The Industrial Heat Answer

  • Quote from "Abd ul la"

    There is no significant evidence at all of APCO involvement.


    BS Abd! Brian McLaughlin (Apco DC office, cc'd in the mail) was mentioned as visiting the plant with Darden prior to the activation of Mr. "DoD" Murray in ex. 19, ie as early as July 2015 when it became obvious the plant was producing industrial scale COP~50. Apco i seriously involved. No doubt. And Apco always works in the interest of the establishment. And are professional astroturfers - ie. they invented it to sell tobacco as healthy ... They are professional douchebags, and IH hires them. Go figure.

    Edited once, last by sifferkoll ().

  • Rossi is getting more and more shrill. This may end badly for his mental and emotional health.

  • Quote

    That said, I still think IH have an improved version of the E-cat that they now claim as their own. The evidence for that is also quite apparent.


    IH have a Court process in front of them with Discovery. they have said they cannot get Rossi's stuff to work. At all. If they have something based on his technology that does work this will come out and "equitable conduct" or whatever will mean that therefore they lose. So since they appear well legally advised I think it highly unlikley they have what you claim.


    In addition, I have seen no evidence for your speculation that they have a working improved version of ecat.

    • Official Post

    I have seen no evidence for your speculation that they have a working improved version of ecat.


    Well, neither has anyone else currently posting here, since what happens in North Carolina stays in North Carolina. But persistent rumors have circulated since 2014 (or thereabouts) that to quote one observer 'everything was peachy' with IH and Rossi and working Ecats made without his physical input were being tested - tests which involved at least one melt-down and one good performer.


    My own suspicion (and it is no more than that) is that E-Cat works, but that IH feel that both its reliability and performance don't live up to what they imagined, or what AR claimed. In other words, they have been 'short-changed'. But now it has come to this sorry state of affairs, their thirst for revenge will -in all probablity - seriously damage Rossi and this co-workers in Miami. We ain't seen nuthin' yet.

  • Quote

    But persistent rumors have circulated since 2014 (or thereabouts) that to quote one observer 'everything was peachy' with IH and Rossi and working Ecats made without his physical input were being tested - tests which involved at least one melt-down and one good performer.


    My understanding is that until doubts started (TCs paper which drew together existing internet criticism and made it difficult to ignore) they were convinced by Lugano and the test methodology used there - which would give good performance rather easily! And melt-down as you know is characteristic of these systems and does not prove LENR.


    Quote

    My own suspicion (and it is no more than that) is that E-Cat works, but that IH feel that both its reliability and performance don't live up to what they imagined, or what AR claimed.


    the reason for not supposing this is twofold:
    (1) if it worked, regardless of reliability, it would be immensely valuable. IH would be fools not to raise £89M to have a better (though maybe still not perfect) legal claim to any IP. Given the evidence they would have raising that money would be trivial.


    (2) If the device worked but was unreliable they would be foolish to say, as they have done, that they never managed to observe excess heat from e-cats. Whatever was will come out in Court under penalty of perjury for false statements. Rossi will know, via Fabiani, if these things were actually working for real, even if unreliable.


    So you are left with:
    Rossi is stupid suing IH
    or
    IH are stupid not paying up and/or making false claims


    Guess which I think more likely

  • Quote from IHFB

    IH also have some coming clean to do. At what point did they realize the JMC situation was a ploy? Certainly it should not have been any later than July 1, 2015 (the date of the "Johnson Matthew" letterhead). Is video going to surface that shows Darden meeting with potential investors at the 1 MW plant after this date? Why didn't they publicly distance themselves from Rossi at that time in a "noisy withdrawal" from the relationship?


    A good date for when IH reached a "tipping point" in their suspicions would maybe be when they hired Joseph (I said James in some previous posts, apologies) Murray as VP i/c testing to get some decent in-house independent technical input. Until then they might have felt that Fabiani and low-powered minions were enough?


    If I remember right the documents say that was April 2015ish.


    Tom

  • Is video going to surface that shows Darden meeting with potential investors at the 1 MW plant after this date?

    Maybe. However, it's meaningless. If I were Woodford, I'd want to see this "1 MW Plant." And IH could arrange it, in theory. In fact, by July, Rossi had shut down visitors. He had a mission, the "test."


    Rossi seems to have been legally clueless, with no concept of legal obligations, It is likely this that got him in trouble in Italy. The Guaranteed Performance Test required several things:


    1. The reactor sold to IH and delivered in 2013.
    2. A test within a certain time, later postponed by amendment, the amendment never actually signed, a real whopper of an error. Rossi could claim estoppel on this, though.
    3. The written consent of all parties to the actual time of commencement (as provided in the amendment)
    4. An ERV agreed by the parties.
    5. Actual operation of the plant under ERV supervision.
    6. An ERV report confirming operation according to certain standards, triggering a payment of $89 million to Rossi.


    Rossi seems to have thought that if he set up all of these but number 3, it would then be a GPT. So he created the actual operation, in Florida, where he could control it, by representing it as a sale of power to a customer. That the customer was fake is almost a detail, except that it demonstrates a willingness to be highly deceptive.


    I was at first skeptical of the IH claim of failure to meet GPT conditions. However, I also was aware that IH conduct might negate the estoppel argument. What has now been shown is that IH's non-consent was real. They consented to a use of the power plant, and they cooperated with Penon, or attempted to. But they never consented to this as the GPT. Had they done so, first of all, they would probably not have allowed this in Florida. They were apparently ready to test in North Carolina if Rossi had consented. He refused to consent, so, fine. No GPT yet. They were in no rush to pay $89 million!


    That operation was not represented as the GPT. It was represented as a sale of power, and then, if power was being sold, measuring that power would be a part of it, and Rossi wanted Penon to be the one to measure it, or to confirm the measurements. So there was some acceptance, but not of this as the GPT. And that then explains why they were not as insistent as many have thought they should have been ... for a test on which $89 million was hanging. But it wasn't that test!


    I am now in a position to predict the outcome of Rossi v. Darden. The Rossi claims will be dismissed, either through Summary Judgment before trial, inadequate evidence of estoppel being presented, or at trial. Total loss by Rossi. As to the counterclaims, that's tougher. I think a settlement is possible, even likely for Johnson. Johnson has bigger worries now than fighting the lawsuit. There is a possibility of criminal prosecution and a possibility of action against his license to practice law.


    If it is dismissed by Summary Judgment, it could be on the basis that the contract was not breached by IH, because the GPT has never happened. This completely avoids the complex issues of the actual device performance. Rather, because the IH motion to dismiss count 1 based on the technical problem of no signatures failed (as was not unexpected), they do need to set up separate defenses in case the finding is that this was the GPT. Then they go for fraud, and the evidence reeks of fraud.


    Dewey was right. "You gonna be sorry!"

  • [quote THH"]A good date for when IH reached a "tipping point" in their suspicions would maybe be when they hired Joseph[/quote]


    It was in July 2015, after the first stellar quarterly report was released by Penon. And it was about the time when they tried to pay Rossi off with some millions but refused to sell the LA back for $11M. It was also shortly after Darden visited the plant together with APCO operative Brian McLaughlin (ex.19).


    So, yes. This was the tipping point. But it came along because the GPT turned out to be too good... not the other way around.


    Minor edit to remove mention of he who must not be mentioned.Alan.

  • A good date for when IH reached a "tipping point" in their suspicions would maybe be when they hired Joseph (I said James in some previous posts, apologies) Murray as VP i/c testing to get some decent in-house independent technical input. Until then they might have felt that Fabiani and low-powered minions were enough?


    If Industrial Heat was not "suspicious" before signing the Agreement in 2012, they were idiots. They were not idiots. They knew there was a possibility of Rossi fraud, nearly everyone in the LENR field knew that, knew that Rossi was avoiding independent confirmation.


    Rossi was not their first investment. They were not naive. They saw a situation, they saw what was required, and they did it. Frankly, I never thought of this, but I didn't have the money to invest. In hindsight, what they did was completely brilliant.


    As the Doral installation was not the GPT, they were casual about it. They already knew there were problems, they couldn't confirm the Lugano results, none of their independent testing showed excess energy. But maybe Rossi was withholding a secret, and he would somehow make the Doral plant work. So they allowed it. And with a "customer" being willing to pay for power and actually paying, they got more serious. They hired Murray.


    And then Rossi pulled a Rossi. No, nobody else sees the plant until the test is finished. What test? This was a power installation! Supposedly with full IH access, according to the Terms Sheet.


    Rossi created a tanged web. He would say whatever he needed to say to get people to agree to what he wanted. If needed, he would reject anyone sufficiently skeptical, or even simply wanting to confirm his measurements. (I.e, like Jed, but Jed was not the first, he had been acting like this since something like 2009, pre-announcement). He had to be in control, even though this was the IH reactor, selling power to a customer directly. The real purpose was not what he said, selling power to a real customer, which would then be, supposedly more convincing to investors, it was to set up a GPT and then collect $89 million. And the hell with investors, the *test* was important. The hell with the purpose of the License Agreement, the IP transfer, the "test" was more important. He was too busy to help with IH's own construction and testing of devices, by 2015.


    He's toast, it's just a question of when the toaster pops.

    Edited once, last by Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax ().

    • Official Post


    Let us not overlook the fact that this is just your opinion. As for IH being stupid - they were either stupid to sign, or stupid not to pay - stupid both ways by your logic.

  • Quote from "Abdulla the great FUD master"

    As the Doral installation was not the GPT, they were casual about it.


    Oh, so you are commissioned to push these meme now... ??? (not strange since the whole IH case is dependent on it ...)


    Well then, why did Darden sign the 2nd amendment? The only conclusion is that IH intent was to keep Rossi believing there was a GPT and doing so keeping him in a tight leash.


    Quote from "Apcodulla"

    The real purpose was not what he said, selling power to a real customer, which would then be, supposedly more convincing to investors, it was to set up a GPT and then collect $89 million.


    Ehhh. You have to be either really stupid or really malicious. The purpose was to execute GPT according to the 2nd amendment of the LA. This was as you know signed by both Darden and Rossi. Tell me; if it is as you state, what does that make Darden. Nice guy? Eh?

    Edited once, last by sifferkoll ().

  • For anybody interested, the font used appears to be "Century Schoolbook Bold". It causes the 'w' in 'Matthew' to be slightly detached from the 'e', so the 'w' wasn't photoshopped in as some have suggested.



    http://ufonts.com/fonts/century-schoolbook-bold.html



    That resolves my main question about the Matthey/Matthew issue. That isn't a pre-printed letterhead, but a header of a word processor -- and was most likely either a mishearing or a spelling autocorrect by the person who typed it (Initials ck -- HWJ:ck). And because "Matthew" is much more common it's very easy to miss.


    That was in July, taken off in August. (What about the earlier bills?).


    IMHO that increases the probability that the customer was real and that it was in fact THE JM. (Also the James Bass issue).


    I predict that Johnson will file the identity of the customer and "Director of Engineering" under seal, possibly with checks/bank transfers to identify who paid.

  • In addition, I have seen no evidence for your speculation that they have a working improved version of ecat.


    1) They have filed multiple national and international patent applications naming one of their own as an inventor.
    2) I've questioned Dewey in various ways on this forum and get misdirected answers or silence.
    3) The answer carefully qualifies each statement with the words "direct" [from Rossi], "Rossi's" reactor, and such.
    4) IH sympathizers have stated IH's interest in NiH systems has not waned.
    5) Dewey admits an investment was made in Brilluon, thereby indicating their interest in high-COP NiH systems


    I admit, some is circumstantial evidence, but not all of it.

  • But it wasn't that test!


    Oh please. Are you being serious? So you think IH through the course of business, having received quarter ERV reports, and with all of the publicity surrounding the 1 year 1 MW plant test, never accepted that this was the GPT? And remained silent as to this point so that they could later stick it to Rossi as not being the GPT? If that is the case, then I lose all respect for IH.

  • IH Fanboy wrote:


    5) Dewey admits an investment was made in Brilluon, thereby indicating their interest in high-COP NiH systems


    Dewey did? I feel sure he denied any such investment while in this
    forum. Can you remember where he posted his comment to the contrary?


    Yes, he did state an investment was made in Brilluon, although it might have been Dewey's personal investment rather than IH's. Let me see if I can dig up his statement.

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