Document: Isotopic Composition of Rossi Fuel Sample (Unverified)

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    Abd, can we take this to mean that you are now on IH's payroll?


    No, we cannot. If that is supposed to be a joke, it isn't funny.


    Journalists and others keep secrets all the time, even though they are not paid. Scientists who peer-review papers, and people like me who copy edit never talk about the papers until they are published, even though no one pays us. When you visit a scientific laboratory, you see lots of work in progress. You should not discuss it because it may be a mistake which the researcher would prefer people not find out about. When you visit an author or film-maker, you see manuscripts and storyboards for projects that will never come to fruition. You should not talk about them without permission.


    Here is the thing, Jed. Dewey straight up acknowledges that his financial interests are aligned with IH. I respect that. Some (including Dewey) have stated that IH is distributing money to players in the LENR space. It is very likely that some of those players are participants on this forum. Those who heavily lean IH are probably more likely to be receiving (or have received) some kind of compensation (e.g., money, stock, other favors) from IH than those who lean Rossi or are neutral. Now, you could say, well Rossi might be paying people too, and trying to influence the space in a similar manner. And while that is a possibility, Rossi has not admitted that (as IH has), and nobody else has claimed having received any compensation from Rossi. I certainly haven't.


    You know as well as me that the LENR space threatens interests. And because of that, people tend to push the discussion one way or the other. And when money gets involved, especially among those who are otherwise thought to be neutral observers in the community, it makes it tough to decipher what is actually happening. That is why I sleuth the way I do: because it seems pretty clear that IH is currying favor and influence with the relatively large pool of investment money at their disposal. If people are going to take positions on this forum, I think they should openly admit or deny whether they have received any money or other compensation from other players in the LENR space.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    Abd, can we take this to mean that you are now on IH's payroll? Or you have received some kind of compensation (e.g., stock, money, etc.) in the present or in the past from IH?


    I have commented on this thread on newvortex. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/g…onversations/messages/783


    There is some evidence and explanation there of why I am "suppressing" comment here.


    So, now, following our dear Andrea's lead, I've been reading quite a bit of his blog lately, my answer to the questions quoted.


    No.
    No.


    I do not intend to answer that question here again. Those who dislike that are welcome to suck eggs.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    I respect that. Some (including Dewey) have stated that IH is distributing money to players in the LENR space.


    Yes, obviously they are. They are paying for research. That's not buying influence; that's paying for research. Paying a professional to do his or her job is not "buying influence." When you pay a doctor, an architect, or an airline pilot to do what they are supposed to do, no one accuses you of corrupting those people.


    Furthermore, keeping a secret is no indication that you are being paid. Many people keep secrets. It is often a professional obligation. Let me reiterate the claim was "Abd, can we take this to mean that you are now on IH's payroll?" where "this" was keeping a secret. No, signing an NDA or keeping a secret in no way implies you are being paid. I will grant it does imply you are cooperating with the organization you signed the NDA with. Everyone knows I am cooperating with Jean-Paul and his journal, and everyone knows I say nothing about upcoming papers, even though I see them many months before they are published. In some cases I practically memorize them. That does not indicate Jean-Paul pays me. Even if he did pay (which I would appreciate) it would not mean I have sold out or he is buying influence. It would mean only that he pays for professional services. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the money.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    Those who dislike that are welcome to suck eggs



    Not sure a comment like that is a good way to advance such a revolutionary science as CF Abd? Perhaps, telling waverers to "suck eggs" is not as bad as "insiders" keeping all these secrets year after year after year, but not by much. :)


    Starting to wonder if CF does not deserve its reputation?

    Quote from Shane D.

    Oh no, now Abd has a secret too! I can not wait until one day I have my very own LENR secret too. Then I will officially be an insider. <img src="https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/wcf/images/smilies/smile.png" alt=":)" />

    Shane, if you want to be an insider, here is how.


    Do your homework, become familiar with the field. Do something visible and useful. How about improving the Wikiversity material on Cold fusion?


    Communicate directly with the scientists in the field. Ask them if you have questions or need help and ask them if they need any help.


    Working with MFMP is a path some are following, but the field is vast and there is much to learn. Write about what you find. Review and revise it or revise your approach as you find what works and what doesn't work. If you have your eyes open and say what you see, and find and think, you will run into opposition. It's normal. Don't lose your balance, you can learn more from opponents than from "friends," often. Which doesn't mean that the opponents are not jerks, just that they will tell us what our friends may not say.


    Sometimes, as well, that jerk turns out to be your best friend. That's fun when it happens.


    I'm looking for people who want to do the work to support LENR research. At this point, IH is providing more financial support than the field has seen in quite a while.


    But this is not about working for IH; rather, this would be about generating and supporting research proposals, nailing down costs and budgets, including obtaining bids, and generally supporting the field, and if it is with me, it would be in connection with Infusion Institute. Right now, there is little or no money for this. Expect that to change rapidly over the next few years. Earlier into the field will be a leg up.


    My first "Insider" reward was being invited to participate in the CMNS Forum (by Ed Storms), and from there I became familiar with most of the major researchers. So when I wrote that this was the first time I had insider information, that was not quite true. Discussions on the CMNS list are private, though Steve Krivit has some source feeding him posts and he not uncommonly publishes them.


    Recently, Steve published a post and I commented on it, and Steve, then, in a private email to the researcher, warned him about talking to me, that I allegedly routinely disclosed private information. So I wrote the list and asked them, and got back a series of nice answers. And at about this time I started to get confidential information from researchers. People are working on projects and are not willing to announce them yet. They trust me.


    From what I'm being told, by people I trust, the field is really starting to move. Professors have graduate students. Labs are being provided. Projects are starting up.


    For me, the project that I saw as the most important possibility in the field, I wrote about it in Current Science last year, is being done, with possibly the best possible participants in the world, with the highest experience, and I'm told it is fully funded. If not, I'll find out, and will work to support further funding.


    This will change the relationship of mainstream science and cold fusion. This is work that was recommended by both U.S. DoE panels, but was never done, so ... isn't it about time?


    So so, from being a college dropout, as I was, as Joshua Cude is fond of pointing out, I've returned to science and made a contribution. One aspect of that work (on heat/helium) had escaped notice, and that aspect, which I found by simply becoming familiar with the material, is going to be tested in that upcoming work. It makes it all easier and more definitive, I expect.


    I'm 72, I have 7 children and 6 grandchildren, and life is great.


    Now, who wants to be a part of the future? I am talking real science, not fuzzy and vague results that can be debated ad nauseum. Let me know. I'm not difficult to find.

    Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    Now, who wants to be a part of the future? I am talking real science, not fuzzy and vague results that can be debated ad nauseum.


    Good post Abd. I can identify with your optimism. And I actually somewhat agree with this last sentence (which clearly refers to Rossi). But I think the blame for the whole IH/Rossi affair must be equally distributed on both IH and Rossi. All that needed to happen is for video surveillance of the fuel being placed into the reactor taken before multiple witnesses at full 30 frames/sec, with video trained on the reactor for the full test at 1 frame/ 5 sec, and video surveillance of the fuel being extracted from the reactor taken before multiple witnesses at full 30 frames/sec, and chain of custody/title carefully preserved from the reactor to the time of providing isotopic analysis.


    Then, openly release this information to the world given the overriding interest held by the public and academia as to whether the e-Cat works as claimed or not. IH and Rossi could make more money beyond their wildest dreams if the results positively demonstrated LENR+, even after disclosure of such information. Arguably, it would put IH and Rossi in an even stronger position.


    But instead, what do we get? Incompetence, apparently, along with "fuzzy and vague results." Sigh.

    Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    One aspect of that work (on heat/helium) had escaped notice


    That's not true. It was widely noted by McKubre and others. Miles is usually given credit for doing groundbreaking research in this. I wrote about his work in 1997.


    You have done some good work on helium, but don't give yourself credit for rediscovering something that no one forgot, or downplayed.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    . . . before multiple witnesses at full 30 frames/sec, and chain of title carefully preserved from the reactor to the time of providing isotopic analysis.


    I don't see how a video would help. You could still mess with the powder sample off camera before doing the analysis, or substitute another sample. For that matter, you can produce a fake analysis. A sheet of paper with numbers you make up.


    Quote from IH Fanboy

    Then, openly release this information to the world given the overriding interest held by the public and academia as to whether the e-Cat works as claimed or not.


    I don't see how it is any business of the rest of the world whether the e-cat works or not. I.H. paid to find out. They announced their findings: it doesn't work. Whether they release details is up to them. Since it does not work, I do not see why it is important. Who cares? It is just a 20 kW electric water heater. Why should there be public or academic interest in that? The only reason people are still interested is because they believe Rossi instead of I.H., and they think there may be something to it. You could dissuade nearly everyone without video evidence or anything so elaborate. Just release the ERV report. If Rossi had done that instead of filing suit, there wouldn't be a dozen true believers still reading his blog.


    It is a shame Rossi or I.H. have not released it. I do not know why I.H. has not. I suppose the lawyers advised them not to, but I have no idea why. I know little about lawsuits.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Just release the ERV report.


    I'm convinced that the ERV report will not resolve the issue given that it is apparently being disputed by IH. So that isn't the path to clarity that the community needs. And I think IH and Rossi do owe something to the broader LENR community at this point, given the attention that they have attracted, and the significant time invested by followers of this space, and should have jointly secured, analyzed, and released isotopic analysis. Why they didn't do that is beyond unbelievable.

    Quote from JedRothwell


    IH Fanboy wrote:


    I'm convinced that the ERV report will not resolve the issue given that it is apparently being disputed by IH.


    Jed wrote:
    I think most readers would agree with I.H. The issue would be resolved in favor of I.H.


    Poorly conducted calorimetry has dogged cold fusion for years. Whether that is the case here is yet to be adjudged by more than you. And while I do give your opinion weight (as I've stated before), we need other eyeballs on it. And even if this did tilt most readers to IH, it still does not resolve the question of whether Rossi's technology represents commercially viable cold fusion. A jointly conducted isotopic analysis by IH and Rossi would--or at least it would get us closer to that understanding. Why didn't they do this?

    Quote from &quot;Jed&quot;

    They are paying for research. That's not buying influence


    Well maybe not directly, but funding certain researchers and their friends is certainly a way to buy loyalty, which indirectly leads to influence.


    And we can be absolutely sure this is what we are watching right here and now ...

    • Official Post

    Just one thing about "Interests".
    people, and apparently Rossi still live in the old wold of innovation between "Us" and "Them".


    in fact if LENR is working for any LENr startup, with solid evidence, it will be good for everybody.


    Industrial Heat have interest aligned with LENR as a whole.
    If Piantelli finally publish results, with solid evidences (like the Airbus LENR Challenge idea), then it will be good for Brillouin, for Lenuco, for IH, and provided Rossi inspire trust even with an imperfect technology, even Rossi.


    Even a layman with no interest in any LENR startup, and even someone with a diversified pension fund having invested partially in green energy, nuke, and fossil energies, but also in real estate, in industry, in car makers, in toy industry, in TV, in Uber, in tesla, in biotech, will get richer because of LENR.
    of course less than those having invested in LENR research, less than the pioneer of industrial applications...
    I suspect that in fact the auto-maker of the future (maybe not of today) will get richer than LENR startups, because like for Internet the benefit will be in the extremities of the chain of value, and because LENR will be like IP routers and optical fibers, only in the core of the revolution.


    Trying to protect the monopoly on one LENR technology is just slowing the awareness and thus making all LENR innovators poorer, even the one jealous of his miraculous invention, and even if it really works and if he have real advance.

    Quote from Eric Walker

    You have convinced yourself of this. Now you should give scientific reasons, so that others can learn.


    I repeat, the scientific reasons to suppose that we cannot enhance natural alpha decays to produce appeciable heat are 2 fold. First of all we cannot add enough energy to overcome the Coulomb barrier. Second we cannot reduce the height and width of the barrier by adding negative charge to the nucleus. The explanation comes from doing the calculation.


    Your approach Eric, is to assume an explanation, and then suggest qualitative ways it might be true. So for example, you cite experimentally observed changes in decay rates, attributed to changes in electron density, as hints that LENR might have a similar mechanism. I dispute this because calculations show that the required enhancements cannot be achieved by any conceivable chemistry.


    Quote from Eric Walker

    There are a lot of assumptions that go into your statement about needing to enhance the alpha decay rate by 20 orders of magnitude to explain LENR. I bet I can bargain that down to a more reasonable number.


    Very well. Why don't you postulate a model which explains heat and helium production (not something trivial like radium decay) from materials that are or might be present? Please calculate how the alpha decay rate can be enhanced by the required amount to produce measurable heat.


    Meanwhile I shall continue to develop a different model (a paper is in progress).

    Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    Now, who wants to be a part of the future? I am talking real science, not fuzzy and vague results that can be debated ad nauseum. Let me know. I'm not difficult to find.


    Yes abd: You try your best to be accepted again...
    But by accusing the people (on google - who cares..) that down voted You after You down voted (together with your alias user Cole) a critic post of your paid comment is bizarre...


    It's more than obvious that your spin-tank is taking money of IH. It's also clear why they - after Dewey's - childish confession - reimbursed You.


    Nobody will believe that You despite, a dozen or more children & grand children.., do not take money for your non scientific, pure polemic writing.


    After Your reappearance Jed too jumped again on the IH bandwagon, what would be no problem, if he would write in a commercial newspaper, but in a so claimed scientific forum we would like to discuss "the real stuff", not about Your paid FUD.


    To my best guess: IH will fade away soon, as nobody will be willing to invest anymore money in a company, whose credibility is sole based on a few, well paid, bloggers...


    To say it again: Truth is the base of any investment - not payed FUD.

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    LENR space threatens interests


    If interests are indeed threatened, and we're thinking of big science / industry interests, aren't these "victims" the very same entities whic have the most to gain from early adoption of a new disruptive technology?


    I find the conspiracy theories, conflict of interest theories etc., rather unconvincing. If there has been opposition to LENR I think the reasons are quite understandable and reflect the natural prudence of the scientific and industrial community. But this is counterbalanced by the enthusiasm, perseverence and personal experience of proponents. We need all perspectives. This is not a religious battle between good and evil, but a democratic expression of different points of view. Having said that I am not enthusiastic about some voluminous posters who seem to be more concerned about pushing the limits to imagination and innuendo rather than scientific facts. A forum should not be a sounding board for self promotion, but a place to teach and learn.

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