of his one time enamoratus?

  • Darden nearly a year [or more?] ago, he indicated that Rossi had a surprisingly good grasp of theoretical aspects of his work


    Does Darden have any qualifications in the field of theoretical physics to make a judgement? Or was this just a salesman's flattering?


    you will see the remarkable resemblance of the "blue light"


    The human eye is a very poor analyser when it comes to interpreting colors. Perhaps any ressemblace would be clearer if spectra were published. Wishful thinking is not a substitute for scientific data.