The Industrial Heat Answer

Quote from sifferkoll

I do not know what to make of this. Trained in what? Speedwriting.... Maybe the conclusion is that you confess working from inside the establishment, or on behalf of someone who has some unearned privilege to protect. That would explain your actions here I suppose.

The Playground

Quote from sifferkoll

"Apco FUD by Abd" wrote:

This is rediculous. McLaughlin is the same guy cc'd. He is the Apco op. commissioned to run the IH account. He wrote the FUD press release in March. This is what these guys do. He is not curious. He has a goal, which is partly to bill IH but mostly to work according the the Apco network (politicians and bankers) agenda. Remember, this happened shortly after the first quarterly ERV and shortly before the DoD Murray inception. It makes perfect sense.

Sifferkoll is demonstrating that he has no business sense. He is a bundle of conspiracy theories with no understanding of how the real world works.

Yes. McLaughlin is the same guy. I wrote that I considered the evidence conclusive. Sifferkoll tends to run with high inertia-frenzy. He doesn't notice agreement, he assumes disagreement.

Sifferkoll has no knowledge of who wrote the March Press release. He's guessing. McLaughlin may have advised, he might have suggested language, all that. He might even have written it. And he might have done this pro bono and he might have done it for hire. And people like Darden tend to pay people even when they do something pro bono, i.e,. not expecting payment. They live in a very different world from Sifferkoll.

He did not need to see the Plant in Doral in order to do any of the things Sifferkoll imagines. Why? He would have to travel there from Washington, D.C. taking up time that he could be using productively. He had no expert opinion to give on the engineering or calorimetry or any of that. I could imagine that If IH was planning some publicity, he'd look at photos and advise. Really, Sifferkoll has no idea what someone like McLaughlin actually does, with his fantasies about astroturfing and imagining that this has something to do with blogs like the LENR or Rossifan blogs.

What difference did that visit make? Sifferkoll is like Krivit, only much crazier. Anything that can be made to look like dirt is fodder for him. There is no story here, other than an APCO employee who is interested in LENR, or *maybe* has been hired by IH, but for what? For a press release that was widely seen as saying nothing? Maybe. IH might be putting their toe in the water of public communication, though they are highly secretive. I do expect that to change over the next few years, as they have more to report and as wider opportunities open up. Not soon.

None of this writing on blogs, from myself, Jed, Dewey Weaver, or anyone else, other than Rossi himself, will have any impact at all on Rossi v. Darden, in spite of speculation from Planet Rossi that this was designed to influence the judge. That showed a complete misunderstanding of the U.S. legal system.

I'm writing for the LENR community, not IH as such. I've never met them. I assume that I will; I did, apparently, meet Dewey Weaver at ICCF-18 in Missouri, riding the bus to the research fission reactor there -- what fun! -- but I didn't remember him. He remembered me.

Quote from Alan Smith

The foregoing represents a general overview on the law of recording a third party in North Carolina. You should consult experienced legal counsel before undertaking any recording to ensure that you are complying with North Carolina law. And you should be very cautious before making a recording or intercepting a recording when state lines are being crossed.

The law is more complex than Alan imagines. I am not in North Carolina. I was merely pointing out that someone might be recording the conversation. Or might hear it and testify.

I was actually in North Carolina for a time, and there was a meeting there where I pointed out that the leader of an organization had said something on the phone, to me, that was, in fact, a lie. There was another person at this meeting who knew it was a lie, if he'd said it. So the man denied having said that. My ex-wife spoke up. "Yes, he said it, I heard him!" Brave woman, these were fairly nasty people.

What did the friends of this leader say? "He recorded it!" To them, that was equivalent to me being a spy for some agency they considered hostile. However, we had not recorded it. She picked up an extension phone and listened. Their reaction demonstrated what that whole organization was like. They didn't care if he lied, because he was their liar. Rather what they cared about was how to figure out what was wrong with any challenge to their control and power. They were hypocrites. I was glad to find out. No more waste of time with them.

The point was that you don't know if what you said can be proven or not. It is not true that illegally obtained evidence cannot be used. It cannot be asserted by the one who illegally recorded it, generally. But someone else may be able to use it, and the state might be able to use it in a perjury prosecution. And there can be ways to legally record your own conversations. Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Tripp

So, out of curiosity, I checked on the law in North Carolina, where the conversation about "Johnson Matthey" allegedly took place. North Carolina is a "1 party state." If any party to the conversation consents, it may be recorded. So Alan's comment was totally misleading. IH could have recorded everything, it seems. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guid…th-carolina-recording-law

Quote from Shane D.

Would not surprise me in the least if those young smart JD lawyers assigned to the case are getting some good pointers here. Maybe even Rossi's lawyer too.

Thanks. No charge. Pro bono. For either or both.

I am generally discussing what I've been finding with a real lawyer, highly experienced. He tells me my analysis is correct. However, real law is complex and not just a matter of analysis. In my own life, when I've run into legal situations, I will generally do my own research and consult an attorney. Both. I do the same with medical care. Nobody knows their own case or situation like the person himself or herself, but experts are also experts. Having done my own research allows me to understand the experts, and sometimes to ask far better questions. I still have parts of my anatomy that would be gone if I didn't know what questions to ask.

I have also found real lawyers interested, on occasion, in legal theories I have created. I am about to appear in court in Massachusetts testing a legal theory. There is no appeals court decision I could find. At this level, I am simply representing myself. It would cost far too much to hire a lawyer for this. However, if I should not prevail at the first level, I would intend to appeal and would be looking for some level of legal counsel. (the reason would be to establish precedent in the public interest.)

It is one thing to represent myself before and ordinary Superior Court, but quite another before an appeals court. There is a well-known cold fusion personality who has done this. He failed and the reason appears to be lack of skill, even though he is extremely intelligent. If a bit crazy.

This is rich: on E-Cat world, there is a fellow arguing the preposterous about pleadings and perjurty. To prove his claims, he cited a Question on Quora.com. Not an Answer, a Question. Now, as it happens, the top Answer there was quite good and completely correct, and did not support his claim at all. I pointed that out. He's ignored it and keeps making the same claim. Ah, the internet, where one *never* needs to back down on anything.

What was rich is that the author of that request is an attorney, who follows me (as I follow her there). People like Sifferkoll complain about long posts. Real experts like them, if they are cogent and not just incoherent fluff.

This is a continued review of evidence on whether or not the Doral test was the "Guaranteed Performance Test." In the last post, linked below, I presented the claims in the Complaint that led the Judge to consider that this might be established by estoppel, if the claims were true (as the Judge was required to consider at that point). I will here place them in apposition to the same claims in the Answer, and comment.

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

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59. In or around August 2013, the E-Cat Unit was delivered from Fererra,Italy to IH
at its facility in Raleigh, North Carolina, where preparations began for the final Guaranteed Performance Test.

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59. Defendants admit that in August 2013, the E-Cat Unit was delivered to Industrial Heat at its facility in North Carolina. The “E-Cat Unit” is defined in the License Agreement as the “Plant” and is sometimes referred to as the “1 MW E-Cat Unit” or the “1 MW Plant.” The specifications of the E-Cat Unit/Plant are contained in Exhibit C to the License Agreement. Defendants lack sufficient knowledge or information to admit or deny that the E-Cat Unit was delivered from Ferrara, Italy. Defendants deny the remaining allegations in Paragraph 59.

IH is denying that preparations began then for the "final GPT."

Quote

60. As a result of IH's inability or failure to secure an adequate facility in which the Guaranteed Performance test could be completed, and the failure to obtain the requisite regulatory approval to operate the E-Cat Unit, ROSSI and LEONARDO were prevented from commencing the Guaranteed Performance Test as set forth in the License Agreement.

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60. Defendants deny the allegations in Paragraph 60.

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61. Acknowledging their failure to secure an adequate location and authorization for the Guaranteed Performance Test, DARDEN, VAUGHN, IH and IPH informed ROSSI and LEONARDO that the time for the commencement of the Guaranteed Performance Test would not begin to toll until an adequate testing facility had been located, the requisite approvals obtained and the E-Cat Unit delivered to the test location

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61. Defendants deny the allegations in Paragraph 61

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62. In October 2013,IH, ROSSI and LEONARDO executed the Second Amendment to License Agreement ("Second Amendment") which, in relevant part, formally eliminated the requirement that the Guaranteed Performance test period be commenced immediately upon delivery of the plant and instead requiring that the Guaranteed Performance Test period would commence on a date agreed to in writing by the parties. A copy of the Second Amendment is attached hereto as Exhibit "D."

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62. Defendants admit that Industrial Heat and Rossi executed the proposed Second Amendment to the License Agreement (the “Proposed Second Amendment”), which is dated “October __, 2013.” However, the Proposed Second Amendment was not executed by Leonardo, IPH, or AEG. Defendants state that the Proposed Second Amendment speaks for itself, and therefore deny any allegations in Paragraph 62 inconsistent therewith. Defendants admit that a copy of the Proposed Second Amendment is attached to the Complaint as Exhibit D. Defendants deny that the Proposed Second Amendment was valid to amend the License Agreement. In any event, the Proposed Second Amendment addressed the testing of “a six cylinder Hot Cat unit” (the “Six Cylinder Unit”), not the E-Cat Unit that was the subject of the License Agreement and the First Amendment. The Six Cylinder Unit in the Proposed Second Amendment is separate and distinct from the E-Cat Unit or Plant as referenced in the License Agreement, the First Amendment, and the Complaint. Photographs accurately depicting the Six Cylinder Unit are attached hereto as Exhibit 3. The Six Cylinder Unit remains in North Carolina.

This is revealing general Rossi sloppiness. Rossi represented in the Agreement that there would be a 1 MW plant ready to test, the same plant as was the subject of the Validation Test. however, the Validation Test was modified as is described elsewhere and the plant does not appear to me to have been ready -- at all -- for a GPT. By the time of the Second Amendment, then, a new plant was under construction, which IH allowed to be substituted. This was by no means automatic. The Plant to be tested originally was a specific piece of hardware, supposedly not something new and untested. But IH tolerated this variation. IH is continuing to claim that the Second Amendment was invalid, and it is not clear that they ever waived the requirement for all to sign. The argument that they would be bound by it, as having signed it themselves, might prevail, though that makes mincemeat of a major contract provision (requirement that *all parties consent*, which, if not satisfied, could set up later confusion). But there are then additional problems, the largest in my mind being the failure to have a written agreement on the test date.

Rossi did not follow the Second Amerndment, so that it was not signed completely is moot. That incompleteness could have been remedied at any time, by signing it and having Ampenergo sign! Trivial. It could still be done, my opinion, but because it was not followed by Rossi, who seems to be unaware of details and may not have been obtaining or listening to counsel, it's really moot, simply another layer of defense.

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63. Despite IH's and IPH's continued failure to secure an adequate testing facility, ROSSI took it upon himself to locate and secure a location in which to conduct the Guaranteed Performance Test, as well as obtain the requisite regulatory approvals for the operation of the E Cat Unit.

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63. Defendants deny the allegations in Paragraph 63.

This denial is about Rossi's redefinition of what actually happened from installing a plant -- not the same plant as the GPT was intended for, neither the original nor the Second Amendment version -- but a different one, in order to sell power, into an activity intended for the General Performance Test, a very different idea and with differing implications. For the purpose of selling power, to a customer very agreeable with Rossi, there was no need to exercise high caution. $89 million was not hanging on it. The GPT was not mentioned in the Rossi email suggesting the installation, nor in the Terms Sheet, and IH appears to be correct. This was a ruse to set up a phony GPT.

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64. On or before August 13,2014, ROSSI and LEONARDO located a customer in Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the Guaranteed Performance Test and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) per day for the energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test.

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64. Defendants deny that the “test” referenced in Paragraph 64 – meaning the operation of the Plant in Doral, Florida in 2015 and early 2016 – was the “Guaranteed Performance” to be performed under the License Agreement. Defendants deny the allegations in Paragraph 64 as to Plaintiffs locating a customer in Miami, Florida who agreed to allow its facility to be used for a “Guaranteed Performance” test. The company Plaintiffs “located” for the test referenced in Paragraph 64 was a company closely affiliated with Plaintiffs (J.M. Products, Inc.) that had no actual use for the steam produced by the Plant, and thus was not a “customer” for the steam power to be produced by the Plant. Defendants deny the remaining allegations in Paragraph 64.

Well, they did agree to pay up to $1,000 per day, that part is correct, but there was no mention in the proposal by Rossi nor in the Terms Sheet of any "Guaranteed Performance Test." It appears that at this point, Rossi was attempting to create another "masterpiece," where he sets up a GPT without getting their actual consent for it as required.

(continued)

(continued)

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65. Accordingly, on January 28,2015, the ERV prepared and submitted to the parties a proposed test protocol for the Guaranteed Performance Test. After suggesting minor changes to the test protocol, and clarifying other points, DARDEN on behalf of IH and/or IPH agreed to the test protocol prior to the commencement of the Guaranteed Performance Test.

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65. Defendants deny the allegations in Paragraph 65.

I assume that there was some communication between Darden and Penon, likely, but not that Darden agreed to a "test protocol" for a Guaranteed Peformance test to be performed in Doral. In the absence of seeing this document, nothing definitive can be said, but IH is denying the description.

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66. Under the supervision of the ERV, the Guaranteed Performance Test was commenced on or about February 19, 2015, after the ERV had performed a thorough inspection of the E-Cat Unit and installed his monitoring equipment therein.

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66. Defendants deny that the test referenced in Paragraph 66 was the Guaranteed Performance to be performed under the License Agreement. Defendants lack sufficient knowledge or information to admit or deny that Penon performed a thorough inspection of or installed his monitoring equipment on the Plant on February 19, 2015. Defendants deny the remaining allegations in Paragraph 66.

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67. During the Guaranteed Performance Test period, IH and/or IPH engaged and paid two of their representatives, Mr. Barry West and Mr. Fulvio Fabiani, to monitor, maintain, take part in, and report on the operation of the E-Cat Unit being tested.

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67. Defendants admit that Industrial Heat and/or IPH engaged Barry West and Fulvio Fabiani (“Fabiani”) as independent contractors to assist Rossi in operation of the Plant in Florida and caused them to be paid for their services. Defendants deny the remaining in Paragraph 67.

Rossi describes what was going on in Doral as an "E-Cat Unit being tested." That was, in fact, his purpose, what he had in mind. However, what he had convinced IH to do was to install a power plant to sell power to a customer. Not for a test, as such, though obviously it would serve as one, or as a demonstration for investors, perhaps. But not all tests would be a Guaranteed Performance Test, the difference would be a specific agreement to begin such a test, which apparently remained missing.

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68. Throughout the Guaranteed Performance testing period, the results of the test, including measurements and operational status, were routinely reported to DARDEN, VAUGHN, IH and IPH by ROSSI, the ERV and IH/IPH's agents Mr. Fabiani and Mr. West.

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68. Defendants deny the allegations in Paragraph 68

Unless Rossi can show specific actions where Darden et al actually accepted the Doral installation as a "General Performance Test," Rossi's case falls completely flat. The documents we have so far do not show that Rossi represented the Doral installation as intended as a test. Exhibit 16, the Rossi email of July 5, 2014, mentions nothing about any testing at all. It's all about selling power and making money. That email is worth studying if one wants to understand what Rossi was up to. And then the Term Sheet, the actual agreement between IH, Rossi, and Johnson for JMC, also mentions nothing about testing the plant.

Again, studying the Terms Sheet is worthwhile. Comparing it with later events, we can see that the setup was a fraudulent scheme. There was supposedly a need for power by September, but, in fact, the plant did not start operating, we think, until February next. The agreement was for two years, but the operation ceased immediately when the so-called ERV completed the "test." As far as we have seen any evidence, there never was commercial activity. The Terms Sheet requires JMC to monitor and report on plant operation. The reports of power were not actually measurements or monitoring. They were nominal power based on the number of 250 KW "Tigers" in operation, i.e., 3 or 4. In operation according to whom? It's obvious. Andrea Rossi.

I'm amazed at how transparent the scheme turns out to be. Rossi is insane, very likely. High-functioning, able to convince people to trust him. Those who have trusted him have generally been burned. Penon and Fabiani might become fugitives. Johnson is screwed, unless he pulls a rabbit out of the hat. Rossi could disappear as well, leaving Johnson holding the bag. If IH is awarded what could easily be damages here, Rossi is probably personally bankrupt. And all these could face criminal prosecution.

Was there some real power generated? For that matter, was a megawatt generated? Not a megawatt, for reasons that have been well explained. Did Rossi ever have any XE? Maybe. But also maybe not. His early methods of measuring power were unsound.

There is an old story about losing money on every sale but making up for it with volume. Instead of focusing on small e-Cat units that could be ganged for higher power output, that would be cheap to make and use, as well as easy to test, Rossi focused on megawatt plants. IH wanted to make small units that worked. Rossi didn't care about that at all.

Game over.

Quote from "more Abd FUD"

Sifferkoll is demonstrating that he has no business sense .... He is a bundle of conspiracy theories with no understanding of how the real world works. ... . Sifferkoll tends to run with high inertia-frenzy. ... .Sifferkoll has no knowledge ... They live in a very different world from Sifferkoll. ... things Sifferkoll imagines. ... . Really, Sifferkoll has no idea what someone like McLaughlin actually does, with his fantasies about astroturfing and imagining that this has something to do with blogs like the LENR or Rossifan blogs.... Sifferkoll is like Krivit, only much crazier. ... There is no story here, other than an APCO employee who is interested in LENR, or *maybe* has been hired by IH, but for what? .... .... .None of this writing on blogs, from myself, Jed, Dewey Weaver, or anyone else, other than Rossi himself, will have any impact at all on Rossi v. Darden, in spite of speculation from Planet Rossi that this was designed to influence the judge.....I'm writing for the LENR community, not IH as such.

Wow! I seems kind of important for you to call me degrading things, doesnt it?

If anything in this story is fantasy and a conspiracy theory it is the IH CounterFUD. The Apco involvement is real, why are you so furiously trying to downplay it (ie. "there is no story here")? And yes, you may feel like you are writing for the "community", but of course in your limited world view that is equal to the part of it getting peanut funding from IH ... But no, it is not about influencing the judge, it is only about trashing Rossi due to greed (Darden & establishment privileges), envy (IH LENR community) and hate (MaryYugo, Krivit et al). It has been that way since Rossi appeared.

Quote from "Abdulla Analyst"

What did the friends of this leader say? "He recorded it!" To them, that was equivalent to me being a spy for some agency they considered hostile. However, we had not recorded it. She picked up an extension phone and listened. Their reaction demonstrated what that whole organization was like. They didn't care if he lied, because he was their liar. Rather what they cared about was how to figure out what was wrong with any challenge to their control and power. They were hypocrites. I was glad to find out. No more waste of time with them.

This is probably the best analysis so far on what is going on in the IH offices right now...

And you really do spend a lot of energy right now to pitch the "not the GPT" meme on legal technicalities, dont you? As I said before, these actions only show you to of the same miserable dirt as Darden. Your are simply being their liar...

Quote from "Abdulla"

I suspect that Lewan realized he was in over his head.

Well, Mats made som interesting comments on ECW recently not exactly pointing in that direction...

http://www.e-catworld.com/2016…nds-to-rossis-complaints/

Quote from "Mats Lewan"

Nice discussion here. Interesting to see core elements in IH's Answer being pulled apart by people like Engineer 48 and Ged, even though they don't have any direct knowledge of existing evidence from either part. I'm looking forward to seeing this unfold when evidence is presented. To be honest, I don't think it looks good for IH, although I wouldn't underestimate what Jones Day and APCO can obtain.

A few notes:

- The Italian Law mentioned in section 49 in IH's Answer can be found here:http://efficienzaenergetica.ac... – which is an adjustment to this original law on installation and maintenance of heating devices: http://efficienzaenergetica.ac... The law mentions the limit 35kW several times and Rossi's statement, that IH refers to, seems absolutely reasonable to me, knowing Italian society and bureaucracy.

- After the failed HotCat demo on September 6, 2012—the one IH claims that Rossi made failing on purpose—I actually asked myself if it was a pattern, a way for Rossi to get out of deals that he decided he didn't want to make. Here's what I wrote in my book An Impossible Invention (Chapter 18):

"The whole situation was reminiscent of what had happened when the American investor group lost confidence in Rossi after the failed test with the older E-Cat in Bologna, ironically a year earlier to the day. I asked myself again if there was any pattern behind this, if Rossi consciously or unconsciously made sure it ended in discord and distrust."

A few months later I asked Rossi about this and he then vaguely admitted that the failure could be his fault, or maybe not. So I wouldn't be surprised if what IH claims is true. It also seems obvious to me that this part of IH's answer is specifically intended to try to sow discord between Rossi and Hydrofusion, but I really don't think that will work.

BTW, I also remember some calculations showing that using the correct electricity input readings at the September 6, 2012, experiment, there was a small sign of excess heat starting to show up at the very end of the run.

- James A. Bass is the person that people who visited the plant talked to. I don't know more about him.

...

Check comment by wpj below on "preparation of the Ni (rather than Pt) sponges" ...

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About this comment by "WPJ"

Quote from "wpj"

As I have mentioned before, preparation of the Ni (rather than Pt) sponges requires heating a mixture of 50% caustic solution and Ni/Al alloy to leach out the aluminium and leave the Ni sponge. Depending on the type of sponge (fine powder or honeycomb chunks) the mixture requires heating to 90C and maintaining for many hours. Some of the "multiple boil" processes will require repeating this procedure.

Additionally, from what is known, the heat is also used to boil down the aluminate residue solution to make disposal easier.

To be honest, Pt sponge is some rubbish that was put on the letterhead (and subsequently removed) along with the spell check auto correct mistake. Pt CANNOT be handled in an environment such as this as is is an incredible sensitiser (learned all this from a JM person that worked with me).

Additionally, JM controls most of the Pt market and the production costs are not sensitive to energy input; in contrast the Ni based catalysts are. During my efforts to find JB, my contact told me that there is little sponge metal work done by JM in the UK due to energy costs. If true, this could change the economics for JM with regards to this product

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Shhusshhh!! Do not speak the sacred name of the Precious one.

Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer...

Quote from Wyttenbach

If they gave ABD money then APCO is on the downturn...

Right. So who is claiming APCO gave me money? (That is, if APCO gave me money for writing here, it would be crazy, which is what Iv'e been saying.)

Quote from Eric Walker

I would like to commend the moderation on LENR Forum forum for allowing a plurality of voices to weigh in, with relatively little interference, to counter one-sided positions that are advanced from time to time, in contrast to what one hears about other forums. I only wish there would be genuine consideration of the possibility of throwing out those whose only contribution is to be a boor, adding little in the way of substance, and intentionally spiking commentary with personal and religious insults.

I encourage anyone who is having a hard time advancing their argument here and is feeling frustration to go discuss it at E-Cat World.

I agree!
Here is the bottom line... Mr. Lomax posts his reasoning using the actual documents and explains what they mean to him. This does not necessarily make it true, but he is fully showing his logic and what supports it. I appreciate that.

Sifferkol and others, respond with personal insults, innuendo and whining. They do not attempt to take Mr. Lomax's points, compare them to the factual documents and then present a logical counter argument. They simply insult. Such as starting every post with a derogatory title.

The thing that is MOST worthy of head shaking is, they point out that one's opinion is faulty, unreliable and even evil intended. Yet they cling to every word that Rossi speaks as Gospel. It is the inerrant truth! Rossi provides NO facts, only "Rossi Says". Rossi's court filing is regarded at absolute truth because, after all, he filed it in court! Yet IH's court filling is all lies and the creation of the super evil APCO. Even though it is filed in court as well. Look at the blind bias.

Mr. Lomax goes into detail and gets insulted for it. Well, complicated issues take complicated analysis. That is why lawyers spend years in school. Simple minds do not like this. But it is often necessary.

Here is what the believer's believe "It is simple... what ever Rossi states is truth and needs no further investigation." One does not need to look at the details, simply keep the faith. Do not muddy the waters with close scrutiny nor attention to detail. Simply keep the faith. At ECW, if you do not keep the faith, you get excommunicated. That is why "there is not much intelligent discussion there".

My challenge is... "Keep discussions civil. No name calling. No personal insults. No innuendo (religious jabs). Posts should have links to supporting documents or facts. They most certainly can have counter arguments and dissenting points of view, but they should be presented in a mature and adult manner.

Moderators, if people are consistently insulting, lack any substance and are simply trolling, warn them once, warn them twice and then kick them off. After all, any dissenting position gets excommunicated from ECW!

Most are here to discuss and learn, not worship!