Have IH let their E-Cat License lapse by inaction?

  • Alan Smith wrote:
    It may well be revealed in a patent Jed.


    If it is revealed in the patent, then it is not secret. Right? Maybe I don't follow what you are saying.


    Well, maybe you haven't read them, or are just teasing. For example, in the early italian patent application (rejected) which relates to a 'lithium-free' system, under claims it says


    "...5. An apparatus for carrying out an exothermal reaction by a method according to claim 1, characterized in that said apparatus comprises a metal tube filled by a nickel powder and heated to a set temperature, hydrogen being further injected into said metal tube. 6. An apparatus according to claim 5, characterized in that said nickel powder contains catalyzer materials.7. An apparatus according to claim 5, characterized in that said hydrogen is injected into said tube under a non-constant pulsating pressure.8. An apparatus according to claim 5, characterized in that said temperature is variable. 9. An apparatus according to claim 5, characterized in that said nickel powder filled metal tube is coated, on an outside thereof, by a jacket of water and boron, or steel and boron, and by a lead layer.10. An apparatus according to claim 9, characterized in that said lead layer is coated by a steel layer.11. An apparatus according to claim 5, characterized in that said apparatus comprises a steel pipe therethrough a flow of water, or other fluid, is caused to flow, said steel pipe being anempted in a heat exchanging relationship with said metal tube.12. An apparatus according to claim 5, characterized in that said nickel powder is a nickel isotope powder.13. An apparatus according to claim 5, characterized in that said nickel powder is replaceable by a copper powder.

    I have emboldened the appropriate parts of this extract. So here we have 'catalyzer materials' un-named, and also copper. In a later patent Rossi throws in the idea that nickel could be substituted with 'any element from column 10 of the periodic table for example platinum...'.


    So here you have a handful of named elements, plus un-named 'catalyzer materials.'


    I dont give a flying fuck wether or not the patent(s) are valid or not, my question for Dewey Weaver (as you seem not to know) was 'is there a secret sauce'. In plain language is one of the other materials mentioned (or any other) used by Rossi in the fuel he showed IH how to make? Not too hard, shirley?

  • The idea to use Li was probably something Rossi got from Sven K. Rossi
    believed that p+7Li --> 2 alphas would not give any external
    radiation (high energy gammas, neutrons). This is of course incorrect.


    I had heard that the Lithium idea came from Professor Roland Pettersen. But your version may be better.

  • Also found this interesting comment from nckhawk in the archive ... Rember; at this time there was no complaint, IH thought they still had Rossi in a NDA leash, but become worried when it dawned upon them that they had not recieved quarkX IP ... and at that time this was a problem because they did not intend to pay ... bad move Dewey. Bad move ... You're f***ed.

    The quoted comment appears as a standard forum quote, but there is no link to the original. On his blog, Sifferkoll has many quotations, but no links to substantiate them. This would be nckhawk: https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/User/906-nckhawk/ this shows "no posts": https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Search/?types%5B%5D=com.woltlab.wbb.post&userID=906


    This would be him: https://disqus.com/by/nckhawk/ The information being given by nckhawk shows "insider," as Dewey Weaver is (i.e., Dewey is an investor in IH and has some level of information directly from IH, and, in at least one case, from direct witnessing of Rossi in action.) I assume nckhawk is Dewey (which I think is known). E-Cat World does not timestamp posts but only shows vague dating, which sucks. Sifferkoll might have some sort of feed with dates, such as email notifications.


    The oldest post shown that is relevant to Rossi is this, from "a year ago":

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    Not positive about the details but believe that Rossi purchased some of those licenses back after the long delays. I think that Darden's willingness to work with Rossi on Rossi's terms was the only way that Rossi was going to get any big cash to work with. The world would likely have been left with years of additional LENR delays (which may still happen) if Darden would not have stepped up. Yours are the hollow words in my opinion.

    In hindsight, a clear comment. We now know that nckhawk was actually an investor, and understood that IH was working with Rossi "on Rossi's terms." And he knew, as well, that there could be "years of delay." Why? By that time, he knew that IH had been unable to verify the IP, but he did not know how the 1 MW test would turn out.


    Then, "three/four months ago," NCkhawk makes a series of posts, reacting to the IH announcement that Rossi denied showed any "divorce" with IH, and his posts are obviously critical of Rossi. An early one:

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    NCkhawk 3 months ago


    I think that the statement from IH is interesting and informative and seems intended as a high-ground positioning move. I am wondering why Rossi hasn't mentioned it on JNOP? Instead he has just referenced an old Darden interview with Marianne Macy that references "competitors". His David vs Goliath Q &A also seems quite strange as well. Is anyone else getting the feeling that the Q&A narrative is contrived? I sense is that we're moving into a very interesting and entertaining season.

    At this point, it was almost certainly clear that IH was not going to pay. This comment is explicit:

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    NCkhawk Bob Greenyer 3 months ago


    Such an interesting observation - unfortunately, for many reasons, Krivit may end up being the only one to have interpreted things correctly.

    All this shows is that, possibly in a few weeks before the lawsuit, Nckhawk had inside information. He was not a "loudmouth." This is what Sifferkoll quoted, believing, as people with his kind of thinking often believe, that it is some kind of smoking gun that he has cleverly found:

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    What happened to the E-Cat 1MW factory and all of that excitement of just 6 or 8 weeks ago? How (and why) have the gears changed this quickly? I hope it is all true but this all defies logic and has to remain in the realm of the nearly impossible until he proves otherwise....I don’t see how Rossi has innovated from a 1MW shipping container to a 100W “quark” so quickly. He claimed safety certification for the 1MW shipping before the start of his 1 year test. His bait, buy time and switch tactics continue. Regarding the 1MW system to the latest, that is like going from a one-off of the Model-T prototype to full scale production of a Prius and / or Leaf in 1 year’s time. It all reads as if he is up to something to me and I’m concerned about it. Cold Fusion research is just now broadly coming back to life and the sector cannot afford a big deception – that is why I am urging caution and sobriety while anticipating some trouble ahead.

    I could not find the original to this. It is two comments, perhaps a month apart, collapsed into one. I recommend reviewing the Nckhawk posts, there is a lot of information and cogent argument there. There is this:

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    NCkhawk Pekka Janhunen 4 months ago


    Considering the pace of progress from the multitude of very credible scientist in CF over the past 25 years, it is inconceivable that Rossi is making this much progress in such short order. What happened to the E-Cat 1MW factory and all of that excitement of just 6 or 8 weeks ago? How (and why) have the gears changed this quickly? I hope it is all true but this all defies logic and has to remain in the realm of the nearly impossible until he proves otherwise.

    And then there is

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    NCkhawk psi2u2 3 months ago


    I disagree. It really would be fantastic if I'm wrong - I was pro-Rossi until it dawned on me that we may be in the process of being tricked. I don't see how Rossi has innovated from a 1MW shipping container to a 100W "quark" so quickly. He claimed safety certification for the 1MW shipping before the start of his 1 year test. His bait, buy time and switch tactics continue. Regarding the 1MW system to the latest, that is like going from a one-off of the Model-T prototype to full scale production of a Prius and / or Leaf in 1 year's time. It all reads as if he is up to something to me and I'm concerned about it. Cold Fusion research is just now broadly coming back to life and the sector cannot afford a big deception - that is why I am urging caution and sobriety while anticipating some trouble ahead.


    In his process of constructing his conspiracy theory, Sifferkoll puts together those posts as made at the same time, to make the claim more plausible that the first concern was the Quark-X. Sifferkoll's blog posts demonstrate a consistent misunderstanding of the legal situation. IH bought the full IP from Rossi for $10 million in 2013. That includes improvements, and there is no provision for cancellation of that agreement. Nonpayment would not cause that, it would, if the Agreement was fulfilled, cause a debt to appear. However, if the Agreement was fulfilled, the IP would be well worth that $89 million and it could easily be raised. In order to maintain a semblance of coherence, then, Sifferkoll must claim lying and fraud on the part of IH (as does Rossi).


    However, the nckhawk posts are entirely consistent with this:

    • Nckhawk is an investor in IH.
    • Nckhawk wrote based on insider information that an investor may have.
    • Nckhawk was mildly deceptive, i.e., made statements that would make it appear that he was speculating, when he actually knew.
    • Nckhawk behaved subsequently as an irate investor might behave.
    • Nckhawk was sober and cautious at first, then, probably as attacked, he got hotter.
    • Factual assertions by Nckhawk have proven true, as far as I have seen. Conclusions posted by him are generally plausible and could conceivably be established in court.

    And, yes, Nckhawk is Dewey Weaver, who also has the same record (except he is now open about his identity.)


    Here are other comments.

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    NCkhawk Mats Lewan 3 months ago


    Mats - thank you for the thoughtful reply. I'm having hard time with so many people accepting everything that Rossi says these days as truth. In the history of invention, has there ever been such a maniacal period of progress in theory and application? The answer is no. Rossi may be a genius in many ways but there is no way that he can turn a 1MW steam engine that is the size of a shipping container into an electricity producing quark and solve the theory all in 3 months time (apparently all by himself). My guess is that he got busted by IH and has to break out on his own (which seems to be a repeated pattern) in order to continue whatever it is that he is up to. Again, I want to be wrong and time will tell but for your own sake, please keep your eyes wide open and continue ahead with the utmost of caution..


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    NCkhawk Mats Lewan 3 months ago


    Mats - Is there a chance that Rossi is operating outside of agreements with IH? Have you taken into account Rossi's history of using half-truth to suite his purposes? These things must be considered here.


    For whatever reason, you are personally raising the stakes to a very high level right now. You may already be crossing the point of no return. LENR doesn't need another high profile failure right now. You will have responsibility for raising a lot of potentially harmful hype and interest. You risk taking a lot of people down with you if you are getting tricked by Rossi. Sober up man and stop believing EVERYTHING that Rossi is feeding you! This is getting beyond ridiculous.


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    NCkhawk Curbina 2 months ago


    Curbina - Frank has had a habit of deleting my post lately so I'm not sure that you'll see this. IH wanted to test the referenced 1MW unit in Raleigh before shipping it to Miami but Rossi insisted that was a waste of time. he did the same thing for the Lugano reactors. The "ERV" report / data, which will be soon released, will give you the answers you need to make a final decision. The reactors that IH did build and test in their lab, per Rossi's instructions, sadly never produced even a watt of excess heat.


    So.. there is one relatively well-informed insider leaking information about the affair. That's Dewey Weaver. There is another person with some level of direct information, Mats Lewan. Mats was apparently out of communication with Rossi for a long time, but continued to react, with shallow opinion and much less fact. By this time, Dewey was expecting his post might be deleted. That could be from posts including flames, but it could also be because they were being interpreted as hostile trolling.


    Jed Rothwell is not an insider, but sometimes has been given inside information. I am neither, in this area. I'm an outside analyst and writer.

  • It may well be that in the early system's that Rossi produced used potassium as the catalyst. This LENR catalyst was well known in LENR research and was open souce having been revealed in the early LENR experiments at thermocore. Potassium could be a low temperature LENR catalyst with a LENR reaction temperature ceiling since Rossi's early systems were temperature limited.

  • Argon - Thanks for the effort. It's very simple. Rossi can have peace by buying back the IH license and the IH 1MW unit for $11.5M along with standard terms for when parties end agreements. He has a limited window of opportunity to move. There is only truth and zero testosterone in the prospect of treble damages. In the interim, IH is proceeding with it's gameplan.

  • Alan - there is the version of the secret sauce that Rossi shared with IH. It didn't work.
    Who knows if there are other iterations out there or not.


    It looks like the Rossi reaction requires a number of ingredients to fire off and operate. Besides the chemical catalyst, a EMF stimulation method and/or pressure oscillations is required to be applied to the chemical mixture. Fabiani would have known about the EMF stimulation since he built the Rossi electronic control system. Is it possible that Fabiani held back important reactor startup data form IH when he was an employee of IH?


    If Fabiani held back critical reaction initiation data as an employee, could Rossi be held responsible for this IH employees behavior?

  • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
    But normies dislike it, even as a joke.


    Normies Abd? Normies? What's a Normie when it's home?

    Well, Alan, perhaps you should ask before downvoting, if you don't know what a word means. "Normie" I first heard among those with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, which is associated with high intelligence, and some think it is a genetic variation, essentially hunter/gatherers vs farmers. ADHD is also associated with a degree of social dysfunction. (That is why it is called a "disorder," specifically a "developmental disorder.") Those with ADHD, if they are fortunate, learn to factor for that.


    However, here, I was then applying it to how most people think. It is not the case, and I did not state, that intelligent people do not also dislike flame warring. However, I've been involved with on-line conferencing since the 1980s,I was a moderator on the W.E.L.L. As an observer and sometimes participant, I know the psychology.

  • Well, Alan, perhaps you should ask before downvoting, if you don't know what a word means. "Normie" I first heard among those with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, which is associated with high intelligence, and some think it is a genetic variation, essentially hunter/gatherers vs farmers. ADHD is also associated with a degree of social dysfunction. (That is why it is called a "disorder," specifically a "developmental disorder.") Those with ADHD, if they are fortunate, learn to factor for that.


    I think it is in very bad taste in this instance. Thank you for the mini-lecture on ADHD, but it was entirely unnecessary, on a good day I can even tie my own shoes. As for downvoting....Moi?

  • With regard to the "secret sauce" not being revealed in the patent or to IH:


    Question? Is it possible for an inventor to file a patent at such time BEFORE they have established their own secret sauce, and later amend the patent to include the secret. This would seem to buy the inventor (Rossi in this case) time to develop the invention (i.e. to make it work).


    Everything I read says that Rossi actually believes himself, that he can make an Ecat work. But he may have discovered over the ensuing 3 years that the older experimental measurements that he made were not reliable and thus that he did not "have the proof" that he would need to include (as the formula for making it work) in the patent. He may have taken the money from IH to buy himself time and a stronger team on development, i.e. that he believed in it. When time ran out after the 1 year 1 MW test, he may be buying more time. This fits my model of Rossi -- the man thinks he has it, but cannot yet deliver the goods to the public via patent, or to IH via trade secret formula. He may be self-deluded.


    This hypothesis makes Rossi himself a true believer who cannot give up on his invention even if he can't get it to work for himself. For Rossi, this would be agonizing, unless he simply denies the possibility of failure. In this scenario, Rossi is stuck and by buying time, or perhaps more investment, he thinks he can invent himself out of the tough spot he finds himself in.


    I say this as we the public have not yet seen any hard evidence that any Ecat has COP significantly greater than 1. We only have the inventor's (Rossi's) statements on his blog and the old public "reports" which were in my opinion inconclusive.


    And so we wait and see what new evidence comes out in the coming months and years.

  • If Fabiani held back critical reaction initiation data as an employee, could Rossi be held responsible for this IH employees behavior?

    If Rossi induced that and if that could be shown (say, by Fabiani testimony), yes. He could. There are lots of people who have been involved, who have been under non-disclosure agreements. If the case goes to trial, the covers may come off, either for all of us, or confidentially, for the court. Dewey has been saying lots of things that, at this point, we have no corroboration of. Many of them could readily be established in court, if they happened as he says.


    I just went over the history of nckhawk, Dewey's apparent prior discussion name. Nothing that Dewey said has been shown to be false, plenty has been shown to be at least reasonable as a "heads up!"


    On the other hand, Rossi lied on JONP, about the situation with IH, shortly before he filed suit. Rossi has made deceptive statements over and over, so ... my bets are on Dewey.

  • "Abd" wrote:

    there is one relatively well-informed insider leaking information about the affair.


    I'd say he is more than that. He is more or less Dardens right hand and hitman assigned to negotiate IP acquisitions etc. And more... So he is more than an insider. He is core.


    You're correct. All quotes are from Disqus. Not hard to find. And they are more or less from the period close before and after the complaint was filed.


    Of course you call my writings "conspiracy theory". ... It's in you job description to do so. Oh yes. You're an outside analyst and writer ... Right... Could be ... or not ... We dont know, do we?


    However, what I argue, and what you fail to comment, is the change in attitude before/after complaint was filed. I argue that before the complaint the MW test was not an important issue to IH, only the, at that time, recently surfaced quarkX IP ... After the complaint due to payment not made focus moved to slandering the ERV and the also the rediculous sauna theory surfaced. Focus was moved to argue COMPLETE fraud instead of; lack of tech support. Reading Weaver comments for this period is very revealing. Everybody can see that, even you though you pretend not to ...


    This has nothing to do with conspiracies, only with reading and analyzing comments in a time frame. Something I guess some people would like not to do, eh???

  • With regard to the "secret sauce" not being revealed in the patent or to IH:


    Question? Is it possible for an inventor to file a patent at such time BEFORE they have established their own secret sauce, and later amend the patent to include the secret. This would seem to buy the inventor (Rossi in this case) time to develop the invention (i.e. to make it work).

    Yes. It's possible.


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    Everything I read says that Rossi actually believes himself, that he can make an Ecat work. But he may have discovered over the ensuing 3 years that the older experimental measurements that he made were not reliable and thus that he did not "have the proof" that he would need to include (as the formula for making it work) in the patent.

    It's actually moot for obtaining the patent and later enforcement, as long as the patent is completed within the time.


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    He may have taken the money from IH to buy himself time and a stronger team on development, i.e. that he believed in it. When time ran out after the 1 year 1 MW test, he may be buying more time. This fits my model of Rossi -- the man thinks he has it, but cannot yet deliver the goods to the public via patent, or to IH via trade secret formula. He may be self-deluded.

    Yes. Possible. And in fact consistent with other "eccentric inventors." However, this theory assumes that Rossi sold something to IH that he did not have. And then was not honest with them. Publicly, he was calling them his "partners," but he never trusted them, it appears, and he apparently ignored their requests.


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    This hypothesis makes Rossi himself a true believer who cannot give up on his invention even if he can't get it to work for himself. For Rossi, this would be agonizing, unless he simply denies the possibility of failure. In this scenario, Rossi is stuck and by buying time, or perhaps more investment, he thinks he can invent himself out of the tough spot he finds himself in.

    Could be. However, what this means is that none of the existing patents are valid, because they do not include adequate information to make working devices. It is not necessary -- ordinarily -- to prove workability. Unworkable ideas can be patented, as long as they are not blatantly impossible (in which case the Patent Office may be able to reject them).


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    I say this as we the public have not yet seen any hard evidence that any Ecat has COP significantly greater than 1. We only have the inventor's (Rossi's) statements on his blog and the old public "reports" which were in my opinion inconclusive.


    And so we wait and see what new evidence comes out in the coming months and years.

    Yes.

  • Question? Is it possible for an inventor to file a patent at such time BEFORE they have established their own secret sauce, and later amend the patent to include the secret. This would seem to buy the inventor (Rossi in this case) time to develop the invention (i.e. to make it work).


    Rossi's goal is an industrial product. He needed expertice from others to build a boiler to convert the heat output from his reactor to steam. He also had to demonstrate a long operational life for his fuel load. IH mainly contributed the design of the LENR boiler. Fabiani, a IH employee, produced the electronic control system that enabled the cat/mouse control protocol to greatly boost the COP of the reactor cluster configuration. Rossi came up with that innovation when collaborating with IH.


    It is impossible for one person to develop and perfect a marketable nuclear reactor on his own so in order to accelerate LENR reactor development, he teamed with IH.

  • "Maaaary" wrote:

    Just out of curiosity, why can others, like Jed, use the F word in connection with Rossi and if I do it, I get censored? Rudely censored.


    You actually got a point there Mary. Jed, Dewey et al. should absolutely be moderated if using the "f" word. I completely agree. :D

  • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:


    I think it is in very bad taste in this instance.

    Yes. You do.

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    Thank you for the mini-lecture on ADHD, but it was entirely unnecessary, on a good day I can even tie my own shoes.

    Do you remember that you asked?

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    As for downvoting....Moi?

    Yes, toi. With Sifferkoll. Great company you keep. Sifferkoll seems to downvote about everything of mine, regardless. For example, at this point: Have IH let their E-Cat License lapse by inaction?, which was purely helpful and which was accepted as such by the person who asked the question. That pattern, I have not seen from you. I would guess that here you thought I was encouraging Dewey to Flame away. Actually, not, and I was explicit. I merely showed that I understood the attraction of it. Meawhile, Sifferkoll continues on the attack.