I was wrong about Rossi, but what I fear most is that I might be partly right

    Quote from JedRothwell

    This "explanation" becomes stranger and stranger. What would be the point of doing any of this? What benefit could there be? The actual reactor is hidden . . . for what purpose? What is he doing with it, and why?


    The only strange thing is the so called test...


    Why does somebody (IH + Rossi) put in scene a one year show to prove a proven (according IH ..) concept??


    Why is this done by a company, which owns not more than a single office room ???? Do you finally hear the bell ringing ?? Potemkin??


    Why did they pay for abd, one of the top spin-doctors in the states ?? ring ring..


    Answer: It was the last, desparate try to stop the field! I hope the DOD comes to the same conclusion (LENR can't be stopped) and will stop the hidden game.


    Thus I ask all who really want to support LENR to stay away from this sharade. Stop the Rossi game and shut down all this pointless threads.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    Answer: It was the last, desparate try to stop the field! I hope the DOD comes to the same conclusion (LENR can't be stopped) and will stop the hidden game.


    Rossi conducted the test. He insisted on it. You seem to saying that Rossi made a last, desperate effort try to stop the field. Why would he go to the trouble? If he wanted to stop the field (or his portion of it), all he has to do is stop doing research. There would be no purpose to running a real, hidden reactor elsewhere if all he wants to do is stop the research.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Why would he go the trouble? If he (<- this is your joke-) want to stop the field (or his portion of it), all he has to do is stop doing research. There would be no purpose to running a real, hidden reactor elsewhere if all he wants to do is stop the research.


    So You asked Rossi? Did he tell You that he insisted? Who tells You that he wanted the trouble?


    I know (out of compiling different facts) that the 'DOD' is playing a dirty game and if You pursue your posting unchanged, then I will assume that you are a part of their agenda.
    Somebody called the presidency of R. Reagen the longest Hollywood movie ever played. The Rossi movie is gaining on. (If you know what(how) I mean..it.)

    Jed: "Cold fusion resembles plutonium-238 in that it is easily shielded and it can probably be used safely even in things such as implanted pacemakers."


    Be advised:
    This production of helium is due to the production of alpha particles in both Pu238 and LENR. Helium production does not need to come from fusion. It can come from nuclear decay.

    Wyttenbach:

    Quote

    To MY: A 1 MW boiler is a s small as 2x2x2 Meters. The one my brother owns is even smaller. Its all a matter of how much water You want to store and not a matter of generating the heat!


    Could you kindly fire up that boiler, grab a phone or camera, and show the gauge readings that prove a megawatt of power in (or out) and then show us the flow of steam it produces? The issue isn't the size of Rossi's device, it's that it does essentially nothing which can not be accounted for by the power from the 440V 3 phase mains connections Rossi uses and photographed.

    If you like to see a 1 MW boiler go for a swim in a heated basin 50X 20 Meters and afterwards - after a cool down - ask the chief of the bath to show You the heating. They typically use 500kWh units.


    But do not mix heating with Boiler. Rossis unit is a heater, which is a part of a typical boiler... The big part of a conventional boiler is the heat exchanger and the storage of the hot water.

    Alan Fletcher:

    Quote

    Note, however, that the requirements for driving a turbine a very different than supplying heat through a heat exchanger.The first pressure gauge reads 12 bar, the second (post-turbine?) reads 10 bar."Rossi says" there are pressure relief valves between 1 and 3 bar: scale down to 1MW and (say) 2 bar, and you have something an order of magnitude smaller.You have a post a few pages back (#17) talking about the 500kW power generator for the original 1MW acceptance test. But Darden and Vaughn were there ... surely they would have noticed that the generator was outputting 500kW when the ERV said it was self-sustaining for hours, driving only the controls and pumps?


    I have no idea what the accompanying image, which I had not seen before, signifies. Far as I know, nobody has ever done a careful measurement of input power vs output power on any of those weirdly stacked and connected collections of steam temp ecats which Rossi calls a megawatt plant. Of course, I might not know. Obviously, what Darden and Vaughn should have commissioned from qualified, credible and reliable independent researchers, was a properly calibrated and blanked test of a single sub unit of the "plant." If they did that and still bought in, they obviously failed to do it correctly or to account for Rossi's sleight of hand and other trickery. If they didn't ask for something like that, well they got what they deserved. I've said this same sort of thing since November 2011 at which time it became obvious.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Indeed it would. A topsy-turvy world. I wasn't being serious btw.


    Not serious? Good. It is a little hard to tell at times. There is someone at e-catworld who calls himself "engineer" who insists that you can get steam from a heat exchanger when the primary fluid comes out at 60 deg C, and that you can "store" "waste heat" even at the rate of 1 MW indefinitely inside some sort of container. People have strange notions.


    I failed to appreciate this comment before:


    Quote from Alan Smith

    You just turn all the power-output figures through 180 deg.


    That's hilarious!

    Quote from axil

    Be advised:
    This production of helium is due to the production of alpha particles in both Pu238 and LENR. Helium production does not need to come from fusion. It can come from nuclear decay.


    Yes, I am aware of that. I think most readers here knew that. What was your point?


    I was thinking more of the useful heat from the reaction rather than the alpha particles.

    Quote from JedRothwell


    Yes, I am aware of that. I think most readers here knew that. What was your point?


    I was thinking more of the useful heat from the reaction rather than the alpha particles.


    The point is that helium production in cold fusion may not be produced by the formation of helium from a fusion reaction. It may be caused by a decay process of the nucleus which produces alpha particles.


    LENR might well be related to a nuclear decay process and not a result of a hydrogen based fusion reaction.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Previous experiments with Pd-D cold fusion show that it converts deuterium to helium


    Many people say this but there is no evidence that deuterium is a fuel. Rather it is a historical conjecture. Given that natural hydrogen contains only 150 ppm deuterium, it is probable that in the Ni/H system deuterium is not the (only) fuel. It follows that the heat helium correlation can tell us very little.


    There are many such "historical conjectures" made by pioneers in this field. They are being slowly debunked by experiment. We need to keep an open mind and rely on evidence and not just on the authority of experts. Every argument stands on its own merits, not on the stature of is proponents.

    Quote from Eric Walker


    Do you have a non-speculative source for this detail?


    Hi Walker. Unfortunately no non-speculative and especially I cannot recall was he declared quelified HVAC or just highly educated wit lots of experience in nuclear industry with good amount of experience in similar power measurement tasks. All I know was discussions that started in e-catworld (? if I remember correctly or Mats blog comments) arount he time Penons name became public. I think few weeks after Rossis summons. Frank Ackland then asked from Ross in JONP and he basically confirmed what was already speculated.


    So yes it is mostly Rossi says and speculation of blog readers. I should have used AFAICR but was bit busy while writing and didn't remember correct abbreviation.

    Quote from Hermes

    Many people say this but there is no evidence that deuterium is a fuel.


    Yes, there is evidence for that. The cells produce helium in the same ratio to the heat as plasma fusion does. The only likely source of the helium is deuterium fusion. See Miles, especially:


    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MilesMcorrelatio.pdf


    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MilesManomalousea.pdf

    Quote from Hermes

    it is probable that in the Ni/H system deuterium is not the (only) fuel.


    I referred to the Pd-D system only. I do not know what the product of the Ni-H system might be, assuming it actually does produce excess heat. Ed Storms thinks the product might be deuterium.

    Quote from Argon

    Unfortunately no non-speculative and especially I cannot recall was he declared quelified HVAC or just highly educated wit lots of experience in nuclear industry with good amount of experience in similar power measurement tasks.


    He was so declared by Rossi. His previous paper shows that he is a nitwit, incapable of doing calorimetry:


    http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-co…09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf


    In the Lewan interview, Rossi excused this saying Penon only signed that paper, he didn't actually write it.


    If Penon actually designed the calorimetry in the 1-year test, as claimed, than he is twice a nitwit. I think it must have been Rossi who designed it. I doubt anyone else could come up with a test so sloppy, dangerous and deceptive. It takes a special kind of genius. Defkalion's fake test with the gimixed flow meter doesn't hold a candle to it.


    The experimental evidence using palladium/deuterium electrolysis the contradicts this theory are the CR39 experiments conducted by J Fisher. The nuclear tracks show 10s of thousands of alpha particle impacts into the plastic having a energy of about 2 MeV. There is also indications that the alpha particle impact pattern form a circular distribution whose angles of impact track back to a point source.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    As much as I respect you as a scientist, the FUD just isn't going to work, at least not with LENR enthusiasts. Yes, you may score some points with the public when the time comes, but you should at least consider the consequences of playing the fear/illegal card when something as promising as LENR+ could lift millions of people out of poverty.


    While I agree with your premise on the surface, I believe supporting a likely frXXXXXXnt path in LENR is so much more damaging to the cause of lifting the millions than working to expose the fXXXd itself. After the frXXXster is exposed hopefully the field can get back on track without the disgusting distraction.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    The cells produce helium in the same ratio to the heat as plasma fusion does.


    I thought plasma fusion produced 50% 3He, 50% 3H and only 0.00001% 4He. The heat to 4He ratio is about 37000 GeV. The major reason for this disparity of rate is that strong nuclear interactions are much faster than electromagnetic ones.

    Quote from Hermes

    I thought plasma fusion produced 50% 3He, 50% 3H and only 0.00001% 4He.


    OOPS. THAT'S SOMEWHAT WRONG. CORRECTED MESSAGE APPENDED.


    Plasma fusion output depends on what is fused. Some isotopes fuse more easily than others. In a Tokamak reactor they use various different isotopes depending on what they are studying. Some are only used once, because they destroy the reactor.


    Anyway, D + D fusion produces 4He as the only product. Normally you have other isotopes in the mix, so you get H + D or T + D or what-have-you. Cold fusion with palladium apparently only fuses the deutrons, even though other isotopes are available as contamination. You cannot measure the D content decreasing, because there is so much D in the cell. But you can measure the helium concentration increasing, and the increase is close to what it would be if this were pure D + D fusion. There is no radiation, which is a mystery.


    It is very difficult to measure this increase. With some cathodes, to get a full balance, you have to flush out a small amount of remaining helium that gets stuck in the lattice. Most of it escapes, which indicates the reaction is occurring near the surface.

    Quote from axil

    The experimental evidence using palladium/deuterium electrolysis the contradicts this theory are the CR39 experiments conducted by J Fisher.


    These experiments have not been replicated yet.


    You can always find evidence that contradicts other evidence, but until it is replicated at a high signal to noise ratio, it is not convincing.

Subscribe to our newsletter

It's sent once a month, you can unsubscribe at anytime!

View archive of previous newsletters

* indicates required

Your email address will be used to send you email newsletters only. See our Privacy Policy for more information.

Our Partners

Supporting researchers for over 20 years
Want to Advertise or Sponsor LENR Forum?
CLICK HERE to contact us.