Jed Rothwell on an Unpublished E-Cat Test Report that “Looks Like it Worked”

    Quote from joshua cude

    In contrast, hot fusion has never claimed ignition (self-sustained reaction), or that hot fusion products were imminent or ready for market, or that factories have already been heated by hot fusion.


    You have forgotten the Sun, which is doing some LENR like fusion to heat most factories.



    Quote from axil

    Hot fusion will not work because the NRC will reject it.


    The Boron "hot" fusion is very promising. It's a real, well calculated scientific approach.


    ITER is just d(e)addy cool's brain in a big bowl, waiting for his first flash... (( brackets for MY))

    Quote from frankwtu

    A bit like you putting all your trust in Rossi's data. Hmmmmmm! Is that trust unwarranted also?


    No, I do not put all my trust in it. I do not need to. I have corroborating evidence. But I am sure it is real because Rossi would not publish fake data that shows his reactor is producing no heat. Why would he do that? If anything, he might publish fake data showing the effect is real.


    Mind you, some of the data is fake. For example, he erased the pressure data and replaced it with 0.0 bar. The original pressure figures showed there was no heat. These numbers show the reactor was in interstellar space in a perfect vacuum. I suppose.

    Quote from joshua cude

    It lost its acclaim when the evidence failed to support it, and scientists became skeptical of its veracity.


    To the contrary, cold fusion lost its acclaim when certain hot fusion scientists from MIT altered experimental evidence, and then carefully constructed a reputation trap in concert with scientists from Caltech, so that anyone claiming positive results (and there were hundreds) or even being associated with cold fusion became scientific pariahs. This, in a stomach churning bid to save their flow of hot fusion funding. Link.

    Quote from joshua cude

    Even if this claim were true (and I don't believe it), many others examined the evidence -- in particular, two panels of experts enlisted by the DOE -- and found the evidence for nuclear reactions unpersuasive.


    Not exactly. The second panel was given two questions:


    1. ‘Is cold fusion a nuclear effect’: 10 said No, 6 said Yes, and 2 answers were unclear or undecided.


    2. ‘Should this research be funded’: 3 said No, 13 said Yes, and 2 did not respond to the question.


    You can read all of their responses here:


    http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=455

    Rothwell wrote:


    Quote

    me:


    Just as globes are meaningless to members of the Flat Earth Society, and evolution does not exist as far as Creationists are concerned.


    Exactly, and if were to offer an example of a scientific truth to a creationist for some purpose, you would not choose evolution.


    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."― Neil deGrasse Tyson


    Quite true, but beside the point.


    "Look what happened when [P&F] claimed in a press conference to have created "cold" nuclear fusion on their laboratory table. Scientists acted swiftly and skeptically. Within days of the announcement it was clear that no one could replicate the cold fusion results that P&F claimed. Their work was summarily dismissed." -- Neil degrasse Tyson

    Quote from joshua cude

    It is inconceivable that the MIT scientists would risk scientific misconduct by suppressing positive results


    As inconceivable as it may seem, it happened. The history in cold fusion is rich and well-documented. There is no skirting the reality that this is a scandal of great proportions, which has not yet been settled. And as much as you would wish this phenomena away, it will be with all of us for a long time to come. Might as well warm up to that fact.

    Frank, With respect to Rossi's criminality, you overlook Krivit's documentation of news articles and Gary Wright's meticulous documentation of emails and papers from distributor Green and from Rossi himself. You overlook lie after lie in JONP. You overlook the fraud perpetrated on DOD who paid a total of $9M, $2M direct to Rossi, for 27 pieces of junk Rossi got for a few dollars from a San Diego company. You overlook the purchased PhD from a diploma mill... and much much more evidence of being untrustworthy and having a criminal history. You don't even believe Darden when he says the ecats don't work. Instead, you accept Rossi's self serving garbage web page instead. Shame on you.


    @Wyttenbach


    The claims of replication of P&F were mostly not lies but rather mistakes, mostly measurement errors-- it's a very difficult measurement to make correctly. And if the successful replicators had been right, we'd be awash in them and in credible and reliable cold fusion research right now. But we're not, are we? Instead, cold fusion is now the province of whack jobs, crooks, and delusional optimists.

    Quote from joshua cude

    "Look what happened when [P&F] claimed in a press conference to have created "cold" nuclear fusion on their laboratory table. Scientists acted swiftly and skeptically. Within days of the announcement it was clear that no one could replicate the cold fusion results that P&F claimed. Their work was summarily dismissed." -- Neil degrasse Tyson


    Don't you think such actions and statements were capricious and premature? Especially since P&F made clear that it took weeks for the hydrogen loading to complete as a prerequisite to a successful experiment? And further explorations made clear that the palladium also required unique characteristics? And yet, the whole field was summarily dismissed within days of the announcement.

    Rothwell wrote:


    Quote

    me:


    Not exactly. The second panel was given two questions:


    1. ‘Is cold fusion a nuclear effect’: 10 said No, 6 said Yes, and 2 answers were unclear or undecided.


    This is not true.


    Only one said the evidence for nuclear reactions was conclusive. One or two found the evidence compelling but were explicit in stating it was not conclusive.


    The summary document states: " The preponderance of the reviewers’ evaluations indicated that Charge Element 2, the occurrence of low energy nuclear reactions, is not conclusively demonstrated by the evidence presented. One reviewer believed that the occurrence was demonstrated, and several reviewers did not address the question. "


    Quote

    2. ‘Should this research be funded’: 3 said No, 13 said Yes, and 2 did not respond to the question.


    This is not true either. None of the members recommended funding outright. They recommended that "funding agencies should entertain individual well-designed proposals... [that] should meet accepted scientific standards and undergo the rigors of peer review".


    That is the job of funding agencies, so it was a sop to the applicants, after a critical review.


    The implication is that the proposal in front of them did *not* meet the necessary standards for the allocation of funds, which was unanimously rejected.

    Mary


    Quote from Mary Yugo

    Frank, With respect to Rossi's criminality, you overlook Krivit's documentation of news articles and Gary Wright's meticulous documentation of emails and papers from distributor Green and from Rossi himself. You overlook lie after lie in JONP. You overlook the fraud perpetrated on DOD who paid a total of $9M, $2M direct to Rossi, for 27 pieces of junk Rossi got for a few dollars from a San Diego company. You overlook the purchased PhD from a diploma mill... and much much more evidence of being untrustworthy and having a criminal history. You don't even believe Darden when he says the ecats don't work. Instead, you accept Rossi's self serving garbage web page instead. Shame on you.


    Grateful if you could post a link to the related court cases and what penalties that were imposed by the court on Rossi for these?


    I understand he appealed all his convictions and was successful in all but a couple of tax related convictions, how this has any relationship to his e-cat claims I do not know. But I await your links to the cases you describe. Don't worry if you cannot refer to new cases against Rossi we are used to your ways now. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt' Cases Mary evidence, fact.


    Best regards
    Frank

    IH fanboy wrote:


    Quote

    me:


    Don't you think such actions and statements were capricious and premature? Especially since P&F made clear that it took weeks for the hydrogen loading to complete as a prerequisite to a successful experiment? And further explorations made clear that the palladium also required unique characteristics? And yet, the whole field was summarily dismissed within days of the announcement.


    Well, NDT exaggerates a little. I put the quote in to show that he is a skeptic of cold fusion in spite of the quote Rothwell provided.


    It took some 40 days for the tide to turn. And those 40 days seemed to be enough for some to claim replication. But it was not only the failure of most to replicate, but also the examination of the evidence that P&F presented that led to widespread skepticism. They had been given the benefit of the doubt, but when the sloppiness of their paper became apparent, particularly their amateur mistake with respect to neutron detection, their credibility was lost.

    Rothwell wrote:


    Quote

    me:


    That's my tally, and I am sticking with it. Go through the answers and tally them yourself if you disagree.


    I've read them in detail, and my tally disagrees, as I said. But more importantly, your tally is contrary to the summary statement, which would have been signed off by all the members.

    Frank, We've been through all this many times and I am not going to review all that again for the juiciest morsels. Krivit's damning summary of Rossi's extensive criminality is here:


    1. Starting point: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…nvestigation-Index2.shtml


    2. Specifically about criminality: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…al-Criminal-History.shtml


    Yes, Rossi beat some of the charges on statutes of limitations and other technicalities. But the facts of what he did with Petroldragon and the millions and millions of dollars of environmental damage he did to the province are clearly documented in the articles cited by Krivit.


    Wright's evidence is hard to reference because Wright is pretty disorganized. But he says it suggests that Rossi could have spent years in prison around and after the year 2000. I did not study the evidence for this extensively. One thing for sure, Rossi's tendency to lie all the time is well documented in his silly, misnamed blog, JONP (or perhaps you think it's a journal of nuclear science?) Thus, you can not believe anything Rossi writes about himself on his web site. Or do you really think he was a world class bicyclist? And that he earned a PhD in physics from ... oh... it was a diploma mill.


    Do we really have to cover this stuff again and again, after even Darden has defrocked Rossi? Were you not paying attention all along the way?

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