JM Chemical Products is the Key Witness in the Rossi vs. Industrial Heat Case

  • [feedquote='E-Cat World','http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/07/30/jm-chemical-products-is-the-key-witness-in-the-rossi-vs-industrial-heat-case/']The Penon ERV report apparently states that the 1MW E-Cat plant ran with an average COP of around 50 for the duration of the 1-year test. From what we have heard from people who say they have connections with Industrial Heat, IH does not dispute that the report states this — however they apparently do […][/feedquote]
  • This is beyond preposterous. Why would Rossi allow someone to use a top secret process to test his plant? It makes no sense whatever! Why would the recipient of the heat from the world's first operational fusion power plant not want their name revealed and all the favorable publicity it would bring? That alone is ridiculous. An anonymous customer and a top secret process used to test a revolutionary new power source which is being sold to industry, has been sold since 2011 and is in exponential demand.


    http://www.e-catworld.com/2011…-of-sales/comment-page-1/


    Oh yeah. That Rossifiction still has a market? Why?

  • just speculation, not crazy, not fact.


    among witness I would like to see :
    - Fabio Penon
    - JM chemical executive (Rossi's attorney, LOL)
    - certified HVAC expert
    - workers on site , including Fabiani
    - Woodford executives, and people having invested in IH and visite the site


    anyway, maybe just few of them are enough to make the (tragic) truth emerge.

  • As explained to me by an attorney, IH may add cross-complaint defendants in order to create stronger, ah, motivation, to testify, either in depositions or in trial. The number of wtiness subpoenas is limited, but any cross-defendant may be required to testify or be found responsible for damages. So this would cover Penon and Johnson, the President of Leonardo and of the Customer.


    (How Planet Rossi allows that blatant conflict to pass while choking on IH and Cherokee having the same address is completely beyond me. The jury would look at "same address" and yawn. Same officers, okay, a bit of attention. But, then a company created just to support the GP test? By Rossi's attorney? Come on, you've got to be kidding! We wouldn't put this in the Movie Plot because it would be unbelievable as something open. Hidden, maybe, discovered by intense sleuthing, but right out where everyone can see?)


    Fabiani is often mentioned by Rossi as an IH employee, which technically he was. But he came from Rossi. Not knowing the history enough, I have no idea if there would be any basis for a cross-complaint against Fabiani. My guess is, no. But he may be subpoenaed as a witness (by either side).


    Woodford, no basis at all. So someone visited a site. Rossi makes a claim about investment, clearly referring to Woodford, but this is fluff. Woodford had zero obligation to Rossi, and IH is very unlikely to do anything that might irritate or offend Woodford. A deposition answering written questions in England is not impossible. There are countless details here, too much to predict without better information.


    This is a game, attempting to predict what will happen. I know where the importance is, with LENR, and it no longer has anything to do with Rossi, unless something changes drastically. If someone believes in Rossi, they could invest in Hydro Fusion, perhaps, as Sifferkoll's friend has. Buying oil industry put contracts shows confidence that Rossi is going to blow the lid off, but ... wouldn't help Rossi.


    @sifferkoll, how about putting some of your own money in, where it could make a difference?

  • AlainCo wrote:
    anyway, maybe just few of them are enough to make the (tragic) truth emerge.


    But you have made up your mind anyway (tragic truth) so what would be the point?

    Entertainment, Frank. And your point? Why do you bother with all this? Alain began seriously following LENR a few years ago, and trusted the Rossi data. Given the lawsuit and what it revealed, so far, he has now come to realize how untrustworthy that all is. Most of us would love to see it all be revealed as a big mistake, a misunderstanding, an eccentric inventor, as described by Mats Lewan. And a real effect.


    Someone who trusted Rossi for a few years is going to experience a let-down, which is exactly what Alain is showing. This has not become a certainty of the unreality of the effect.


    This is reality opening up, and reality is always better than our imagination.


    But when your favorite toy is gone, the world can look like a terrible place for a while. And then the sun comes out, life is sweet, and something else happens, and we move on.


    LENR, the real science, is winning, and this whole affair is showing that.


    It's a bit dramatic, though.

  • Fabiani is often mentioned by Rossi as an IH employee, which technically he was. But he came from Rossi. Not knowing the history enough, I have no idea if there would be any basis for a cross-complaint against Fabiani. My guess is, no. But he may be subpoenaed as a witness (by either side).



    I would certainly expect Fabiani to be called at least as a witness given that he is explicitly mentioned in Rossi's lawsuit as being IH's representative during the test (a misrepresentation according to Dewey Weaver and others).


    Given that Fulvio Fabiani continues to live in a unit owned by Rossi just a couple floors below Rossi's own unit, and that he and Rossi continue to have an ongoing business relationship through USQL LLC, where Rossi is his silent partner through an entity called "Florida Energy Trust", if there was any funny business during the test it's almost certain that Fulvio was complicit.


    I wonder whether there might be an even closer, potentially familial relationship between Fabiani and Rossi given that Rossi appears to have given him an apartment in the same building where he and his in-laws live.

  • Alain


    Entertainment, Frank. And your point? Why do you bother with all this? Alain began seriously following LENR a few years ago, and trusted the Rossi data. Given the lawsuit and what it revealed, so far, he has now come to realize how untrustworthy that all is.


    You said that without moving your lips!


    Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax


    My point?


    My point is this, knowledge of the type we are looking for can only come from objective discovery using scientific principles without pre conceived opinions. I have a great deal of respect for Alain and sympathise with him and his view of Rossi, I don't think any of us can be sure of anything Rossi claims or says. But that is a long way from assuming his guilt, fraud, or simply scientific miscalculation on his part without supporting evidence. Some of course may say they have it, like Jed but for me whilst scepticism is good, it is very difficult to discern scepticism from pseudo scepticism and so the urgent need for objective validation and reproducible and verifiable experiment.


    I await news from Alan on the latest Swedish experiment.


    Best regards
    Frank


  • I started following the eCat saga in 2011. Initially I informed several friends that an Italian inventor had a revolutionary energy device. That he had sold several, (13 according to Rossi) and that he was in talks with Home Depot for distribution in 2012.


    As each big announcement or milestone that Rossi painted, a big disappointment came. Either the stated "certification", which turned out to be nothing or plant sales, always secret and never confirmed or other tests, which were always very questionable.


    After a time, my trust and perceptions changed. I WANTED the eCat story to be true, but no matter how bad I wanted it, common sense was compelling me to rethink what was going on. The same pattern again and again. If one states he is ready for mass production in 2012, in 2016 he certainly would have readily proved that the concept worked. But he has not.


    So now, I do not tell my friends anymore. The ones I did tell occasionally ask me how the new energy device that will save the world is coming? I can only shake my head. ?(


    This story is like a religion. It is often very hard for people to change their religion. It is hard for Catholics to become protestant or protestant to become Catholic. Often they just fall away from the faith completely.
    That is what I have seen following this story. Some are devout "Church of Rossi" while others are devout "eCat Atheist". But most simply walk away after a time, shaking their head in disappointment and frustration.


    A few though, believe LENR at it's core is valid. So why do you ask "what is the point?". It is because if the field is to advance, it needs clarity. Any fraud or scams need to be revealed so real work can move forward. I am not posting this stating that Rossi is a fraud or scammer. I am posting this as one of the "believers" that has turned "doubters" over the years. This question about the eCat needs to be be cleared up. It has ran too long.


    Not cleared up because Rossi could be a fraud and people could boast "I TOLD you so!", but cleared up on the minuscule possibility that Rossi MIGHT ACTUALLY have something. Other researchers seem to be far from power levels needed to be useful. If Rossi has something, we would like to see it proved, done so quickly and without the major circus that is always Rossi.


    If he does not, if he is a fraud, then we would like to see the proper attention turned to the true scientist who are working o the solution. As Jed Rothwell has often said, it does not really matter what power level is 100% demonstrated. Once the effect is highly repeatable, research will flood in and the "COP" will be engineered. (Quote is much paraphrased)


    So what is the point? To press for the truth! Most "doubters" do walk away and you never hear from them. If you look at the names on eCat World from 2011 versus today, I would guess that a big majority of the strong believers were not on the list in 2011. I.E. that many of the "believers" from 2011 have moved on. Would you not say that is "Tragic" as well?


    What is tragic is that the whole question if the "Rossi Effect" is a scam or not is the same today as it was in 2011! It certainly does NOT NEED TO BE!

  • I would certainly expect Fabiani to be called at least as a witness given that he is explicitly mentioned in Rossi's lawsuit as being IH's representative during the test (a misrepresentation according to Dewey Weaver and others).


    Fabiani described himself as an IH employee several times before things went sour. So maybe Dewey forgot FF was on the payroll - at least at the start. I was not aware that others have denied his employment by IH. do you remember who?


    I highly recommend people interested in this field -- and any field where controversy arises -- learn to read synthetically. The goal of synthetic reading is to find understandings of statements that harmonize them.


    Dewey's statement was not linked. But Dewey could readily claim that Fabiani was not "IH"s representative." Rather, the way I understand the story was that Rossi wanted Fabiani there, and asked IH to hire him, which they did. So Fabiani was, then, IH"s employee, but not necessarily their "representative." Here is what Rossi claims in the Complaint:


    Quote

    67. During the Guaranteed Performance Test period, IH and/or IPH engaged and paid two of their representatives, Mr. Barry West and Mr. Fulvio Fabiani, to monitor, maintain, take part in, and report on the operation of the E-Cat Unit being tested.


    68. Throughout the Guaranteed Performance testing period, the results of the test, including measurements and operational status, were routinely reported to DARDEN, VAUGHN, IH and IPH by ROSSI, the ERV and IH/IPH's agents Mr. Fabiani and Mr. West.


    Rossi is implying something that is not necessarily true, that Fabiani was there to "report." Maybe. But it would be as Rossi's known friend, based on their prior relationship, I assume. However, if Fabiani helped Rossi cover up misbehavior, he could be in trouble. I have seen no information indicating that he did. IH may have such "information or belief." If they do, expect to see Fabiani added as a cross-complaint defendant.

  • This question about the eCat needs to be be cleared up. It has ran too long.

    Thanks, Bob. My sense is that IH saw the situation in 2012 and came to that same conclusion. This was far too important to let it sit unresolved. They were starting to invest in LENR (apparently Rossi was not their first investment). They knew the situation, they knew the obvious problems with Rossi's claims. and they decided to find out, and they laid their own money on the line to do that. $11.5 million. A huge amount of money for LENR research, larger than anything seen for quite some time.


    While they did not actually find out, for reasons that become understandable through study of the lawsuit and what is known, with more coming, they did find out that Rossi's claims could not be trusted, and, in addition, for their $11.5 million, they got a license, as a hedge covering the possibility that Rossi pulls an October surprise and actually puts working product on the market. They then become rich, with a small legal problem to deal with that they can easily handle. But they are now continuing what they started, investing in LENR< the science, the people who have been working for years without making outrageous claims, the people who patiently report a few watts even while Rossi is reporting kilowatts. The true heroes, who worked for decades against vituperative opposition, sometimes at major personal cost, developing real science, overcoming obstacles, publishing anyway. And as a result of all that work, we now know that LENR is real, whether or not the Rossi Effect is real, and this is breaking through and breaking out, and Industrial Heat appears to be heavily supporting this transformation, and not with words, but with cash. Real research takes money, and it requires patience. Read the Macy Interview with Darden. He lays it out.

  • Alan - I believe Abd hits the nail on the head (with one clarification/distinction).


    It sounds like all parties would agree that Fulvio Fabiani was technically a "contractor" for IH (Mats reported that Fulvio submitted invoices to IH for payment), which has some differences from an "employee".


    Regardless, as Abd points out, being a contractor (or even an employee) does not necessarily mean that person is approved/recognized to be a "representative" of that company in all circumstances (in this context - just because FF had bills paid by IH does not meant that IH would feel comfortable with FF being the only IH-affiliate with access to/oversight of the test).


    Will see what they say in the next week...

  • He who pays the piper calls the tune. And btw, Abd, maybe you should learn to write synthetically. If something in 'not necessarily true', it is also 'not necessarily a lie'.

    Of course not.


    I use the word "liar" very carefully. What are you talking about, Alan? Did I call something a lie in this sequence?


  • Please read the following link :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015…-e-cat-works-as-promised/


    "When questioned further about when he thinks the E-Cat will hit the market, he said that he could not answer that question because he was not involved in production or marketing decisions, and said his (Fabiani) position was “Chief of R&D under Rossi orders.”" (Fabiani's name listed in parenthesis by me for clarification)


    This was Nov. 2015, well during the test. So if this interview is accurate, Fabaini's own words as to why he was there was to conduct R&D under Rossi's orders. While he did not state anything about the test or reporting to IH, he did state he reported to Rossi.


    One problem of these discussions are that one has to read almost every post to get a complete picture. And then to make that picture accurate, one has to REMEMBER all the posts that have been read. And THEN they need to link all the threads together much like a Spider Web, seeing what truth lies in the middle without prejudice. One cannot obtain a true picture if they only read, remember or give credence to posts that support their position. (Either believers or doubters) And they cannot pick certain sentences out to draw more conclusions than are there.


    It is the same with religions! People pick certain scriptures that support their preconceived beliefs, more than reading the entire text. In many cases, the preconceived belief is MORE important than the truth! So they skip the verses that do not support their beliefs and thus are never able to see the truth.


    Has this Rossi debate become the same? Is there anything that can convince Mary Yugo Rossi is not a fraud? Is there anything that will convince Sifferkol that Rossi is a fraud? Perhaps they both have said their view would change if X,Y,Z happened, but then I highly suspect that X,Y,Z could never be done to their expectations.


    One observation I see regarding opposite beliefs is this : "When one resorts to constant personal belittlement of the opponent, truth has now become of no importance. It has simply become a personal vendetta." I urge everyone here to try to discuss facts and not agenda. We all want the same thing.... the simple truth.

  • Quote

    Not cleared up because Rossi could be a fraud and people could boast "I TOLD you so!", but cleared up on the minuscule possibility that Rossi MIGHT ACTUALLY have something.


    It should be cleared up so Rossi can be punished legally for all the money he took under false pretenses and all the lies he told. Unfortunately, there is no law which covers the time he wasted for so many people and all the damage he did to genuine LENR research.


    If you had really followed the story and had understood how scientific research and method work, in particular double blind experiments, controlled experiments, and calibrations, you would realize that there is absolutely no chance that Rossi has or ever had anything. In order for him to have something, the most improbable set of circumstances would have to be postulated to account for the events which transpired since early 2011 when the first announcements became public. Oh sure, there is always a chance-- just as there is a chance that some day there will be a mutant pig which flies like a bird, a horse with huge gossamer wings, or an honest politician (just joking on that last one).

  • So now, I do not tell my friends anymore. The ones I did tell occasionally ask me how the new energy device that will save the world is coming? I can only shake my head.



    Bob,


    Are you my alter ego? LOLs, I went through the same thing. Got hooked on Rossi almost at once. Love at first "site". Well, not for him actually, but LENR in general as the 2008 "60 Minutes" segment reignited my interest, and then along comes the first commercial LENR capitalist. It all fit in so well!


    Actually posted the articles on my union website, with some (much less than Abds ;) ) commentary. Told my sons of the good news, the world is saved, and kept them informed. That lasted until Rossi's "Nato Colonel", a total fake (MY is right about him BTW...my gosh did I say that? ) came along. Now my sons have learned not to ask about "dads passion", and thankfully I retired so those FO's can not ask: "what ever came of that".


    I predict LENR will need a brave spokesman after this saga ends. It always suffered from lack of a strong public face, although McKubre was good, real good actually...but one guy come on!, and after this, my sympathy for the one that steps forward. :)

  • Quote

    Is there anything that can convince Mary Yugo Rossi is not a fraud?


    Bob, that's a really silly question. All Rossi ever had to do was to submit his ecat for proper and truly independent testing using a well known testing lab, government entity (Sandia, ORNL, CERN, etc,.) or a physics department, acting officially and belonging to a major university. Of course none of that happened. Instead, in classical free energy hoax fashion, Rossi did ever changing experiments, never implemented any of the corrections suggested by competent people (including Jed Rothwell and me), never allowed independent testing in which he was not involved, and got increasingly lower results with time, both in terms out output power and also "COP". Classical hoax properties if there ever were some. Actually, Rossi accidentally allowed some correct testing or was forced into it (links on request) and each time the result showed that the ecat does not work, including the latest determination by IH, who, God knows, has no reason to lie about it since if the ecat did work, they could become billionaires.


    I am quite convinced that many improbable things are real-- neutrinos, subatomic particles, the Higgs Boson, that bacteria are a major cause of peptic ulcers, that smallpox is caused by a virus, and so on-- none of which I discovered on my own or ever actually saw demonstrated.


    The idea that skeptics can't be convinced is the last refuge of the gullible believer.

  • I am quite convinced that many improbable things are real-- neutrinos, subatomic particles, the Higgs Boson, that bacteria are a major cause of peptic ulcers . . .


    The idea that skeptics can't be convinced is the last refuge of the gullible believer.


    I suggest you read the history of what happened when Marshall discovered that H. pylori causes ulcers. Read the real history, not the one shown here, for example, which skips over over the infuriating facts:


    http://www.webmd.com/digestive…ori-helicobacter-pylori#1


    Marshall had to fight for YEARS and YEARS against harsh, mindless, "skeptical" opposition from mainstream doctors and researchers. He had evidence galore, but instead of looking at it, those people denigrated him, denounced him, and tried to destroy him and his career.


    Read it and weep. Look in the mirror. Those people are you. Mindlessly opposed to proven facts, and unwilling to even read the experimental literature, just as you are unwilling to read anything about cold fusion. They are the enemies of science. Read history, and you will see that such people always come out when something new is discovered. I am not talking about vaccination deniers. I mean professional scientists who are the worse enemies of science.


    This happens in business, commerce, movie making, and every other institution as well. It happens in all cultures, and all eras, although some are worse than others. I did not mean to suggest that only science suffers from this sort of thinking.

  • .....
    I am quite convinced that many improbable things are real-- neutrinos, subatomic particles, the Higgs Boson, that bacteria are a major cause of peptic ulcers, that smallpox is caused by a virus, and so on-- none of which I discovered on my own or ever actually saw demonstrated.


    The idea that skeptics can't be convinced is the last refuge of the gullible believer.


    When Galileo first suggested his theory of planetary motion, he was almost burned at the stake. Yet truth won out. When I first heard of Rossi, I was very skeptical, but open minded. Not wanting to jump to conclusions, I did not totally believe him nor did I totally disbelieve. From what true "facts" that were available early on, I really had little to decide on. I only had hearsay, both pro and con. I would hardly consider myself a "gullible believer", but certainly open minded and one who wanted to be optimistic.


    As time went by, facts were more solidified. Remember to me, words from Mary Yugo carry no more weight than words from Rossi, as far as the source. I no absolutely nothing of Mary Yugo and only what others have posted about Rossi.


    So sifting through all the data that I am able to collect, my opinion at this time is that it is highly unlikely that Rossi has anything. Perhaps a very small chance that he has something that he cannot control nor understands. This is hardly the action of a "gullible believer"! I never had nor would have spent a penny on him without more proven facts. That does not prohibit me from following the story with interest and open mind.


    So here we are, of like mind in some ways and yet vastly different in others. It seems that you cannot separate anyone who might give even the slightest possibility, no matter how remote to Rossi from your "hatred" of him. Why else would you lash out, calling me a "gullible believer" when you know absolutely nothing about me, my past or even my current thinking?


    It is true that I know nothing about you as well. Perhaps my statement about what would change your view was taken not as I intended. My point was comparing these forum posts to religion. About how hard it is for one to change. I gave examples from both camps. Wars are fought over religion with no facts at all. There are "Wars" being fought on this forum site now! Why? Cannot facts be discussed without personal insult or vendetta?


    I am not fighting against you. I am not fighting for you. I simply want the truth. If my post about changing was worded badly and thus taken incorrectly, my sincerest apologies. I hope not to fall into the trap of personal vendettas. :thumbup:

  • "Ray
    July 28, 2016 at 9:39 AM


    Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:
    Can you give us the dimensions of the plant of the Customer that used the energy produced for one year by the 1 MW E-Cat ?
    Thank you if you can answer,
    Ray


    Andrea Rossi
    July 28, 2016 at 10:01 AM


    Ray:
    Approximatively:
    length 21 meters ( 70′)
    width 3 meters ( 10′)
    Height 3 meters ( 10′)
    Plus the external ancillary components.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R."


    We have here some very specific information about the customer's equipment that apparently used the energy produced by the 1 MW E-Cat. If you believe this is a blatant lie by Rossi (the existence and approximate dimensions of the customer's equipment), please state here for the record as much.

  • Of course what Rossi is hiding in the Customer location is his alternate universe counterpart who has made a COP 0.02 machine that turns large amounts of waste heat into very little waste heat (in order to save his planet from global warming) by turning Ni62 into Ni58.

  • Thanks, Bob. This is right on point, and sourced. On Planet Rossi imprecations and implications are hurled with no evidence. It also happens on the "other side." So it's nice to see an actual link.



    Clear. The fairly obvious impression is that Fabiani was hired by IH to support Rossi. They also hired West, who may have been expected to report to IH, we don't really know. But that Rossi claim in the Complaint about Fabiani's job was probably standard Rossi creative interpretation. He is making a point that IH surely knew how spectacularly the reactor was working since they had two "representatives" there. So Rossi also calls people who have long been associated with him "independent." In fact, what Rossi alleges in the Complaint on this is irrelevant. It's the kind of argument Rossi is used to making on his blog. He is trying to make his claim look reasonable, and make the Answer and counterclaim, he expects, look unreasonable. In fact, so someone was there to check gauges, put devices together, maybe sweep the floor, so what? It's meaningless. Yes, these people might have seen something suspicious. Or not. I believe they had a work schedule. There were times when Rossi was there alone, as I recall the schedule Rossi gave.


    Quote

    One problem of these discussions are that one has to read almost every post to get a complete picture. And then to make that picture accurate, one has to REMEMBER all the posts that have been read. And THEN they need to link all the threads together much like a Spider Web, seeing what truth lies in the middle. One cannot obtain a true picture if they only read, remember or give credit to posts that support their position. (Either believers or doubters) And they cannot pick certain sentences out to draw more conclusions than are there.


    Plus the discussions are full of fluff, ignorant commentary, pseudoskeptics claiming you are all idiots, believers railing at pseudoskeptics, and on and one.


    One of the worst effects is that stories are created and then repeated and treated as fact, if mentioned by enough "trusted users." This sets up classic information cascades, since "everyone knows" what is being repeated, and someone who questions it is obviously an outsider, troll, agent of the Bad People, or something like that. The volume of data in the blogs is enormous. There is never any summary or development of what is useful, what might be called a consensus report, which reports can also be accompanied by minority reports, so they really can be total "consensus" reports that make access to information and arguments simple. Doing this, however, is an enormous amount of work, and nobody is up for the job, normally.


    And someone who tries to do it may be attacked as "writing too much," "Obviously biased against X," and other claims by people, offended by reading the other side, who only want their own side to be expressed. This happens on all sides.


    Given this, what one can do, coming into the field, is to start to read, but look for sources and check them, and reserve judgment. Reserve it for a long, long time. Eventually, it will be impossible to resist some judgments, and maybe then you know something. If you express it and they start shooting at you, notice who is shooting! If you have scientists shooting at you, it doesn't mean you are wrong, but at this point, a major effort to understand is in order. The real scientists in the field will actually patiently explain, if asked. Bottom line, communicate, when you have something to say, say it, and then listen carefully, and you will learn.


    Quote

    It is the same with religions! People pick certain scriptures that support their preconceived beliefs, more than reading the entire text. In many cases, the preconceived belief is MORE important than the truth! So they skip the verses that do not support their beliefs and thus are never able to see the truth.


    You noticed. Much of what I write on Quora is about this.


    Quote

    Has this Rossi debate become the same? Is there anything that can convince Mary Yugo Rossi is not a fraud? Is there anything that will convince Sifferkol that Rossi is a fraud? Perhaps they both have said their view would change if X,Y,Z happened, but then I highly suspect that X,Y,Z could never be done to their expectations.


    Ontologically, my training is to avoid facile interpretations, conclusions and assessments disguised as facts. Just keep accumulating observations, distinguishing fact from opinion. It's not terribly difficult, it simply takes time. Most people want Answers! And now! So they go for what is easy, which is often either wrong or incomplete. "Rossi fraud" and "Rossi real" are black and white and reality may be something different. Or, of course, he could be a fraud or there could be this massive conspiracy to make him look like one.


    But one of the oddities here is that Rossi's friends, like Mats Lewan, think that he wants to be seen as a fraud and sets that up -- to confuse competition. So how to navigate this?


    Patience is necessary!


    Quote

    One observation of opposite beliefs is this : "When one resorts to constant personal belittlement of the opponent, truth has now become of no importance. It has simply become a personal vendetta."

    Yes, it's a sign. But I have been involved with on-line discussion since the 1980s and sometimes people are triggered, they get upset and they often start flaming "enemies." It actually says little about their original position, because people can be defensively triggered around what is true.


    When I call certain people "trolls" here, it is about clearly identifiable and identified behavior, repeated. It does not mean that they are wrong (and it is not an ad-hominem argument for that reason, even though it is "about the person," as would all behavioral issues. but trolls are often "not even wrong," to take the phrase from Sagan [Wolfgang Pauli]. Trolling is about poking others to get a rise out of them, about argument for the sake of argument, not for clarification and learning and communication.


    Planet Rossi is in a panic, I think. Their very existence (i.e, the community identity) is threatened, and under such conditions, it is normal to try to find people to blame. Very common and very understandable. And, again, it doesn't mean that they are wrong, but that brain function is operating out of the amygdala, not the cerebral cortex, which becomes limited to serving the survival, proving that the danger is real, and figuring out how to defeat the enemy and convince the rest of the world to attack them.


    [Thanks to Alan Smith for correcting the source of the phrase, "not even wrong."]

  • ...... often "not even wrong," to take the phraase from Sagan.


    The phrase "not even wrong" describes any argument that purports to be scientific but fails at some fundamental level, usually in that it contains a terminal logical fallacy or it cannot be falsified by experiment (i.e. tested with the possibility of being rejected), or cannot be used to make predictions about the natural world. Generally attributed to theoretical physicist Wolfgang Pauli, who was known for his colorful objections to incorrect or sloppy thinking

  • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax


    Fabaini's own words as to why he was there was to conduct R&D under Rossi's orders.


    So he would be the best persons to pass on the IP and all the support necessary to build and operate an E-cat without Rossi's involvement, to his paymasters then.


    In fact, so someone was there to check gauges, put devices together, maybe sweep the floor, so what? It's meaningless.


    I think that statement will be impossible to prove in court.


    brain function is operating out of the amygdala, not the cerebral cortex


    You seem to be an expert on that!




    Best regards
    Frank

  • In his interview, Fabian stated that Rossi fully controlled the powder.
    So it seems he cannot transfer the key IP about the powder, and IH have build the rest of the reactor.
    https://animpossibleinvention.…u-people-wouldnt-believe/



    I don’t have knowledge on the reaction because the formula is not my concern. When it is time, Rossi makes his mixtures according to his formulas, puts the charge in the cores and gives me the complete cores. A reactor is composed of a core, an excitation system, and a system for heat exchange. I look after the excitation system and the system for heat exchange, and also the physical realization of the core. But the core must be filled with the mixture of powders that Rossi from time to time recalibrates in function of the effect that he wants to achieve.


  • Abd, Jed, nobody?