JM Chemical Products is the Key Witness in the Rossi vs. Industrial Heat Case

Quote from Bob

2 more days and we "might" have more factual information. I encourage everyone to be civil and wait!

The deadline for the Answer to be filed is August 5, that's three days. I will probably pick it up on Friday, that day but it is not likely to be on the public docket (on pacermonitor) until Saturday, and sometimes there has been more delay. It could, however, appear at any time. I somewhat expect them to wait until the last day or maybe the day before, because why not? They might think of something else to put in or rethink something that they put in. They might like giving their clients maximum time. On ECW, they claim Jones Day is incompetent for asking for three more days. Which demonstrates the incompetence of the ECW flappers. This was very routine, and given the complexity of the case -- so many defendants! -- quite reasonable and it was completely routine that the request was honored. Annesser could have objected, basic result: making himself look uncollegial. Score one for Annesser in his personal behavior rating before the judge.

I just checked, it's not there. If anyone else wants to monitor the case, PACER accounts require a credit card, and they charge ten cents per page. However, they bill every three months, as I recall, and an account with less than $15 in charges is not billed. It took me some time to figure out how to know if a document was there without incurring a charge. I have the page bookmarked where one requests the document by document number. The pending document would be 29 at this point. When I enter that, I am then asked for a login and can then complete the search. If I get a document does not exist or no-permission error, no charge.... To look at the docket incurs page charges.

Quote from IH Fanboy

We can come to a conclusion that Rossi disagrees with the statement that there was nothing in the customer site. This sets up a clear contradiction with Jed's claim that there was nothing.

If one reads Jed's claim literally. We can be sure there was something there. Air, if nothing else. More to the point, there was likely a heat exchanger there. Jed is commonly imprecise with his language. It's human, he doesn't write with high caution, and commonly uses terms like "idiot." Really, an idiot? That's a specific thing, you know. Wrong! Or one can simply take this as a manner of speech.

There was nothing there means "nothing that actually used a megawatt of power." And that appears to be based on evidence, though Jed cannot produce that evidence, rather he trusts what people whom he trusts told him. And we can take it or leave it. We are likely to know much more when the Answer is filed. The countdown has begun: today is at 3, liftoff is on Friday.

Official countdown clock: 1
Clear the area!
Secure flammable materials!
Emergency response teams, to your stations!
Last edit to this post:
[Klaxons]

Clear emergency channels.

The Industrial Heat Answer thread.

Quote from "Jed"

I have heard there is a wall and a door there, and Rossi is the only one with a key

Witnesses have at least peeked thru the door when it was open briefly and they have seen activities going on in the customer premises. There are also witnesses that have spoken to an engineer employed by the customers, who was supposedly happy with the power recieved. I know you dont like it Jed, but it is for real and IH is doomed. And you're either being viciously played (or handsomly paid). Oh, this goes for Adb as well.

Quote from "Abd"

Official countdown clock: 3

Kind of interesting actually that the "certified idiots" of IH/Apco/JD have chosen August 5 for this... A friday, opening day of the olympics. It'll probably be saturday before the doc reaches us in the blogosphere... They are obviously trying to reduce coverage and divert attention ... Hmmm. I Like it though

Quote from IH Fanboy

Are you suggesting that my comments are not rooted in common sense? How dare you.

My apologies. This post was not meant to one individual. There was a quote within a post and I was replying to both (and all) in a sense. But I do urge common sense!

Obviously no, nor was any such thing suggested. But the photo does show that there is something there, which does appear to be quite large, and which tends to discredit Jed's statement that there was nothing in the customer site.

But a 70' x 10' dragon is also quite large! (humor) but look at the context. First it is not clearly evident that this is a divider and that one can see anything. From descriptions given, the customer site was in another room, solid wall. If so, the photo shows nothing. Even it if did, I believe most would state that Jed's remark was that there was not a "functioning plant" in the site, not that it was an empty void with nothing at all. Even if the wall was not to the ceiling and there was a 70 x 10 container there, it proves nothing. Either way. Remember, I AM stating that the photo shows nothing PRO or CON per subject. It is pretty useless. Other than perhaps the pipes. This does not discredit the intent of Jed's statement. Now if Jed stated that the photo PROVED there was not a plant there, then that would be just as questionable as someone saying it proves there was a plant there.

That misses the point. See comment above.

Not really. Just because there is some container, some shelving, so shadow being cast, does not lend any credit either way! Unless you take Jed's comment as to specifically mean the building was void, a flat floor with nothing what so ever in it. I think it evident that is not what he meant.

Au contraire. I said nothing of belief (why you folks go straight to this every time is beyond me). I referenced a photograph and made a comment to refute Jed's position.

I must ask, is it your belief that the photo shows something or is it definitive proof that something is there? The photo shows definitive proof that there is a red container with an eCat logo on it. The photo does not have definitive proof of where that facility is. It is most people's belief it is in Florida. But that is a belief not fact. So you did reference a photo that has an undisclosed feature that you believe is some physical structure. It is not subjective therefore a belief at this time. I do not mean to pick at minutia here, but it is something we can all do better at.... really thinking about what we think is fact (belief) versus what is established.

Your bias is clear based on your writing. I'm basically a fence-sitter trying to get to the bottom of this. I tend to lean Rossi over IH because of a string of inconsistencies from IH sympathizers. At least Rossi is more or less consistent in his statements (despite him being no saint by all means).

My bias is for truth based upon fact and reason. I want Rossi to have the goods. It would possibly be the greatest gift this world has seen for a long, long time, if ever. However, I do not throw logic and reason out the window. (I am not implying that you do either!) I do hope my bias is clear... that it is towards the truth. Unfortunately, often the truth is not what I want it to be. (Or what others think it ought to be)

We can come to a conclusion that Rossi disagrees with the statement that there was nothing in the customer site. This sets up a clear contradiction with Jed's claim that there was nothing.

Perhaps. If the customer site is only divided by a divider possibly. But the photo is not definitive on that... and again, I think that is not Jed's point.

That Jed's statement that there is nothing there is not correct.

Only if one takes Jed's vernacular statement as absolute, meaning a void, flat floor, nary a chair... but I doubt that is what he meant.

[quote='Bob','https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3543-JM-Chemical-Products-is-the-Key-Witness-in-the-Rossi-vs-Industrial-Heat-Case/?postID=30704#post30704']
With the possible exception of how much heat the two pipes might transport. Other than that, arguing this is like the
blind men trying to describe the elephant in the room. People are only looking at what they WANT it to be!

Display More

I admit we are all running somewhat blind in this whole affair. But we have some bits of information. And we can discern some information from them.

I must post the ending to the elephant parable ...

"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.
....
O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling. Such folk see only one side of a thing.

http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~r…berkeley/258/parable.html

So I clearly state... I do not know what is on the customer site. The photo shows less than the ear of an elephant would! This is not biased for or against Rossi!

Quote from "Jed"

Who were those witnesses? I have not heard from them

OMG! Why would you? Who do you think you are... ??? I guess your work with IH is on a need-to-know basis ...

Quote from "Jed"

How about you? Have you heard from these witnesses?

I've heard enough.

Quote from "Jed"

You can't talk. You are Rossi's lab dog.

No, no. You are thinking about Abd. He's the (mad) dog here. You know, dogs play an important role in his religion...

Jed, "lab dog" or lap dog? Or lab retriever? Voice recognition is fun.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Did anybody investigate about JM Chemicals?

Do they have another branch in Doral?/Florida? They have to pay taxes of all kind?

Or would it be an offense for certain forum members to look into written proof?

Now, where we know the dimension of the steam pipe, thanks to the enhanced photo of @P, we can only imagine what damage true facts can cause...

Display More

I did a bit or internet searching on both JM Chemical, Doral Florida and Miami-Dade county.
I was unable to find any government or legal documents on JM Chemical, J.M. Chemical and a few other variations. The only reference I found at all was a real-estate listing for the address that we all know. But it has no legal application that I am aware of. For that matter, I also searched Leonardo Corp. and could find only the incorporation filing that lists Mr. Johnson as a board member. The same Mr. Johnson stated to be president of JM Chemical. I could find no plant location, tax records etc. but that again, does not prove anything other than Leonardo Corp. is not very "public". This is not a bad thing nor a jab, simply a statement of fact.

I do state that I am not an expert "data searcher" nor that my brief attempts mean anything other than if JM Chemical does exist as a "real company" (with taxes, licenses, employees, etc. etc.) I could not find them. That does NOT mean they do not exist. It does not mean they do exist and that I just cannot find them. It simply means I found no data in regards to them.

I have read a post (I apologize I do not have a link on eCat World) where a person lived close to Doral and drove by the property. He saw a sign (and had a photo I believe) that had JM Chemical on the door. But the building was closed and dark at the time with no evidence of activity. This is proof that someone put a sign on a door that read JM Chemical and that a building exists. It does not tell us anything about what went on inside, if anything.

The pipes might provide some information indeed, but again, we must be cautious. If the pipe were 4 inches instead of 5 inches and someone used 5 inches in calculations, it would be off by 20%. (Depending on the calculation, a magnitude of 20%) Also, if a pipe is 5 inches but made from PVC and thin walled, it would not be rated for steam. etc. So we can look at this photo but only with a very estimated guess and it might prove useful or it might not. Does not hurt to discuss it with open minds.. either way!