And that something similar must be kept secret?
By me, yes. Rossi or I.H. can tell you. Ask them.
So these are arrows in IH's quiver waiting to grasped and released by their litigation bow? They don't want you to steal their thunder?
I have no idea why they wish to keep this confidential. I know nothing about litigation, but I suppose that is the reason.
You seem very certain it is all faked. But you don't seem to hold open the possibility that the "fake" customer is simply a shell company in the U.S. set up for a U.K. company, as expressly stated in the license agreement. Sure, you can say it is all lies a big ruse, but there is no denying that there it is, in black and white print, in the license agreement. It is also suggested that IH agreed not to enter the customer area--in writing. Have you asked IH to see that document? Do you think it might be important to confirm whether that agreement exists before taking a hard position on the matter?
Are you essentially proposing that a U.K. company for whatever reason wanted to be hidden from being the customer, so the U.K. company set up a shell company here in the U.S. and made Rossi's lawyer the head of this company? Does it not seem quite illogical or odd that Rossi's lawyer was made the head of this company that is a shell of the U.K. company? It's these types of questions that always have to be answered with such outlandish reasons to fit the puzzle when it comes to Rossi. I just don't buy it.
Dear Mary
Jed has promised to not tell, anything about the flowmeter except that it does not measure well, it is unsuitable. How can he hustify this without telling some technical detail, some technical reason? As say it was made from LDPE and has worked at 130 C. He has no idea what he is talkng about. do not compromise yourself defending him. YOU know what a flowmeter is, he not.
Peter
"How can he h(j)ustify this without telling some technical detail, some technical reason?" I don't know how many times everyone has to tell you this Peter, he has agreed not to reveal any information not already made public by Rossi or I.H. I do not know why you are having such a difficult time comprehending this when everyone else understands just fine. Jed has stuck by this and continues to...I consider it quite honorable toward both parties. You obviously can not handle the fact that Jed is respecting his words in this matter, that is fortunate...so maybe you should just let it go. Jed continues to answer your query the same way and the acceptable way, no one can help that it is driving you crazy to know if your hero really did have an issue with the flow meter. Peter, why don't you go ask Rossi himself for the flow meter details when you stroke his EGO each day when you post your EGO blog to his EGO blog each day. At least you have not tried to charade 'your' EGO blog as a physics journal as he does lol.
OMG! I'm saying Woodford visited the plant and that Darden pocketed $50M from them (I guess you confirmed the last part). Are you saying they did NOT, or are you only trying to spin FUD?
BTW, I'm pretty sure IH is trying to tell Woodford many things as part of damage control, more or less the same ugly stuff Darden told the Swedes he met in Stockholm I presume.
Pure speculation that Darden pocketed $50 Million from the plant. You have no clue about the chain of funds and the details regarding them. Even if in an imaginary world like Planet Rossi, Darden did collect $50 Million off the scam that he himself was fooled into believing, I am quite sure the $50 Million would have been returned or moved to different parts of the investment portfolio. Again that would be most extreme case on Planet Rossi, everyone fooled down the chain, and money moved to where it needs to be moved to. Unfortunately investors are fooled by fraudulent inventors quite often in the VC world...really a non-issue to the matter at hand, but continue to spin spin spin Sufferkill!
Does it not seem quite illogical or odd that Rossi's lawyer was made the head of this company that is a shell of the U.K. company?
I'll admit, it seems more likely at first blush that the U.K. company would use its own U.S. attorney to form the shell company. But on further reflection, it is possible that the U.K. company did not previously have a presence in the U.S., that Rossi reached out to them with the opportunity, that they agreed to give it a go but wanted to avoid being exposed given the controversial nature of LENR (understandably), and so agreed to have Rossi's lawyer form the shell company. Documents filed with the court bolster this possibility.
Display MoreThe trend here is to organize an e-Trial on this forum, mimicking and anticipating the real Trial; here Jed Rothwell wants to be the Judge- the decision is already taken- IH acquited Rossi sentenced. This Jury is working with ad-hoc fabricated proofs.
A typical example:
Rossi has no problems with the Flowmeter it was a pretty standard one.
For Jed the flowmeter is a central piece the most unsuitable instrument, the most corruptible tool of measurement and, in the same time the supreme proof of zero excess heat- peculiar mode of thinking but Jed is an LENR lover, ergo he will not lie, isn't it?
Anyway, on my EGO OUT blog I wrote about this yesterday but Jed has not seen it and not answered
Here it is:
"As we were already informed the instruments were unsuitable and the measurements faulty, however the central piece in this story nd the champion of both scamming and self-deceit is the flowmeter- flawmeter, faultymeter; a really evil instrument was chosen- say the relaible source. See the specifications
FlowScam DIABLO-666 Universal Flowmeter manufactured under the patronage of the South American Drug Cartel measures direct flow, backflow, crossflowand during weekdays even the Csikszentmihalyian FLOW(see pleasehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihaly_Csikszentmihalyi ) (please search in EGO OUT too)
It is obvious for any fool that THIS flowmeter indicates clearly total absence of excess heat!!!
Jed has a good memory (not for calendaristic data and chronology) , if he remembers it was an other type, obviously worse than the above shown- he is free to tell us the Manufacturer and Type- otherwise ill-willed people will dare to suppose that he has no idea what a heck of flowmeter was used by the ERV.we will be shocked for sure- but not for long.Waiting for other similar killer proofs
THE ESSENCE- if Jed is unable to tell something relevant about
why is the flowmeter (which type) so a great catastrophy, then, horribile dicu, he does not tell the truth in this case and in all other cases re this conflict.
Everything has a limit.
peter
The irony you continue to speak with is truly astounding. You act as if you and Sufferkill are not acting as self-appointed judge and jury supporting the good doctor! All we have to do is change the middle part of your post there to one of the many illogical ridiculous points that both of you continue to harp on daily. The only difference here is that you and Sufferkill have absolutely no inside information, and Jed in fact has been privy to actual inside information pertaining to this circus. You and Sufferkill have even taken the "court of public opinion" to a whole new level on an order of magnitude above what you cast on Jed with your ridiculously biased and misinformed blogs. You both perpetuation the "court of public opinion" daily with your blogs...even to such an absurd point of mentioning us here as forum posters...quite a sign of obsession by all accounts for both of you. The fact that your's has the word EGO in it just tops the icing on the cake for irony. lol It would do you MUCH good to track down a nice mirror for deep reflection on this one Peter.
You used to be such a nice litte troll, renzzz : /
Truly I find it astounding you spend so much energy harrassing people who believe in what you think is woowoo. Do you also troll flat earth forums? Seriously, what's wrong with you? Nothing of this affects your everyday life, not your long-term plans.
Rossi claims that his "customer" for the one-year test has ordered three more units. He also stated that he expects these units to be delivered by the end of this year.
Does anyone believe that such deliveries will be made before the trial? If they are, and if they all worked and satisfied the customer, it would be hard for Rossi to lose the case.
d
I don't think even Peter and Sufferkill truly believe this will happen if they were to be honest. lol We would love to see just ONE legitimate real delivery of a product created by Rossi that does not go to some fake customer ran by his lawyer or his gardener...just ONE! This is just how the good doctor kicks the can down the road, you won't see any working units out of him this year..or any year for that matter.
Jed (and others here) are convinced that the customer is fake and that Rossi is simply making this all up. I'm not so sure about that. Generally, when Rossi has taken a public position in the past about something being in existence, to the surprise of many, it turns out to be true. Based on this track record, I think the safer position to take is that the customer probably exists, and is likely a going concern from the U.K., as expressly set forth in the license agreement.
LOL..are you being serious here? Turns out to be true? Rossi has spoken about manufacturing plants of magnificence that he HAS running...yet we have never seen a single shred of evidence of these manufacturing plants. He has spoken about so many customers that never ended up being real. The only customer he has shown to exist is either a very shifty shell company or outright fake. What exactly has he said or done that has turned out to be true..especially enough to create a track record for someone who is yet to show any proof of his "effect" after decades. Wow...
Display MoreJed says, Mary says and says and says, Rossi says, Dewey doesn't say any more, Abd is lost for words. Stephenrenzz says
ad hominemad infinitum
I say 'what does Judge John J O Sullivan say?
Is Rossi's invention 'illusory' - no comment (if he were to comment we would infer that either it works or does not work, Mary would be exonerated or left fighting the US justice system for credibility)
Has the motion to dismiss succeeded - no comment (but it is unlikely that preparations for the next stage would be made when the MTD is ruled successful.
Have arrangements been made to proceed to the next stage of the trial, no comment from O Sullivan, however, the ORDER Setting Trial and Pretrial Schedule, Requiring Mediation, and Referring Certain Matters to Magistrate Judge John J. O'Sullivan: Jury Trial set for period of 6/26/2017 in Miami Division before Judge Cecilia M. Altonaga.
What this guy says and does not say is more meaningful and insightful than any of some of our regular contributors could ever hope to emulate.
By taking the decision not to dismiss on the basis of Mary's contention 'that Rossi is a fraud and therefore his stuff does not work' means that at this stage it is far from clear that Rossi's inventions are fraudulent. In fact the court has assumed there is a case to answer. For this to be so the invention, patents, IP and contract must be considered 'on an equitable basis' to have sufficient substance for the purpose of the trial. Of course during the trial, anything could happen.
Best regards
Frank
Yet FrankWTF stands in his shining armor above all the "says" crew with his brilliant perspectives and remarkable wisdom...give it a rest FrankWTF. In keeping with your claim of my 'ad infinitum' I will remind you that this is all part of the legal process, and means nothing to the case. Why you and other can not comprehend this is beyond all of us...all I can gather is that you have no understanding of legal process in the U.S. but thank you so much for adding useful information here and not just repeating what has been mentioned numerous times (ad infinitum if I may) -insert eyeroll-
Frank:
QuoteI say 'what does Judge John J O Sullivan say?
You care what a judge says about the authenticity of Rossi's claimed invention? Wow. The judge will only rule on the basis of expert opinion. And whether or not it's meaningful depends on which experts he uses. If for some ungodly reason the judge believes the Swedish blind mice, Levi and/or Penon, then he will rule wrongly that the ecat works. I have learned never to predict outcomes for legal proceedings. The law is far from science and has all its own rules, many quite archaic and tradition-bound. Legal proceedings are no way to settle scientific issues. Properly done experiments performed using accurate methods by independent and reliable, credible scientists are the way to know. And that, so far, has not even come close to being done-- not any part of it.
I'll admit, it seems more likely at first blush that the U.K. company would use its own U.S. attorney to form the shell company. But on further reflection, it is possible that the U.K. company did not previously have a presence in the U.S., that Rossi reached out to them with the opportunity, that they agreed to give it a go but wanted to avoid being exposed given the controversial nature of LENR (understandably), and so agreed to have Rossi's lawyer form the shell company. Documents filed with the court bolster this possibility.
Of course that is technically possible, but do you see how the answers to skeptics questions always have to have outlandish answers that have to be built after the fact to fit? Everything that is ever discussed about the fake company, the building the fake company was in, the ventilation (one of my faves when looking at the standard HVAC vents on googlemaps image), Rossi's resistance to prove to ANYONE outside shady private questionable tests that his effect is real...pretty much every major piece of this crazy puzzle always requires outlandish after-the-fact answers to fit. An intelligent person can visualize this when looking at it from a whole. You know the addage, but I will not repeat it as to not upset frank since I am evidentally the one who repeats (insert sarcasm)....lol
LOL..are you being serious here? Turns out to be true? Rossi has spoken about manufacturing plants of magnificence that he HAS running...yet we have never seen a single shred of evidence of these manufacturing plants. He has spoken about so many customers that never ended up being real. The only customer he has shown to exist is either a very shifty shell company or outright fake. What exactly has he said or done that has turned out to be true..especially enough to create a track record for someone who is yet to show any proof of his "effect" after decades. Wow...
If you look back at Mary Yugo's posts around the Internet dating back to 2011, you will find that he questioned Rossi's statements at every step of the way. Questioning the existence of of the Lugano test and testers, the 1 MW plant, the U.S. investors (until news of IH's involvement went public), and so forth. M.Y. was wrong each time. Rossi is overly optimistic, and he admits as much. But when he takes a public position on his blog about the existence of something, time tends to reveal its existence, to the surprise and chagrin of many.
Rossi was discovered substituting a fake flow meter which exagerated the flow rate by a factor of 10 or so.
Yeas! He did this by, cutting a 20cm Tube under pressure > 100C .. and welding in a new one!
AR: What a hero, with steel fingers... Only .. keep repeating idiotic things... Or did You mean he manipulated the gauge with a chewing gum?? And the ERV was that bloddy naiv not to notice it...
Next time look for a larger peep hole!
You used to be such a nice litte troll, renzzz : /
Truly I find it astounding you spend so much energy harrassing people who believe in what you think is woowoo. Do you also troll flat earth forums? Seriously, what's wrong with you? Nothing of this affects your everyday life, not your long-term plans.
Keieueueueue do you not see how foolish you look with your hypocrisy here? You can't invest in a long term argument on a forum for discussion about a topic and then point the finger with such a ridiculous claim when you yourself do the same thing....oh good lord I feel like I am talking to a 8yr old child about how hypocrisy works...this is sad lol.
Of course this does not affect my everyday life or long-term plans. If the 'Rossi Effect' was real, then this would change ALL of our lives, but sadly it is not real. I have said this before, but as FrankWTF has pointed out, I repeat myself, but I will say it again for your benefit. I believed Rossi at one time (as I sadly did with the fraudulent Shaun from Steorn), but this whole circus has shown to me the reality of Rossi and his effect. It is quite evident for so many different reasons that Rossi's effect has not been substatiated. Every turn of the way there is a red flag with Rossi at this point, I won't list them as to not get FrankWTF's undies in a bunch, but we have all discussed them to death at this point. Keieueueueuue what is your hypocritical reason for being a warrior for the good doctor on a daily basis here?
If you look back at Mary Yugo's posts around the Internet dating back to 2011, you will find that he questioned Rossi's statements at every step of the way. Questioning the existence of of the Lugano test and testers, the 1 MW plant, the U.S. investors (until news of IH's involvement went public), and so forth. M.Y. was wrong each time. Rossi is overly optimistic, and he admits as much. But when he takes a public position on his blog about the existence of something, time tends to reveal its existence, to the surprise and chagrin of many.
Again, please list for me the promises that Rossi has kept that can be substantiated.
substantiated...
Well, I will say this, the word "substantiated" will never be the same for anyone closely following this space. This meme I'm afraid will be with all of us for a very long time to come.
Well, I will say this, the word "substantiated" will never be the same for anyone closely following this space. This meme I'm afraid will be with all of us for a very long time to come.
In the context of the Rossi Effect...I am happy with substantiated, proof, evidence, pick a word any word, I would just love to see SOMETHING out of the good doctor that does not look like snake oil from every single angle. But yes, haha I agree that word will be in the LENR books forever. I am sure it will have a slightly different definition in the library on Planet Rossi than it does here on earth.
Again, please list for me the promises that Rossi has kept that can be substantiated.
1. the SGS Certifictate
2. the US Patent
But that does not proof Andrea Rossis LENR/ECAT claims as reliable, 'cause he failed on simply all other claims.
E.g. "Indipendent tests" including peer reviewed reports, published on major science sites.
I like S. Krivits "Rossi Timeline" very much.
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…iECat/RossiTimeline.shtml
psiram is also a good source of information:
https://www.psiram.com/en/inde…di-Rossi_Energy-Catalyzer
One could mark them as "biased" ...
but at least give a hint about that famous hypno-flowmeter. The knowledgeable people here will surely understand what has taken place . . .
Anyone knowledgeable about flowmeters can tell you a dozen ways to make the answer 10 times too large. It hardly matters which of these methods Rossi used. As I said, read the manual and you too will learn how to get the wrong answer.
