Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project contacted to test Defkalion Hyperion V6, a week ago...

on MFMP site Robert Greenyer say they have been contacted by Defkalion to test they next generation reactor.

http://www.quantumheat.org/ind…ells-running#comment-5029

Quote from "Robert Greenyer"

We were made aware of the potential MFMP invite to test the new v.6 Hyperion reactor about 1 week ago through a 3rd party. The expected time frame would be in 3 months. No direct approach has been made, nor has any agreement been made.We would only work within the Live Open Science methodology. We are not interested in the reactor internals and so see no reason to sign any form of NDA - nor would we participate in any test if there was any restriction on fair reporting or our ongoing research flexibility.If we were to take part, we would look to develop the test structure and procedure through open dialogue via quantumheat.org site, taking on best practices to resolve the outstanding criticisms - challenging experiment apparatus design and protocols. We would also expect to execute a blank and other control tests as demanded to establish credibility.We would also only perform the tests if independently financed with funds over and above those resources committed to our established research.We await to be formally approached.

The initial news came from Dr Bob (the LENR Dog ), meeting Peter Gluck.
http://www.drboblog.com/dr-bob-transylvania/

Quote from "Dr Bob"

The R6 was supposed to be demonstrated during the seminar at MIT earlier this year. Defkalion hopes to be able to make another demonstration within 3 months and they are interested in having scientists from MFMP (The Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project) to perform some of the tests.

MFMP is working very (VERY) openly to verify or debunk different Cold Fusion technologies and because of their open approach there is some details that needs to be sorted out. Defkalion wants MFMP to sign an NDA- it`s a legal document that expresses what MFMP is allowed to speak, or not, speak about.

This is maybe a good news, the good reaction to the Luca Gamberale report if Defkalion have something to show.
We have to wait for the real thing as Defkalion have often proposed and never delivered.

Success is not to exclude, as failure is too.

I proposed a method to make that kind of third party test, mixing 3rd party test with chosen instruments and method, with an iterative approach to address pathoskeptical, and real critics.

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It may be a great opportunity, but it should be well done.

Refusing to participate because an honest NDA may be an error, but the NDA should only cover things inside the reactor, or business data... The calorimetry should be open science.

About the way to do it I have proposed a method, which have the advantage to be "open".
the idea is to propose a protocol to the community, have feed back, then start the tests.
then follow the critics by all the Mary Yugo on the planet and iteratively address them.
This will takes time, and I know the basic manipulation method of skeptics, called the Hypercritical Method (only french wikipedia cover it) is to move the target continuously.
they continuously raise concern on things that you cannot anymore see because the report is published and the test finished.
making iterative check is a way to address those critics.

You have to respect the fear of industrial spying which are real, confirmed by a handful of reports (not even on reactor builders), but not at the cost of the calorimetry credibility.

being allowed to choose your instruments, youe measurement methods is key to the credibility.
Being allowed to choose the protocol and the instruments is 99% of the victory, since no liar will accept free instruments and free protocol (however they can forbid anything endangering their IP that you have to respect, like gamma spectrometer)..
i see a problem with electronic spectrometer or scope, that may divulgue trade secrets, but in that case you may agree on checking data that eliminate claims of fraud, while not divulgating IP.
one way for example is to have a spectrometer result that just sumup power over a bandwidth, above a given level, hiding the trade secrets.

This protocol may be applied to any company, and since there is huge reason to doubt on the Defkalion claims, so no risk to have overconfidence. This is a point to exploit.
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I know they are accused with good evidence to have fooled Lucan gamberale...

they claim they have anyway a technology... It looks strange, but if they can prove it seriously like Rossi is doing it and preparing it better, that will be ok...

I won't say it is probable, but what I know is that this company is complicated, so anything is possible, not excluding good things... I ask for good evidence... They approached MFMP for test. Given the backlog, I ask for good test.

Moreover the protocol can be used for others.

there is two reasonable possibilities :
- either it did not work at all as they desired to show (either null, or small), and they organized a pony show to fool Gamberale
- or they realized it was temporarily broken , and they used a known trick to save the show.

Like you, the first hypothesis seems the most reasonable.

Anyway we are not sure. there are also others hypothesis that I don't judge credible, but who knows.

I am less sure, but globally, except on self-confidence, we probably agree.

We may only disagree about who organized the manipulation, because from report on vortex and indirect report, and despite/because the opinion of most observers, I have an opinion of a possible sociopath behind the story.

Just see who lost his money. and thing of individual, not of company.
Fraud are done by people (sometime in group), not by companies.

It may even work, and in that case question is who decided those stupid acts.
I always have been cautious with companies like Blacklight, but clearly Defkalion is now below in term of credibility.

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Treat Defkalion as a fraud until proven otherwise.

good position.
Not definitive, but the chance are weak. I hope peace came back in Afghanistan and Defkalion publish a stoneproof report.

I'm cautious because 2 years ago, Rossi and Defkalion credibility were reverse (except for some old ape like Jed who had unofficial reports)... Things change.

Hopefully we have E-cat report coming. I hope Defkalion tricks will not weaken E-cat report

you make good points,
But to be realist, the hard-skeptics can be good observer when it serves their cause, and absolutely blind when it oppose their cause.

The problem is that on many points they propose absurdities, and in the mass of crappy conspiracy theory, they have few good points.
Most of them are dead clock which are right twice a day.

Other points is that if they raised possible problems, they also did not have strong evidence, just suspicions. The problem is that they would suspect their mother to be their father if it could support their beliefs.

That demo was a demo, a pony show, this mean proving nothing, not even failure.

There was good remarks, from people who probably had data from Luca Gamberale (like Cimpy), but it was hard to check, by design.
Since the beginning it was clearly not a third party test.
As I said multiple time, we could not condemn them, but sure we needed more data, on the water flow, on the quantity of water used to cool the steam. I computed that few liter per minute was required to condensate all the steam claimed, and Mats said he visually estimated it was much less... but there was so many variable, like condensing in copper tube, in the sewer... Impossible to have a definitive opinion, and given the past bias of skeptics I could not trust their claims about whether something is possible or not.

There was doubt on the HV supply, but again not enough data since only apparent current was measured. In the report Luca confirm the electric measurement were good however. The skeptics were wrong that time, like on most of their claims.

After few month of no answers to Luca, things get scary. When Symeon left the company, when Luca closed DE, it get very scary, but until recently we could not do more than suspect or fear. That time like many I have great doubt but no evidence.

When Luca Gamberale published that it was badly done, we had, at last, data. The fact that Defkalion answered nothing since 9 month clearly shows they cannot face the facts and it gives strong reason to trust that very expensive report that costed 1million to DE.

The most annoying evidence was the Nelson report, that was not definitive. The real error was to consider it as an evidence of a moderate COP>3, while the author confirmed it was preliminary, and nothing was done after.

I don't know if Nelson was fooled like they tried with Luca, and in the report you find reason to hope he avoid to be tricked the same way, but no certainty... and nothing exclude others tricks.
What Luca denounce is enough to abandon all trust in that test.

There was also many warning from various actors, like Jed or Stremmenos, but in that domain it is always hard to separate passion, commercial interest, manipulations, nationalism, gut feeling, experience, and good intuition. Moreover if you look at Rossi's story, or Wright brothers story, there are many catastrophes and stupid mistakes that could be badly interpreted.

Just read the paper of Pomp&Ericsson, and you will see that most of the critics are pathetic, hiding or missing the few good points, like DC offset, in a web of conspiracy theory. Re-read the article against Andrea Rossi, and compare to recent knowledge and data... It is not lies, it is disinformations, biased presentation of many real facts and some inventions.

I disagree mainly about skeptics, as they are of so much bias and irrationality that they are more an obstacle than an help to debunking. They push careful observers to be radical, emotional, to behave like attorneys and not like judge, as they behave like a desperate death-row attorney.

Find something that, before Luca's report, they said on Defkalion, that was not already said on Rossi. They are constant output function.

Once we have honest critics that admit facts, and raise concerns with moderation, admitting they are not sure, it would be easier to separate the sure good from the possibly bad. That is what we are missing the most, moderate critics, moderate supporters...

This is a reason to hear the opinion of Jed Rothwell who expressed various skepticism but not absolute certainty, and avoided usual fallacies.

I admit I screw up badly, trusting DGT without any serious contacts with them, despite few alarms,despite no delivery, despite many stupid announces, at the same time being very skeptic against Andrea Rossi whom I treated quite unfairly.

If some remind, I consider about industrial LENR actors that there are only 3 interesting evidence :

• Levi's report, the best one, which beside DC offset question is solid. (unless Rossi is stupid like DGT, injecting DC that one of the physicist can measure with a 5$ voltmeter is not credible). I hope next one will be rock solid.
• Tanzella's (of SRI) paper presented at ICCF17 showing COP of 2 for Brillouin WET reactor. Not really 3rd party, as SRI and Brillouin work together, but quire credible given SRI is not a scam artist.
• The Nelson "preliminary" report showing a COP of 3 for Hyperion... This report is confirmed but not definitive, not detailed, not very independent, and now I consider it as possible pony-show. To be removed from the list.

Beside that you have numerous scientific articles, which let no doubt about the reality of the phenomenon with PdD, but little hope of short-term application. this is a separate question.