[feedquote='E-Cat World','http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/07/26/rossi-on-the-challenges-of-developing-e-cat-plants/']I asked Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics how things were progressing in developing the next generation of low temperature 1MW E-Cat plants (based on their experience with the plant in the 1-year test), and this was his response. Andrea Rossi July 25, 2016 at 9:33 PM Frank Acland: The construction is going […][/feedquote]
Rossi on the Challenges of Developing E-Cat Plants
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Yes, thanks for the link, however, another post, which does nothing more, then putting petrol into fire.
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Incredibly, Acland still believes anything Rossi says. Wow. He'd buy the Brooklyn Bridge if Rossi was selling. Hey, he bought a Steorn Orbo and may be the only person alive to whom one was actually delivered-- and of course did not work, even with Frank's ineptness in testing it.
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Acland has published some very negative material about Rossi's history with his licensees. However, it is all explained away.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/g…onversations/messages/806 refers to an ECatworld discussion in 2014. I see that Yahoogroups suppresses display of quoted material.... The original post is at http://www.e-catworld.com/2014…es-e-cat-licensee-status/ ... then I follow up with discussion at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/g…onversations/messages/810
Rossi screwed his licensees over, and Industrial Heat was blamed. In fact, we now know that the IH license was limited and should not have prevented manufacture and delivery of 1 MW plants elsewhere.
The IH contract was signed in 2012. The IP was to be fully described and delivered to IH in 2013, with the 1 MW plant. That same documentation -- which Rossi owned -- could then have been delivered to any other licensee to arrange local manufacture. IH was making devices by 2014 (for the Lugano test, for example, though that was not a full e-cat, just the power core). If IH was unwilling to provide devices for prototype installations, Rossi would simply hire someone else to do it, given what he was claiming to have in 2012 and later.
Much more likely, it now appears, would be that to get the 1 MW plant to "work," required constant attention. Attention to what?
Consider the Defkalion fiasco. They discovered, we can think, a special sequence to trigger XP. It happened to, instead, trigger flow meter malfunction.
In no way would Rossi allow someone else to run the plant!
If Rossi were to sell individual devices, that could be ganged by anyone, people could build their own 1 MW plant. But that would expose the individual devices to full, independent testing.
Many people, including me, were willing to give Rossi the benefit of the doubt, but, as Darden said in his interview with Macy in 2015, "within reason."
It has gone way beyond the limits of reason. At this point, the default situation is Fraud. Contrary to Sifferkoll FUD, I do not have reliable inside information. I do not know if IH plans to claim fraud.
Rossi has extensively managed Plausible Deniability. Fraudulent claims? What claims? If there is a problem,"it's the ERV, a nuclear engineer. We should doubt a nuclear engineer?"
"So, if he made a mistake, and you relied on it, that's your problem Not-aa mine-a. Hee hee."
Any day now, we will have the IH Answer to Rossi v. Darden.
It is possible to penetrate that smoke screen, but whether or not IH has admissible evidence adequate for that, I don't know. They do not need to show fraud to prevail in Rossi v. Darden, that is a common myth on Planet Rossi. Obviously, though, if they do show fraud, it will blow the suit completely out of the water.
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Basically Rossi is saying his Energy Catalyzer needs him at the controls in order to work. I missed in Rossi's patent, and patent apps, where it says he has to be there when others replicated.
Anyway, I am sure IH can use this in their defense. They can present Rossi's own words as evidence that they, on their own, without his assistance, could not make the patents work for them. That may still leave the GPT to dispute, as that was more predicated on Penons ERV report, or it may knock that one out too...never know.Surprising too Rosi's recent honesty about the 1MWs weaknesses. Going by his posts over the years, it's development seems to be more a regression, than a progression. 4 1/2 years ago it was ready for "mass production", and now painstakingly hand made one by one, only suitable for "pioneer" customers....by which I think he means "only for the brave of heart, and slow witted".
Where before he had the technical control issues figured out, now...well, it is more a manual labor of love! By the way, did he not hire Fabiani...after turning his nose up at NI's assistance, to take care of all that? What in the heck was FF doing during the 1 year test, and before, in that case?
I am pretty sure Rossi's new openness has more to do with the looming court battle, and the risk of lying in this legal environment...maybe with a little advice from his lawyer, than a sudden dose of conscious, no credit deserved. One thing for sure; with these new revelations, no one will buy his units. Not that they would before due the litigation going on, but now...no way!
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Yes, thanks for the link, however, another post, which does nothing more, then putting petrol into fire.
What does this post mean, what is the petrol and what is the fire?
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Incredibly, Acland still believes anything Rossi says. Wow. He'd buy the Brooklyn Bridge if Rossi was selling. Hey, he bought a Steorn Orbo and may be the only person alive to whom one was actually delivered-- and of course did not work, even with Frank's ineptness in testing it.
Maybe your parameters for truth judgement are off target?
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Acland has published some very negative material about Rossi's history with his licensees. However, it is all explained away.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/g…onversations/messages/806 refers to an ECatworld discussion in 2014. I see that Yahoogroups suppresses display of quoted material.... The original post is at http://www.e-catworld.com/2014…es-e-cat-licensee-status/ ... then I follow up with discussion at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/g…onversations/messages/810
Rossi screwed his licensees over, and Industrial Heat was blamed. In fact, we now know that the IH license was limited and should not have prevented manufacture and delivery of 1 MW plants elsewhere.
The IH contract was signed in 2012. The IP was to be fully described and delivered to IH in 2013, with the 1 MW plant. That same documentation -- which Rossi owned -- could then have been delivered to any other licensee to arrange local manufacture. IH was making devices by 2014 (for the Lugano test, for example, though that was not a full e-cat, just the power core). If IH was unwilling to provide devices for prototype installations, Rossi would simply hire someone else to do it, given what he was claiming to have in 2012 and later.
Much more likely, it now appears, would be that to get the 1 MW plant to "work," required constant attention. Attention to what?
Consider the Defkalion fiasco. They discovered, we can think, a special sequence to trigger XP. It happened to, instead, trigger flow meter malfunction.
In no way would Rossi allow someone else to run the plant!
If Rossi were to sell individual devices, that could be ganged by anyone, people could build their own 1 MW plant. But that would expose the individual devices to full, independent testing.
Many people, including me, were willing to give Rossi the benefit of the doubt, but, as Darden said in his interview with Macy in 2015, "within reason."
It has gone way beyond the limits of reason. At this point, the default situation is Fraud. Contrary to Sifferkoll FUD, I do not have reliable inside information. I do not know if IH plans to claim fraud.
Rossi has extensively managed Plausible Deniability. Fraudulent claims? What claims? If there is a problem,"it's the ERV, a nuclear engineer. We should doubt a nuclear engineer?"
"So, if he made a mistake, and you relied on it, that's your problem Not-aa mine-a. Hee hee."
Any day now, we will have the IH Answer to Rossi v. Darden.
It is possible to penetrate that smoke screen, but whether or not IH has admissible evidence adequate for that, I don't know. They do not need to show fraud to prevail in Rossi v. Darden, that is a common myth on Planet Rossi. Obviously, though, if they do show fraud, it will blow the suit completely out of the water.
IH was in a pickle. They were in a position that the first plane designers would have been in if asked to replace the pilot in their bi-planes with a fully automated robotic control system.They couldn't get their pilotless designs to work because they needed Rossi to control their reactor minute by minute, second by second.
Rossi would not have spent every waking second inside those shipping containers if he did not have to. Rossi has spent years learning how to keep his cats under control, but IH was faced with a wild cat stampede and couldn't get those headstrong tigers to do what they want them to do. So Sad...
It is possible for the conditions for payment to be met without the completion of a working product to be delivered. Rossi still does not have a working product.
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Rossi has spent years learning how to keep his cats under control, but IH was faced with a wild cat stampede and couldn't get those headstrong tigers to do what they want them to do. So Sad...
That is incorrect. Expert observers from I.H. and elsewhere measured the heat from the 1 MW reactor while Rossi was operating it. They had difficulty doing this because "the equipment is unsuitable and the measurements are flawed" as I.H. puts it. However, they determined that the reactor was not producing any excess heat, and no significant heat was released in the pretend customer site next door. There is nothing to "keep under control." It is a 20 kW electric boiler. Anyone can operate it with as much skill as Rossi does, and whether he is present or absent has no effect on performance. There was no need for him to spend time in the building or the shipping container. He did not do anything there. He did not fool any observer into thinking that the reactor was producing excess heat. -
That is incorrect. Expert observers from I.H. and elsewhere measured the heat from the 1 MW reactor while Rossi was operating it. They had difficulty doing this because "the equipment is unsuitable and the measurements are flawed" as I.H. puts it. However, they determined that the reactor was not producing any excess heat, and no significant heat was released in the pretend customer site next door. There is nothing to "keep under control." It is a 20 kW electric boiler. Anyone can operate it with as much skill as Rossi does, and whether he is present or absent has no effect on performance. There was no need for him to spend time in the building or the shipping container. He did not do anything there. He did not fool any observer into thinking that the reactor was producing excess heat.What you are saying in effect is that Rossi is delusional. That Rossi thinks that he is producing heat but he was not. Why would a sane person working a scam spend a large part of his life imprisoned inside a cell endangering his health, if he know that his efforts were doing nothing.
Rossi must be the most heroic scammer that there ever was to put in so much work to pull off his scam and even worse IH let him do it. Now that is even harder to beleive. Why didn't IH ship Rossi off to the nut house for treatment? IH was so cruel and insensitive to treat an insane man to such abuse.
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What you are saying in effect is that Rossi is delusional.
Not delusional. Fraudulent.That Rossi thinks that he is producing heat but he was not.
I am sure he realizes there is no heat! He had free access the pretend customer site. He knows there is nothing in there but a small radiator. (I.H. also determined that by looking at the roof vents and by various other means.) He removed essential instruments to screw up the calorimetry, and he installed unsuitable instruments. It was a ham-handed attempt to fool people, but it fooled no one. I was not even there, but I can tell from a sample of the data alone that the test was a farce that produced no excess heat.Why would a sane person working a scam spend a large part of his life imprisoned inside a cell endangering his health, if he know that his efforts were doing nothing.
He never endangered his health! That's absurd. A 20 kW electric heater is not a bit dangerous to anyone's health. There was no need for him to be "imprisoned" anywhere. There is no proof that he actually spent a lot of time in the shipping container, but if he did, there was nothing from him to do in there. Electric heaters are quite reliable.So, let me rephase your question: "Why would a sane person working on a scam pretend to spend time in a shipping container?" The answer is: to defraud I.H. of $89 million. He was hoping to bamboozle I.H. Now he is hoping to bamboozle a jury.
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He did not fool any observer into thinking that the reactor was producing excess heat.
Taking your characterization of Rossi's trying to fool people at face value, he was quite successful in fooling IH sufficiently that IH would induce investors to infuse the company with tens of millions of dollars. And he was also quite successful in fooling the ERV with a career of achievements on the line to write a report showing a COP of 50. And hundreds if not thousands of outside observers. Seems like he has fooled quite a few observers. If you believe in the fooling / fraudster theory.
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Why would a sane person working a scam spend a large part of his life imprisoned inside a cell endangering his health, if he know that his efforts were doing nothing.
But....... he WAS doing something all that time in the container.... he wrote volumes on JONP! I always wondered where he got the time! Perhaps we now know!
Sorry! I could not resist! Just a little humor to balance this foray. I do not mean to stir up certain people's dander.
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Not delusional. Fraudulent.
I am sure he realizes there is no heat! He had free access the pretend customer site. He knows there is nothing in there but a small radiator. (I.H. also determined that by looking at the roof vents and by various other means.) He removed essential instruments to screw up the calorimetry, and he installed unsuitable instruments. It was a ham-handed attempt to fool people, but it fooled no one. I was not even there, but I can tell from a sample of the data alone that the test was a farce that produced no excess heat.
He never endangered his health! That's absurd. A 20 kW electric heater is not a bit dangerous to anyone's health. There was no need for him to be "imprisoned" anywhere. There is no proof that he actually spent a lot of time in the shipping container, but if he did, there was nothing from him to do in there. Electric heaters are quite reliable.So, let me rephase your question: "Why would a sane person working on a scam pretend to spend time in a shipping container?" The answer is: to defraud I.H. of $89 million. He was hoping to bamboozle I.H. Now he is hoping to bamboozle a jury.
But way didn't IH say something before Rossi sued IH? What did IH intend to accomplish in the face of that scam? Please tell us what the end game of IH was exclusive of Rossi's lawsuit. This behavior of IH does not seem to be natural.
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Taking your characterization of Rossi's trying to fool people at face value, he was quite successful in fooling IH sufficiently that IH would induce investors to infuse the company with tens of millions of dollars.
It is a mystery. I do not know anything about these previous tests or how he managed to fool I.H. Assuming he did fool them. As I have said, some of his tests around 2011 seem convincing to me. He was not present. Other people provided the equipment, and they got a positive result. I cannot explain this. I do not have enough information to be sure of anything.The only test that I know about in detail was the 1-year test. I am confident that was a farce.
And he was also quite successful in fooling the ERV with a career of achievements on the line to write a report showing a COP of 50.
I doubt that Penon actually believes there was excess heat. I do not think he innocently changed the pressure data to 0.0 bar. I expect he knows there is nothing in the pretend customer site. My guess is that he is in cahoots with Rossi. Either that or he is monumentally stupid.
And hundreds if not thousands of outside observers.
He fooled outsiders only because they know nothing about the test. They are not "observers." Rossi has not allowed them to observe anything. He has revealed no data and nothing about the configuration. The speculation here and at e-catworld is wildly incorrect. It is fantasy, resembling Donald Rumsefeld's ridiculous notions about Bin Laden's secret mountain lair. (Shown here: http://usvsth3m.com/post/93407…llain-style-mountain-lair)If these outsiders could see the ERV report or sample data I expect most of them would understand that he used the wrong kind of flowmeter, and that his other instruments were "unsuitable" and his methods absurd. Only his most fanatical and stupid supporters would still believe him.
I suppose Rossi is hoping that the jury will be made up of gullible, stupid people who do not understand technology.
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Leonardo Corporation bought back licenses (other than IH's of course) from those who wished to sell at cost plus 10%. This was told to me by a former license holder, so probably true. Some still hang onto theirs in the hope it will pay off one day. Quien sabe?
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But way didn't IH say something before Rossi sued IH?
They did say something! They posted a press release on March 10 saying the test failed. Before that, they complained to me and many other people that it was not working.What did IH intend to accomplish in the face of that scam?
Before they realized it was a scam they were hoping it would work so they could make a commercial product out of it.Please tell us what the end game of IH was exclusive of Rossi's lawsuit. This behavior of IH does not seem to be natural.
I do not understand what you mean by "exclusive of Rossi's lawsuit." I.H. Is not responsible for the lawsuit. It was not part of their end game. Their end game all along has been to develop cold fusion, and it still is.I do not see anything unnatural about their behavior.
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Leonardo Corporation bought back licenses (other than IH's of course) from those who wished to sell at cost plus 10%
That is incorrect. They forced their customers to return the licenses, and they did not pay the 10% premium. See: -
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It is a mystery. I do not know anything about these previous tests or how he managed to fool I.H. Assuming he did fool them. As I have said, some of his tests around 2011 seem convincing to me. He was not present. Other people provided the equipment, and they got a positive result. I cannot explain this. I do not have enough information to be sure of anything.
IH must resolve this seeming contradiction. Either IH knew the scam was underway or they did not know the scam was underway. Rossi's reasoning is more believable. It's simple, IH never intended to pay Rossi for the system for whatever reason. APCO needs to work on this question if the PR case is to be made.
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@JedRothwell Aldo P I don't know much about- I'll read the link. But that is not what another license holder has told me, he got his 10% premium, too - and another has been offered it and declined. Maybe they were 'special cases'.
ETA- Not what the link says, Jed
'Finally, to avoid the risk of wasting time and money in a long, unhealthy legal battle, we decided to give up and to accept the buy-back, even because we did not want to have to deal with similar “partners” any more. Regarding the superior price offered, Rossi’s words suggest that we had good profits from the buy-back, while clearly the opposite is true.'
To me this suggests they got their 10%, but were unhappy with it.
