All you good old boys are intentionally misallocating responsibility to Rossi when IH was in control and was calling all the shots.
So, when the I.H. expert insisted he be allowed to see the pretend customer site, and Rossi blocked him . . . As Rossi himself described. That means I.H. was in control and calling all the shots. Really? They blocked themselves? My goodness! Such Jedi mind games.
Jed:
QuoteMary Yugo wrote:The I.H. experts are top-notch people.
How do we know that?
We don't. I do.
Sorry but you were so wrong *and* so CERTAIN about Rossi, I don't value your opinion on this issue at all.
Jed:
QuoteMary Yugo wrote:Whoever advised Darden to buy into Rossi without checking with critics and skeptics and testing one original ecat properly was an idiot.
...
That may have been someone else. I do not know. If it was the same people then while I agree it was a poor decision in retrospect, I cannot be sure it was idiotic.
Either they did the proper testing and still offered Rossi an extravagant deal, or they did not do the proper testing and offered it to him. In the first case, if they failed to grasp the results or were successfully bamboozled, it is gross incompetence. If they did not properly examine or test, it is gross negligence. I do not believe IH is part of Rossi's fraud. They were just dumb. Maybe it's both, negligence AND incompetence. Either way, given ALL the excellent material on the internet, the foremost of which was Krivit's site and his experience during his visit to Rossi, giving Rossi money without extensive, comprehensive and the highest quality of testing and vetting and interpretation was completely and irrevocably idiotic.
QuoteI.H. may have been idiotic then but they seem to be doing a pretty good job now. The situation with Rossi is awful but I have heard that some of their other projects are going well. Perhaps they have learned from experience.
That is far from certain. They are presumably supporting Brillouin and perhaps Miley, almost certainly without proper testing and going on claims -- that's a guess of course. Those two seem like they will end up a lot like Rossi though we have much less to go on.
QuoteWell, that is the main dispute and why we are gathered together today. How do you know the customer's area had no equipment during the 1MW test?
Ok then. Rossi has to reveal his actual customer for the court case. Who is it and what did they do with all that energy? What do they manufacture? Are they buying a megawatt plant or two? Can they be interviewed about it?
Axil:
QuoteAll you good old boys are intentionally misallocating responsibility to Rossi when IH was in control and was calling all the shots. Rossi may have help IH out because of their unsurpassed stupidity in order to get himself paid but that does not confer any testing setup responsibility onto him.
Axil, I am surprised you retain the intellectual capacity to route food to your mouth! Rossi's contract specified that he would deliver a working device to IH and all the information needed so that they could make working devices of their own (presumably from a cook book sort of instruction set) including fuel. If Rossi had done that, he would have been paid because no conceivable rationale would explain that not happening.
Some additional perspective: a two megawatt steam generator -- note the size of the pipes and their heavy constructions.
Display MoreJed:
Sorry but you were so wrong *and* so CERTAIN about Rossi, I don't value your opinion on this issue at all.
Jed:
Either they did the proper testing and still offered Rossi an extravagant deal, or they did not do the proper testing and offered it to him. In the first case, if they failed to grasp the results or were successfully bamboozled, it is gross incompetence. If they did not properly examine or test, it is gross negligence. I do not believe IH is part of Rossi's fraud. They were just dumb. Maybe it's both, negligence AND incompetence. Either way, given ALL the excellent material on the internet, the foremost of which was Krivit's site and his experience during his visit to Rossi, giving Rossi money without extensive, comprehensive and the highest quality of testing and vetting and interpretation was completely and irrevocably idiotic.
Every investment has risks...alternative energy has MASSIVE risks. I believe this massive risk just happened to be sugar coated by a very capable magician...with excellent smoke and mirrors. A good magican can fool even a very intelligent mind for a period of time. There are many very intelligent minds that unfortunately believe the good Doctor and his magic...this and other related forums are proof of that. I think you armchair quarterback this particular situation far too deeply, therefore I don't value your opinion on this issue at all.
So, when the I.H. expert insisted he be allowed to see the pretend customer site, and Rossi blocked him . . . As Rossi himself described. That means I.H. was in control and calling all the shots. Really? They blocked themselves? My goodness! Such Jedi mind games.
Where did this factoid came from? Is this one of those confidential customized data dumps from IH?
Where did this factoid came from? Is this one of those confidential customized data dumps from IH?
Has Planet Rossi gone completely upside down today? There must have been some polar shift from so many users being chased off for umm...unmentioned reasons. This has been discussed at ad nauseam and even confirmed by Rossi himself. Click Click Click...hello Axil...are you in there?
So, when the I.H. expert insisted he be allowed to see the pretend customer site, and Rossi blocked him . . . As Rossi himself described. That means I.H. was in control and calling all the shots. Really? They blocked themselves? My goodness! Such Jedi mind games.
Where did this factoid came from?
Rossi's own words. Right here:
https://animpossibleinvention.…ilding-plus-more-updates/
"IH never had access to the customer’s area. At the end of the test, an expert hired by IH, insisted that it was important to know where the water came from and where it was used. The ERV explained that this had no importance."
"The ERV" in this case means the puppet sitting on Rossi's lap. I know for a fact that Rossi himself blocked access. Unfortunately for him, I.H. and others confirmed there is no heat coming from the pretend customer site, by other means.
Has Planet Rossi gone completely upside down today? There must have been some polar shift from so many users being chased off for umm...unmentioned reasons. This has been discussed at ad nauseam and even confirmed by Rossi himself. Click Click Click...hello Axil...are you in there?
What is the link to the Rossi conformation?
They blocked themselves?
It is claimed that IH was contractually blocked--that IH agreed to this arrangement up-front. So I think IH did actually block themselves.
What is the link to the Rossi conformation?
Jed just posted it.
giving Rossi money without extensive, comprehensive and the highest quality of testing and vetting and interpretation was completely and irrevocably idiotic.
Woodford claimed to perform 2.5 years of careful due-diligence. I could be wrong, but I think a fund about to invest $50 million is going to hire top-notch scientists to evaluate the tech before investing. My guess is that we are just skimming the surface of what has happened behind the scenes.
It is claimed that IH was contractually blocked--that IH agreed to this arrangement up-front. So I think IH did actually block themselves.
Where did you hear this?
Ok then. Rossi has to reveal his actual customer for the court case. Who is it and what did they do with all that energy? What do they manufacture? Are they buying a megawatt plant or two? Can they be interviewed about it?
Agreed. This will come out during the litigation, one way or the other.
Now this is going to piss off my friends quite a bit. It is a semi-quantitative analysis admittedly, and it doesn't address the October 6th 2011 test, but other anecdotical accounts of previous experiments (if I got it right).
No, sorry, you didn't get it right. The list of all the Ecat experiments held on 2011, for which some public info is available, is shown in the jpeg that I cited many times: http://i.imgur.com/rB93G1X.jpg.
The figure 1 of the GSVIT report clearly refers to the Ecat tests shown in the bottom line. The first edition of that report included also the same picture used in the jpeg for the October 6 test. I did notice that in the their present second edition (Revision 1) they removed any reference to any specific fat-cat test, but in the Abstract is still written "This article describes a system that is able to provide a possible conventional explanation (not necessarily the only one) about the “self-sustained” phenomenon observed in the E-Cat steam-generator. During a few tests performed on the above-mentioned E-Cat system an anomalous water steam production was reported and confirmed by a number of observers."
So, there is a double reference to the Ecat, and to the results reported by the observers. I deem not so much correct to propose a possible and imaginative way to provoke a false phenomenon without specifying the test you are referring to, and without using properly all the dimensions and data that have been reported for that specific test.
Moreover at the end of the report, it has been made an open reference to a specific test, the January 14 demo, whose behavior can in no way be compared to the fat-cat one.
In a few word, they made a lot of confusion.
To say it is completely wrong is a bit surprising, but I will leave the dispute to the authors, if they read here and wish to start an ecatfight.
For me has been a surprise that they did decide to publish anyway that study, with only some minor and insufficient modification, after I warned them in the most discreet possible way about the flaws of the first edition.
Anyway, they are free to publish what they deem more opportune. For my part, I would have expressed no public comment on that report, if it was not reported here on LENR-forum and assimilated in someway to my model. And I did it with sincere regret.
Jed just posted it.
The reference was this:
The ERV explained that this had no importance.
Since the ERV was a IH contractor, and gave the ERV authority over the test, then IH block themselves.
Quote from IH Fanboy: “Quote from JedRothwell: “They blocked themselves?”
It is claimed that IH was contractually blocked--that IH agreed to this arrangement up-front. So I think IH did actually block themselves.”
Where did you hear this?
It was claimed by Rossi (see blog post below--can be confirmed at http://www.rossilivecat.com/all). I don't think this particular agreement has been made public, but I could be wrong. As I'm sure you can appreciate, marshaling the facts in this whole affair is becoming quite unwieldy.
"Andrea Rossi
May 20, 2016 at 5:07 PM
Sebastian:
In the agreement signed between IH and the Customer it had been agreed by the parties that nobody of IH was allowed to enter in JM area and nobody of JM was allowed to enter the area in which the plant was in operation. This had been agreed upon to defend the IP of both. This agreement has been signed by IH and JM, plus also me.
The text of the agreement has been written by IH and accepted by JM.
Warm Regards,
A.R."
The reference was this:
The ERV explained that this had no importance.
Since the ERV was a IH contractor, and gave the ERV authority over the test, then IH block themselves.
So you are telling me that an IH contractor BLOCKED an IH expert from having access to what he thought was important to the matter at hand. You really are going to stick with that huh?
