Industrial Heat’s Motion to Dismiss Denied in Part, Granted in Part

    Quote from Walker

    I should point out that the days of major profit from the decline of oil prices have come and gone. If you took note in 2013 when Sifferkol and I pointed out the industry and banking moves that were taking place then, you would have made a very healthy profit. But Oil prices are now so low that there is little that can be made off their decline.


    I just read a report that the latest offer for a solarfarm somewhere in Arabia was 2.3 Cents for the kWh generated...
    7.5 MW wind turbines also deliver, at a combined cost, well below 6 Cent offshore - in UK... (Only the last fool of UK planed a nuclear power plant...)


    So what about LENR? Must be damn cheap to have success...

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    So what about LENR? Must be damn cheap to have success...


    I am writing a paper about that. I show that when LENR technology matures about 20 years after introduction, it should be roughly 200 times cheaper than any energy source today. That's with LENR plus existing heat engine technology. A century after introduction with improved heat engines it should be thousands of times cheaper.

    Quote from sifferkoll

    "Fruitcake Adb ul Rahman Lomax" wrote:

    Somewhere in Sifferkoll's life he discovered that if he just got nasty enough, people he did not like would go away. Worked once, and so he applies it, like, forever.


    Quote

    He is an obvious hypocrite.... or more likely, simply insane.

    Yes, I did write that and I'll stand by it, and I provide evidence on newvortex, much more to the point than Sifferkoll's fact-free ravings. Or, more to the point, whatever facts are behind what he writes, they are ripped out of context and highly misleading, and he's smart enough to know that, but has some other agenda. I doubt Rossi is paying him, Rossi is nowhere near enough a fool to do that. But he might allow Sifferkoll to kiss his ring. Have they ever met?


    Quote

    Oh, so now you are my psychiatrist.

    No, thanks, The poor guy. Convey my condolences to him.


    Quote

    Nice of you ... Of course it is not about libel; neither what I or what you write, I'm not accusing you of that, I'm merely stating you are a misarable piece of meat,

    But I'm well-known for being a happy piece of meat, ridiculously happy in spite of conditions that would take others down, or so one might think. What is this "miserable meat" idea, anyway? That's a thing? It takes a person to be "miserable." Who is miserable?


    Quote

    (which is a fact) bringing in people not involved

    Torkel has an odd idea of "fact." Not involved with what, and "people"? That implies multiple people. The one making accusations about multiple people and then mentioning "kids" is Sifferkoll, not me.


    Quote

    and hinting about "syndroms" and sanity ...

    I'm much more direct on newvortex. Yes, it's a "syndrome," but moderation here dislikes that it be mentioned. I mention my own "disorder" on newvortex. So what? These do not themselves constitute insanity, but can create a risk if one believes in the fantasies that can be generated. Those fantasies can be a source of inspiration .... or paranoia and belief in massive conspiracy.


    Quote

    Everyone who has bothered to read your endless contradicting rants about nothing can probably put the pieces together themselves.

    Anyone can join newvortex. However, we do expect some degree of focus on topics. That's liberally applied, unless it isn't. And I'm not the only moderator.... Sifferkoll is simply flopping around making up claims with no substance, which he's been doing on his blog for some time. It's obvious. The only people who believe him are certain Rossi fanatics or trolls.


    Quote

    Now we also knows that you do not hesitate to go all the way and bring in friends family kids or whatever if it suits your agenda ...

    Again, no mention has been made of "family" or "kids' and maybe one friend, about whom nothing bad was said and if she was upset about it, maybe it was a bad idea to put money in a public corporation that lists shareholders. Her being a shareholder creates a possible conflict of interest to be disclosed, if one is concerned about that. I'm not, and ordinarily this would have not been worth mentioning, but Torkel has been going on and on about others and their supposed motivations to lie and and deceive and it occurred to me that maybe he was more like the people he was criticizing than they were. Maybe he was acting out of his own self-interest. And, in fact, he more or less admits that in this sequence. Thanks. Mission accomplished. Torkel cannot be trusted on fact, not that he comes up with much. What he does is invent conspiracies that appeal to a certain mindset. Mats Lewan warned him about it, but then still entertained some of the ideas. Let them run a song and dance on his own blog. Too bad.


    Quote

    So please FUD off Abd and go back discus the magic numbers of the Qur'an or some other idiotic subject that interests you

    I have not written, ever, on "magic numbers" in the Qur'an, but did write about certain claims about letter and word counts in the Book, and what I wrote was considered important by Martin Gardner -- who was one of my childhood inspirations -- who quoted me. It was considered important enough by believers in the idea that an entire book was written to refute it. What a waste! Torkel must have tried to dig up some dirt.


    I have been attacked by fanatics and defenders of abuse for many years, it's nothing new for me to encounter response like that of Sifferkoll.


    Quote

    and gives you millions of pagevies [page views] among the "rightminded".

    No, more or less ordinary people, as far as I know. Quora doesn't tell you who is reading your stuff, but I can see upvotes, and these are some of the best writers on the planet. Planet Earth, that is. Many people choose to follow my contributions there every day. It is approaching a thousand, and that has grown rapidly. This is not particularly large, by the way, as Quora goes. Ah, the world is vast. My favorite writer there has, I just looked, almost 35 million page views, accumulating at 2.4 million per month. She has over 37,000 followers, and when I look at her profile page, I'm happy to see, at the top, "Follows you."


    Quote

    Come to think of it, maybe you would like the "mad dog" epithet as well - it would suit you belief system ..

    I would be honored. Is there an official registry? The cool thing about being a "mad dog" is that I can do absolutely anything I want. I can howl at the moon. I can bite people I don't like. I can even bite people I like! And barking is so much fun!


    However, in person, I'm much more likely to be talking down a mad dog. Have you ever seen people actually foaming at the mouth? I have. Do you know how to calm them, how to disappear the upset? I've done it many times, with people who were raving, angry, as upset as possible. What it takes, though, is not amenable to sane instruction. I had to be crazy to do it. That is, in fact, how and why I could succeed. I was not afraid. But this is not the place to write about that. Quora is. It is a place where care and attention to detail are commonly respected and appreciated.


    I bark at people who attack my pack, and sometimes bite them. If you don't like that, don't attack!

    Quote from "Abd"

    I bark at people who attack my pack, and sometimes bite them. If you don't like that, don't attack!


    I wouldn't call it barking... If you talk the way you write, your victim of choice would eventually feel nausea, maybe vomit, and then simply walk away and do something more productive. I guess that could work on mad dogs as well ... There is no doubt in my mind you are a persistent sob, trained by looking yourself in the mirror for a thousand hours!!! (is that insane or what?)

    • Official Post

    Dear @Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax and @sifferkoll (and all of us - I'm not fully innocent)
    please stop personal attack, and even if you can raise problems, avoid circular repetitions and kids language.
    Please when attacked, deescalate.


    We can read under your lines, and any unfair attack is better to answer shortly, and quietly, or simply to ignore.
    People who can be convinced have been convinced.
    Arguments and data already published deserve more to be quickly referenced than repeated again.

    • Official Post

    Sorry not to moderate myself, this is a hard job taken by LENR-Forum mods to which I don't participate seriously. :/
    Since 2012 I have learn to deescalate, fighting against my personality, exploiting my personality. most people have problems, mood, painful zone, to fight against, and to exploit. It is easier to see other's predictable personality than to break your own determinism.
    One good practice is to talk to the lurker, not to the debater. Only a scientist try to convince his peer in a debate. (that is a well known academic joke).
    Another is to flee and calm down outside. This is an advice given to parents with crying babies.

    Quote

    With Rossi's plants now becoming available to customers it is time to start looking at the Industries that will be beneficiaries of LENR.


    Plants becoming available is pure "Rossisays" nonsense. How do you know anything is available from Rossi? Have you discussed this with buyers? Have you seen actual internet ads with prices, specifications and delivery dates? Dates that anyone has actually TESTED?


    Buying a pioneer fusion plant would be a big enticement to run up a company's stock. There is no reason whatever why it should not be public. So please name ONE, just ONE, credible company (not garbage do-nothing organizations like Ampenergo and Hydrofusion run by Rossi cronies) which has actually ORDERED much less received a so-called Rossi megawatt plant? If you can't do that, the whole idea that someone bought anything from Rossi is pure bovine excrement. Far as I know, Rossi's only customer EVER was IH and they are not a customer any more because, as they made very clear, nothing Rossi gave them worked.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    I just read a report that the latest offer for a solarfarm somewhere in Arabia was 2.3 Cents for the kWh generated...
    7.5 MW wind turbines also deliver, at a combined cost, well below 6 Cent offshore - in UK... (Only the last fool of UK planed a nuclear power plant...)


    So what about LENR? Must be damn cheap to have success...


    The exponential drop in price of solar is remarkable. But, solar power is intermittent. That is its primary weakness. So in order to make up for such, you must invest in batteries or some other form of energy storage, which are expensive. It also takes up large spaces. Try to retrofit your car with solar panels, for example. LENR+ would out-advantage solar and wind in nearly every category.

    I notice that Wyttenbach and Sifferkoll predictably disliked my post about Rossi never selling plants. it's easy to check off a dislike. But you don't see them naming customers, do you?!

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    I notice that Wyttenbach and Sifferkoll predictably disliked my post about Rossi never selling plants. it's easy to check off a dislike. But you don't see them naming customers, do you?!


    You just repeat Your fuss to often and it's easier to scroll over when it's going dim...


    We still wait for a substantial post of You!


    bdw. Did You read any papers...??? Or did you feel just a bit honky today?

    Quote from IH Fanboy

    But, solar power is intermittent. That is its primary weakness. So in order to make up for such, you must invest in batteries or some other form of energy storage, which are expensive. It also takes up large spaces.


    You could make up for these problems with batteries, but an even better trick is to find a market niche where these limitations do not matter. That is to say, a market niche where you do not need power when the sun does not shine, and where there is a tremendous amount of space at a low cost. For example, Las Vegas, NV. They need electricity when the sun shines, to operate air-conditioning. They need less power at night or when it is cloudy. There is a great deal of empty land nearby, and there are many roofs exposed to the sun because there are not many trees. So that is where you should put solar PV generation first.


    Quote from IH Fanboy

    LENR+ would out-advantage solar and wind in nearly every category.


    I do not buy the "LENR+" idea, but anyway, LENR would indeed out-advantage all other energy sources. See Table 2.1, p. 23:


    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf


    As I said, in the paper I am working on I show that cold fusion will soon be 200 times cheaper than any other source of energy. This is based on the cost per kilowatt of small heat engines versus large ones and things like solar panels. The energy cost is zero for cold fusion, solar power, wind and hydroelectricity. These sources have different costs for various reasons shown in the table, mainly because of the cost of equipment needed to convert the energy to a useful form, or to store it.

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    How do you know anything is available from Rossi?


    I know that in 2014, nothing was available from Rossi. See: "Prometeon, Srl, Addresses E-Cat Licensee Status."


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014…es-e-cat-licensee-status/


    Abd pointed this out. I wasn't aware of it until yesterday. Rossi has not sold anything to anyone other than I.H. as far as I know. The devices he sold them did not work. (There are multiple devices, according to the Motion to Dismiss.)

    @Wyttenbach


    http://ecat.com/ecat-questions
    When can I get an ECAT ?
    ECAT Questions
    August 20, 2015
    Updated Aug 2015: The ECAT 1 MW currently operates as a Pilot Plant
    gathering useful data to feedback in preparation for the mass production
    which is planned to start late 2016 to early 2017    . The first Pilot
    Plant is undergoing a certification process where certification will be
    finalized in first quarters of 2016.     You can pre-order the ECAT 1 MW for
    Heat generation by filling out the inquiry form on the right.


    ___________________


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…-developing-e-cat-plants/
    [...]
    Andrea Rossi
    July 25, 2016 at 9:33 PM
    Frank Acland [sic]:


    The construction is going on. The difficulty and the improvement are
    generated from the necessity to make a subject that does not need Andrea
    Rossi inside 16- 18 hours per day, and the engineer and the technician
    of IH for 8 hours per day. We need a subject able to work alone, with
    nobody, but a certified operator that has to check tha gauges now and
    again.


    To write this is easy, to imagine that it is not simple is easy too, but
    to understand really the difficulties is impossible for anybody that
    has not lived with the plant, inside the plant, for one year of his own
    life, attending and listening to the plant with his body inside it. The
    problems we had during the year have been multiple, have been resolved
    by our great team because we were there immediately when something was
    gone wrong.


    Now the E-Cat must be able to work alone.


    Warm Regards,


    A.R.


    From Rossi’s response here, it seems that they are engaged in a
    difficult challenge to automate the control and management of a complex
    system. We have very little information about the reasons for the
    interventions they continually made with the original plant, but it
    seems like constant supervision was required to keep the plant
    operational.


    Rossi has said in a previous comment that the early plants will be for “pioneer” customers:


    Andrea Rossi


    July 8, 2016 at 7:31 AM


    Pietro F.:


    That is because our product is not yet ready for a massive market, needs
    more R&D to arrive to that level. Our industrial 1 MW plants are
    still destined to the so called “pioneer customers”, which means
    customers that are aware that the product could have problems and are
    open to tolerate any unforeseen problem that could emerge.


    Warm Regards,
    A.R.


    Taken all from "Rossie says" or from his official web-site (ecat.com)


    ________________________________
    So, what is the current status of the 1MW-Plant?


    A "Pilot plant"?
    A "Pioneer plant"?
    A "Certified plant"?
    A "plant under heavy R&D"?
    A "piloted, pioneer plant in certification process"?
    A "ready to market plant"
    A "already sold to customers plant"?


    Tell me, what is your opinion!


    Sorry, if this sounds offensive, but it is not meant that way.


    I just want to make my point about customers, ready to market plants, robotlines and all that misty stuff surrounding the E-Cat saga.


    - ecat.com is not up to date would be an easy way answer, but I hope you give some more input :)

    Quote from Mary Yugo

    I notice that Wyttenbach and Sifferkoll predictably disliked my post about Rossi never selling plants. it's easy to check off a dislike. But you don't see them naming customers, do you?!


    Mary, you don't think clearly; is it passion or hate that suppresses logic and wisdom? It is hard to tell, but the result is clear.

    Bang99


    What do I see in this? Well I see the potential for a mediated solution to the Rossi v Darden case.


    Quote from bang99

    The difficulty and the improvement are
    generated from the necessity to make a subject that does not need Andrea
    Rossi inside 16- 18 hours per day, and the engineer and the technician
    of IH for 8 hours per day.


    See how Rossi specifically links both his own and IH's expertise as necessary ingredients for success in the current state of development but holds out an olive branch whereby potentially IH will be able to 'successfully validate' the invention and thereby perhaps, release the $89 million when the effect can be replicated by 'third parties' outside a 'Rossi and IH sphere of influence and participation. Very interesting if this is what it means, But who knows, the potential for red herrings I'm afraid is very high.


    But on the other hand if this becomes the status quo (E-cat's made to work from an instruction book) then everyone will be happy and the world will be saved!


    Hmmmmm!!


    Best regards
    Frank

    Axil


    Taking things at face value, which I admit is a novelty on this forum, IH have tried to validate the E-cat without success. Maybe they are telling the truth. Maybe Rossi can make it work for the purposes of validation by Penon, but only under his expertise. This of course is of no use to IH as they are unable to manufacture and market any E-cat's that require Rossi's constant attention.


    So, the only way for Rossi now to reach a 'mediated settlement' is to develop the E-cat technology to such a standard that it can be made to work out of the box by reference to an instruction book. (Well not quite, a certified operator is Rossi's terminology)


    I think this is the 'gauntlet' that IH have thrown down to Rossi and it looks like Rossi may have 'picked it up!


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…-developing-e-cat-plants/


    Best regards
    Frank

    Quote from frankwtu

    Taking things at face value, which I admit is a novelty on this forum, IH have tried to validate the E-cat without success. Maybe they are telling the truth. Maybe Rossi can make it work for the purposes of validation by Penon, but only under his expertise.


    I wish that were the case. That situation would be better. It would leave room for a settlement which would benefit both sides. Alas, that is not what happened. I.H. may have tried to validate the E-cat without success, but that is not what they are arguing about, and it is not what they discuss in their press release or the Motion to Dismiss. They say that Rossi failed to make his own machine work. They say that clearly.


    Experts from I.H. and elsewhere observed the test as it was underway. They made their own measurements. They took steps to confirm heat coming from the pretend customer site next door. They determined that no such heat release occurred and that it would not be possible without killing everyone next door. They determined that Rossi's calorimetry is wrong. They said his "measurements were flawed and the instruments unsuitable," and that is what they meant. They did not mean "we could not produce excess heat." They mean that Rossi did not produce excess heat in his own test. I concur.


    Perhaps they and I are wrong about that, and Rossi did produce heat. But you should not confuse the issue by speculating that I.H. meant something else, rather than what they said in the court document. They said, and they meant, that Rossi's own tests failed.


    Perhaps you think that "maybe Rossi can make it work for the purposes of validation by Penon, but only under his expertise" but you should not ascribe this belief to I.H. They don't think so, and neither do I. They would be insane to settle the case on that basis, or to pay Rossi anything. They said, and I say, Rossi cannot make it work for the purposes of validation by Penon; Penon's analysis is nonsense; and Rossi has no expertise in anything other than putting on a farcical ham-handed attempt at fraud and that fooled no one. The test wasn't close to being right. It wasn't marginal; it wasn't somewhat convincing, yet party questionable. Nope, nothing like that. Everyone I know who observed the actual test or the data from it was appalled. My response after reading the first page was to say: "what is this, a joke?!?"


    The only way the parties could reach a settlement would be for Rossi to demonstrate that the machine works. Or that any of his other machines work. If it actually does work this would be easy to demonstrate. Any expert could arrange a definitive test in a few hours. Heck, I am no expert, but I could do it. Rossi would get $89 million for doing this, so I suppose that if he could do it, he would. The money would be a sure thing, whereas his lawsuit is a crapshoot.

    Quote from frankwtu

    But on the other hand if this becomes the status quo (E-cat's made to work from an instruction book) then everyone will be happy and the world will be saved!


    Frank, there was once a cool guy with a statement starting with "I Have a Dream ..."
    For sure, you know him. I like him, 'cause he's dammed right with that opinion.


    For the "LENR-Dream" it's just the same for me.
    Let it become real.
    There is one person, an entrepreneur, who claims he can make this dream come real.
    But he refuses to make real proof of his claims.
    He pretends on "market will solve it, only a product will make the dream real".


    After following his claims for several years, there is so much of irrational, illogical behaviour, so I highly doubt these claims.
    Rossi does not get tax funding (doesn't want it), only VC invests, no private invest from others, he says so.
    So, please, why does he need the ridiculous tests and this ridiculous blog called "JONP"?
    Why does he need publicity? This gives him no funding in real dollars.


    So I have to say, MY's (and others) statement is damned right for me.
    Please, just one real "indipendent" [sic] test/replication. One, w/o mains power, with an UPS. With dummy run, with proper calibration. I work for a company, who could do this in 4 weeks. Black-boxed, full NDA. No IP-transfer. No problem.
    Doesn't need megawatts for a year. Undisputed 100 Watts for a week is just enough.
    Just an E-Cat LT, no HT, no -X required.


    Again and again, we are going in circles, I'm aware of that, does not solve anything, I know.


    But still:
    I have a dream ! :)

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