I was wrong about Rossi, but what I fear most is that I might be partly right

Jed I hope you realize sooner than later that you're being played by nefarious entities

Quote from JedRothwell

It is painful to admit I was wrong. It worries me that I was so wrong. But what worries me even more is the possibility that I might have been partially right, and Rossi might have something after all. If he does, he may have destroyed any prospect of developing it. He has destroyed his discovery, himself, and his friends such as Lewan with years of irresponsible, outrageous behavior, betrayal, lies, and bad experiments. This would be tragic for mankind. I would spare no sympathy for Rossi. He brought this on himself.

Ah, Jed, cut yourself some slack. You called it as you saw it, then. I was only slightly more reserved, pointing out how difficult it was distinguish between fake fraud (i.e., Rossi's presentation of appearance ) and real fraud pretending to be fake fraud. There was one brief period when I considered the preponderance of the evidence was toward the Rossi Effect being real. Joshua Cude always trots that out. But it was simply a comment on how things looked then, until analysis went deeper.

The condition to worry about is not being wrong, that easily happens, but attachment to being right. That is where science goes down the drain.

I do not see Rossi's condition as tragic for mankind. It's tragic for him. There are now many people investigating NiH. There is now a more widespread caution about over-enthusiasm. And the Rossi logjam, that was slowing down other research, has been dynamited, by Rossi himself, by filing the lawsuit. A year ago, I was promoting further basic research with PdD, and I was getting responses that this was all moot, because Rossi. That is not happening any more.

If Rossi actually does have functioning IP, he has one way forward. Reveal it to IH. That would require setting aside his paranoia, it would require him to become sane. Ah, how compulsive reality can be!

(Alternate scenario: IH is a bunch of conniving conspirators out to preserve the status quo and their investments in the status quo and to ruin Rossi. However, until Rossi filed the lawsuit, he was free to proceed, unimpeded. He could negotiate with anyone in Europe, for example. One of the largest defects in the Rossi lawsuit is that he has not shown how they harmed him. He alleges supposedly Bad Actions that caused him only imaginary harm.)

Quote from JedRothwell

My source of information is data from Rossi himself. Data does not lie. I may misinterpret it, but data does not "play" a person. It is objective. That is why science works.

Rossi thinks the data shows excess heat. So he claims, anyway. I think it does not. It is the same data leading us to two radically different conclusions, so obviously you can't blame the instruments or the data. You cannot say it is "playing" or misleading us. The fault lies in us. One of us is mistaken.

So Rossi himself gives you data he knows to show failure/cheating, what for, pass as a fraud? or does he believe it's good, and then he's the 100 million dollar IP incompetent inventor who just happened to seduce investors, who themselves are incompetent enough not to check for problems?
Oh, but then you'll say "IH knew from the beginning or so, they told me so"

And then we go back to the part where you get played

Quote from "Jed"

My source of information is data from Rossi himself. Data does not lie. I may misinterpret it, but data does not "play" a person. It is objective. That is why science works.Rossi thinks the data shows excess heat. So he claims, anyway. I think it does not. It is the same data leading us to two radically different conclusions, so obviously you can't blame the instruments or the data. You cannot say it is "playing" or misleading us. The fault lies in us. One of us is mistaken.

I thought you said you got data from IH? I see only two options for you Jed; played or paid ... Your transformation from the honorable rational person being listed at as a speaker on Mats symposium only a few months ago, to the emotional FUD slinger you have become today is sad to see. Why? I still worry that you are actually being threatened. Both Weaver and Zeopfl have it in them.

Quote from "Jed"

You have no idea what I know,

Ahhh, so we're playing poker are we Jed?

Btw, you have no idea what I know ... see. Not that hard. And based on that information I'm pretty XXXXXXX sure you are played or paid (maybe threatened)

Quote

Your transformation from the honorable rational person being listed at as a speaker on Mats symposium only a few months ago, to the emotional FUD slinger you have become today is sad to see. Why? I still worry that you are actually being threatened.

Anyone who thinks that Jed Rothwell is anything other than honest, well motivated and other than enthusiastic about anything which could promote cold fusion/LENR either has not followed his activities or is a complete idiot. What I fault him for is his inability to consider that tantalizing and delicious claims for LENR can be fraud and deception or simple errors... that is up to now. He also likes to argue for the sake of argument, IMO, otherwise why bring in Newton and Einstein and Edison alongside a discussion of *yuch!* Rossi?

My best estimation of Mats Lewan is similar. And both work hard to support LENR. The idea that Jed's new distaste for Rossi is malevolent or profit-seeking is so absurd, only someone with no tie to reality would think it.

Jed's attitude towards Rossi is disappointment and sadness, I think, that the guy is turning out to be such an obvious slime ball. For some of us, it was obvious much sooner than for others.

Quote from sifferkoll

"Jed" wrote:

I thought you said you got data from IH? I see only two options for you Jed; played or paid ... Your transformation from the honorable rational person being listed at as a speaker on Mats symposium only a few months ago, to the emotional FUD slinger you have become today is sad to see. Why? I still worry that you are actually being threatened. Both Weaver and Zeopfl have it in them.

I've known Jed since 2009, though in person only since 2013. Sifferkoll is all over the map, here claiming or suspecting that Jed is being paid in one post, then that he is being threatened in another. I have seen only one threat flying around here. Sifferkoll has been, ah, reminded that he's libelling real people, some of whom might have the means to take action over that, and Dewey is a possible person who might feel he's been injured. I am a subscriber to the private CMNS mailing list. There is no sign of an IH campaign there.

Now, here, Sifferkoll thinks he has found a contradiction. Aha! Gotcha! In fact, I've been reading Jed fairly carefully, and Jed, when he has talked about private information, has generally refused to say where it came from. To my knowledge, he has never said it came from IH. Anyone can correct that by pointing to a place where he did that. However, he has numerous times claimed that the data he is relying on "came from Rossi." He has not claimed that Rossi gave it to him, and what he says is repeated above. The "data is from Rossi." In fact, what he would have is data given to him by someone who told him it was from Rossi, and he trusts this.

That's it. There is also information from Rossi that is open, and Jed also refers to that. For example. Rossi acknowledges that the IH expert was not allowed to see the customer area, where the 1 MW of steam was supposedly used.

I do not assign full trust to any individual in this case, overall, nor should anyone assign full trust to me. Full trust would mean not only an assessment that the person is not lying, but also that they are sane and sober and that their conclusions are sound and likely to be accurate, (which requires being fully informed). However, there are people involved whom I trust to not lie. Mats Lewan is one. Jed is another. And then there are people who are so deranged that "lie" becomes very difficult to distinguish from insanity. These people make outrageous accusations, as if they were fact, based on fantasy and paranoid imagination.